Apple has a serious company-wide hardware quality problem

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I made a similar thread not long ago but since then, more new problems have come to light and I think the larger company-wide issue is worth discussing. First, Paul already kind of covered this in early November, check out his article “Apple Admits to Hardware Quality Problems with iPhone X, MacBook Pro” . One thing about the iPad Pro bending issue that most don’t realize is that this is not just a cosmetic issue. Bendy iPhone 6’s resulted in a very serious issue known as ‘touch disease’, which could happen again with these new bendy iPad Pro’s. Next, on the weekend a popular tech YouTuber Unbox Therapy posted a video showing his 2018 MacBook Air also has the keyboard problem, so despite Apple’s attempt to fix this with the silicon cover, this keyboard design is still very flawed. Now today, I just saw The Verge post about a new issue with MacBook Pro’s, “Flexgate”. There’s a pattern here, Apple’s hardware quality has taken a nose dive in recent years. The question is why? Did they lay off some of their hardware testers, just like how Microsoft fired their dedicated software testers? I don’t think there’s been any management changes at Apple that would explain all these hardware quality problems, I would love to hear what others think because this is turning into quite a story. It reminds me of Mercedes quality/reliability decline in the early 2000’s (Mercedes eventually turned it around)

Comments (90)

90 responses to “Apple has a serious company-wide hardware quality problem”

  1. jimchamplin

    It's because the hardware designs are compromised. Apple has this obsession with making things as thin as possible, and at some point that requires compromising your industrial design to achieve greater thinness.


    The keyboard is terrible because it's compromised. It has to be thin, so it's made of tiny delicate bits that break if an atom gets inside of them. The mainboard is disposable because sockets for things like RAM and storage are too thick, and must be excised. Stuck with craptastic USB-C because hey! Thin.


    On the iPad Pro, it's the same thing. There's no real structure to it since that would take up any room at all and that... cannot be had. It must be THIN. Thinner than the last one for no good reason.


    And that's the worst part. There's no good reason for it. Reduced weight? Sure, but that can be done without compromising the quality of the product.

  2. Daishi

    I’m curious, can anyone name a major, high profile hardware manufacturer that hasn’t had a significant quality issue in the past 5 years?

    • warren

      In reply to Daishi:


      Easy -- Lenovo.


      Lenovo has had exactly three recalls in the last 5 years across their whole product line -- laptops and desktops -- two of those recalls covers computers sold in the 2010-2012 time period, and one of them covers the power cord going to the power brick, not the computer itself.


      The relatively current recall is with an unfastened screw on a batch of 80,000 5th gen X1 Carbons. It's a manufacturing defect, not a design defect.


      That's 80,000 computers out of about 60,000,000 sold in 2017.


      What this actually means is that most Lenovo products have had no recalls whatsoever. No rash of failing keyboards, no screen problems, no power supply issues,


      In contrast, Apple has three recalls in the last ONE year, JUST for their laptops. SSD, battery, keyboard. And they're probably going to need to add a fourth recall program for the "flexgate" issue. And then there's "staingate" (anti-reflective coating is wearing off on the displays), which is not under recall, but Apple is quietly replacing displays for anyone who has this problem.

      • Daishi

        In reply to warren:

        So Lenovo in fact has had a significant quality issue in the past five years and, given that that issue involved a potential fire hazard, some might argue that its actually a more serious one than an iPad coming with more than half a mm of curve out of the box.


        Also, strictly speaking, none of the Apple incidents from last year were recalls. They were extended repair programs for acknowledge potential faults. So while Lenovo may have only had three recalls how many similar repair programs might they have had that we would never have heard of for the Ideapad XYZ123?

      • Vladimir Carli

        In reply to warren:


        the main difference from my point of view is that if I have a problem with an apple laptop I go to the apple store and it gets replaced immediately. If I have a problem with a Lenovo laptop, god help me. I have to go to the unknown reseller where I bought it that has absurd return policies. Otherwise, I have to be on a call for one+ hours to convince a random guy in Thailand that who guides me through an absurd checklist and I have to hope to convince him to offer me a return; then I have to ship it and maybe I'll get another one in a few days or weeks (depending on how lucky I am). Even if there is a difference in the likelihood that a product fails, I would still always prefer apple due to their support.

        Having said this, I would like to point out that I recently dropped apple computers but certainly not for the quality problems mentioned above.

        V.

        • warren

          In reply to Vladimir:


          You're missing the point.


          Lenovo laptops aren't especially prone to systemic design problems that require repairs or recalls. They're also designed so that many common incidental problems, such as spilling liquid on the keyboard, won't result in damage to the motherboard underneath. necessitating a repair.


          If you personally have an Apple Store nearby, that's nice for you, but that isn't a valid counterargument to the problem that these devices have a variety of quality problems.



        • wright_is

          In reply to Vladimir:

          On the other hand, over here there aren't any Apple stores in the area. That means contacting the repair service, the device is picked up and taken away for repair, after 2 weeks, the device is returned (hopefully*) repaired.

          With Android phones, my mobile provider will actually bring out a replacement handset and replace the broken one, for free. It then checks the damaged phone, if it is a broken display, I have to pay for a replacement screen, if the damage was "my" fault (E.g. water ingress), I have to pay for the refurbished phone, otherwise the carrier takes the hit. If it is an iPhone, it is as described above, no phone for 2 weeks, whilst Apple try and repair it.

          For my Lenovo laptop, next day, on-site support, worldwide. Try getting that as an option on an Apple device! If I pay extra, I can get a 4 hour call-out service for the Lenovo.

          * My iPhone 3GS failed in under a week (just stopped working, you had to wait for the battery to drain, then it would switch off and you could plug it in, charge it up and start it again. I took it back to T-Mobile, they sent it away for 2 weeks of repairs, returned "no fault found", 1 day later, it stopped working again, returned to T-Mobile, away for 2 weeks of repairs, returned "no fault found", stopped working after 1 hour, returned to T-Mobile, 2 weeks away and finally they found a RAM error and replaced the phone. So, in the first 7 weeks of ownership, the iPhone spent 6 weeks in the repairshop!

  3. StoneJack

    Unlike you and your Verge and Youtube evidence, we have real Apple hardware at home, Macbook Pro 1 unit, Macbook airs 2 units, AppleTV 3 units, 4 iPhones ranging from 5S to XS Max, 4 iPads from Pro to Mini, 3 Apple Watches. Imagine what - everything just works.

    • wright_is

      In reply to StoneJack:

      On the other hand, my boss used to get through at least 3 iPhones a year, until the iPhone 6S. The battery would die after a couple of months, the antennas would stop working. I think he was on his 2nd 3GS when I joined the company, that was replaced again, before the 4 came out, there were 3 of them, 4 4S phones and 3 5 and 5S. They just didn't seemed to be built for use as a phone - he'd make about 6 hours of calls most week days.

      My 3GS laster reasonably well - 5 years. But my iMac was abandoned very early by Apple. It eventually had a motherboard problem and died.

      Does that mean that iPhones are lousy? Not in general, but if I went by my own experience, I'd never touch another iPhone.

    • rob_segal

      In reply to StoneJack:

      You not having issues with Apple hardware doesn't mean a significant number of people are not having problems with their's. People are not making this up. Credible individuals are reporting these problems. Discussions must be had and solutions drawn up.

      • provision l-3

        In reply to rob_segal:

        You are more or less making the same argument as Stonejack. You are taking an individual(s) having issues and drawing a larger conclusion. The fact is that neither you nor Stonejack have a large enough data set to make an evidence back claim.

        • paulc543

          In reply to provision l-3:


          I love the logic here. People acknowledge that there are widespread reports of problems which, taken as a whole, do constitute evidence of these issues. Everyone would also acknowledge that there are plenty of people who aren't experiencing these problems, which is evidence that the issues don't effect everyone.


          And here we have two individuals who are offering first hand reports on either side of the issue. And both these reports are disregarded by the opposing sides as not being a large enough data set to constitute evidence. Even though they both fit in with what is accepted as evidence on either side. So if you're an Apple fan, no amount of reported issues constitutes evidence of anything, since they are all individual reports, and as such, aren't a large enough data set to draw any specific conclusion.


          Just astounding the lengths to which people will strain logic to save their position from threat. Hmmm, could the truth be somewhere in between the extremes? Naaaa....


          As for the ultimate source of the problem, I think it's pretty obvious, and it's twofold:


          On the one hand, people have bought into the idea that thin, light and sleek are of paramount importance. Screens can't be large enough, or the devices themselves thin enough, which has forced the device frames to become every smaller and thinner, and the glass that makes up the screens thinner. At the same time, everyone is such a special snowflake that they need THEIR devices to be premium, and thus made from metal and glass, as opposed to impact resistant plastics. This, despite people replacing their devices on a regular schedule... also part of the special snowflake complex, since they must demonstrate to the rest of the world how special they are by having spent exorbitant amounts of their money on these utterly superfluous things.


          And on the other hand, you have corporations who have dedicated themselves not to making any particular product the best it could be, or serving their customers as best as they could, but to the enrichment of an outside group who bought pieces of paper which constitute an esoteric ownership of said company and who's demand that the company put profits above all else is literally codified in the laws of the land. To serve these masters who care only about their own wealth accumulation, these companies both pray upon their customer's special snowflake complex by producing "revolutionary new" versions each year of the same product they've been selling for, in some cases, two decades or more. Every year, they need to look "better" (aka, more premium, more sleek), be "better" (aka thinner, lighter). And, again, to serve their investor masters, they farm out the manufacturer of these devices to the cheapest place on the planet, to be mass produced by child and near, if not literal, slave labor.


          What a truly wonderful world we live in.

          • wright_is

            In reply to paulc543:

            The other part of the problem, the last part about shareholders, is that they no longer look a longterm investment, with microtrading the whole thing has changed from trying to make a successful company that will still be there in 100 years to raping as much profit out of the company in the next quarter in the hope the pyramid won't collapse before they can sell their shares.

          • provision l-3

            In reply to paulc543:

            "Hmmm, could the truth be somewhere in between the extremes?"

            I'm not sure if you meant this as a serious suggestion or not but on the off chance you did, this is a middle ground fallacy.


            Anyway. I mostly agree with the first part of what you said and it really isn't unique to this situation. People tend to see anecdote as substation for data and the person with the with more anecdotal data wins or something like that. People try to obfuscate that they don't have data with meaningless statements like "widespread reports". The reality is neither side has meaningful data.


            I disagree with your conclusion and it doesn't really seem to follow from the issue as it is very specific. The solution is to get data or acknowledge that you don't actually know. Seems simple enough. I mean it isn't like there are organizations out there that do get a large enough sample size to provide meaningful data (Consumer Reports for example).


            But I guess the problem for either side is that going and looking for data runs the risk of proving your firmly held belief is wrong. Ohhh the funky horror.

    • Paul Thurrott

      In reply to StoneJack:

      Um. To be clear, widespread reports of problems are evidence. But your experience is only anecdotal. So whatever the "truth" is, you don't have it.

    • Tony Barrett

      In reply to StoneJack:

      You have one household with (if I'm correct) 17 Apple devices in it! Holy cow. Did your soul come as part of this signing your life away to Apple too? Do you even look at alternatives when buying kit??

      • StoneJack

        In reply to ghostrider: I bought arguably the best hardware and software consumer combination, which mostly just works. Phones have been great, computers work, software lets me be creative and effective. Yes, it is slighly more expensive - but my time is more expensive :) so I think I made a good deal


  4. minke

    We spend way too much on hardware, and the Apple premium is on top of that. Personally, I can't jump to any conclusion as to whether or not Apple hardware is worse than other hardware, but I personally do not see the value proposition unless you need or want to run Apple's own software. Then it makes sense because you have no alternative. A lot of the premium cost has to do with design that is all about style. Yes, slim and light are nice, but inevitably that leads to less space for components, which are therefore less robust, have less space for cooling, are much harder to fix or replace, etc. Slimness and style are inversely proportional to durability. You want rugged and cheap to maintain get a big old desktop (or put it on the floor) generic PC steel case and purchase robust components that can easily be replaced and upgraded. You can keep that thing going forever and your ongoing costs will be a fraction of any high-end stylish computer.

    • Vladimir Carli

      In reply to Minke:


      Mail on windows is a disaster honestly. I'm absolutely not looking for free stuff. I have an office365 business license but outlook is a gigantic monster, I find it unbearable. I tried thunderbird and the native client. I purchased mailbird and even subscribed to newton mail. They all miss on some basic functionality, they loose e-mails, the search function (on which I rely a lot) works unreliably. The apple client on MacOs is pretty good but there are alternatives like airmail, spark, mailpilot that for inexplicable reasons are not developed for windows.

      Regarding other apps, I deeply miss pixelmator, alfred and some apps of the Omni group, again poor alternatives for windows. Moreover there are missing features in the OS which I don't understand why they are not added to windows. Something like quickview should not be too difficult to implement. On windows there is no easy way to edit PDF files, things like deleting pages or copy-pasting pages between documents require external applications that are expensive and clumsy.

      If we speak about tablet mode, I can't find even one app that is decent, I really wonder how many people use windows computers in tablet mode. That's depressing considering that some 2-1 are really nice pieces of hardware from every single point of view.


      Having said all this, I switched to PC due to the steep decrease in hardware quality of the macbooks. My computers are my main working tool and I don't mind spending 3-4k dollars every five years on one but it's unacceptable to have a terrible keyboard and lacking a touchscreen. It's amazing to me that even if you want to spend thousands of dollars on a laptop you can't get one with a good keyboard. The problem is that I feel forced between bad hardware and bad software.

      V.

      • curtisspendlove

        In reply to Vladimir:

        There really isn’t much native (“win32”) software being developed for Windows anymore. Microsoft does a pretty good job of building out their office suite.


        But out there aren’t a lot of independent software devs writing windows applications anymore. The ones that do are basically maintaining older apps.


        It is my understanding that most Windows users aren’t paying the kinds of prices that can sustain a small dev shop. Also, just based on development tech, it makes a lot more sense to build out web based solutions.


        That said, I think a company could do an “OmniGroup” style productivity suite...perhaps as a subscription offering. Not sure what the Windows consumerbase / business base would accept. I think Microsoft still pretty much has the business productivity market cornered.


        :: shrug ::

    • Vladimir Carli

      In reply to Minke:


      I completely agree with you in preferring a big desktop that can be easily upgraded and can last forever. However, the big problem is that the apple software and ecosystem is much better than anything else, today. It's what is driving apple sales and it's not only apple's own software. There was a time when using macOS you were lacking software that existed only for windows. Now it's the other way around, I'm desperately insisting on using windows but I can't find a decent email client!

      And we should not even mention iOS, did you ever try to use a windows tablet and feel how much the experience sucks?

      V.

  5. Bdsrev

    Paul or Brad, I wish you would write about this, Apple is getting away with murder when you consider the prices they charge for these products, it's just not right or fair, the mainstream tech press is giving them a pass.

    • Paul Thurrott

      In reply to Bdsrev:

      Seriously? :) I/we write about this all the time. A few examples:


      https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/192231/its-not-just-microsoft


      https://www.thurrott.com/apple/201601/apple-quietly-fixed-the-macbook-pros-flexgate-problem-in-newer-models


      https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/ios/170235/oops-apple-has-another-quality-problem


      https://www.thurrott.com/apple/191172/apple-admits-to-hardware-quality-problems-with-iphone-x-macbook-pro


      Also, let's not forget https://www.thurrott.com/apple/190122/apple-jacked


  6. wp7mango

    For me, the issue is not that Apple has many quality problems, because they clearly do, as do many other companies. However, the main issue for me is that Apple themselves seem to pretend that these problems don't exist. It's their attitude that really sucks, and that's far more damaging in my opinion.

    • Tony Barrett

      In reply to WP7Mango:

      Apple are so wrapped up in their own self-importance with an ego to match, I'm sure they actually don't believe these problems exist, and that their customers don't care either. As long as they're holding the latest idevice in their hands, they'll put up with whatever Apple put out - because it's Apple after all!

  7. james_b

    Check out Louis Rossman's YT channel. He runs an Apple repair shop in New York. There most definitely "IS" a quality problem with Apple hardware. A man working with their hardware now for many years can give specific examples. Just check it out.

  8. jltuv

    Apple has hardware issues like everyone else does. It just their reassures that they’re premiere brand that makes thing look so bad. Lenovo turn out some great stuff and very disappoint ones as well. Not a hardware manufacturer out that don’t. If Apple didn’t constantly tell you they were best of the best then it would be business as normal. Apple wants to claim to be best of the best and charge a price to match then they need to walk the walk to match their words. Yes, Apple makes mistakes just like Microsoft. Questions is who will learn from them and do better while supporting their customers. So, which consumer brand do you trust clean up it’s mistake? Also, are things getting too thin? I mean what’s wrong with a little thickness to make the thing feel real or at least well made.

  9. lvthunder

    So what percentage of these devices have these problems? Remember Apple makes millions of devices. Some will slip through with issues. Especially since the designs are getting really close to the edge.

  10. warren

    I don't agree with the "in recent years" part of this.... not even a bit.


    The G4 Cube developed cracks in the casing. Schiller outright claimed that there wasn't an issue, even though he admitted people were calling into Apple Support about it. Heavily covered by the press at the time, but we've forgotten.


    There was a generation of Power Mac G4 that got dubbed the "wind tunnel" because it shipped with a very noisy PSU fan. They had to update the design, and offered replacements to customers. This was widely discussed in the Mac community at the time.... but we've forgotten.


    The first-gen Power Mac G5 had ground loop problems, as well as chirping issues with the PSU, that affected audio quality. This was covered in-depth by Ars Technica and others at the time.... but we've forgotten.


    The monitor on the iMac G4, the so-called "lampshade" model, would not stay in place after a while. It would slowly droop down. Sometimes it could be fixed by tightening some bolts.... other times, a complete arm replacement from Apple was required. Nobody remembers this.


    There was the iBook G4, which had consistently had problems with the screen going blank. People believed it was a GPU issue, but it was actually a problem caused by the laptop heating up and cooling off a number of times; eventually a power-carrying connector cracks. I personally had three logic board replacements in three years because of this.... after it died the fourth time, I went out and bought a Dell. Believe me, *I* haven't gotten how fucking irritating this was, to have spent something of a premium on a new computer, only to have it die every year.


    More recently, there was the large failure rates in 2011 Macbook Pros.... overheating/failing video cards in the Mac Pro.... random logic board failures on the 2013 MBA.... Faulty hinges on 2012-2014 iMacs.....


    There are so many more of these, too.


    The only reason people think Apple has a stellar reputation for reliability is because they've either chosen to ignore/forget the long history of failures, or they never knew in the first place.

    • lvthunder

      In reply to warren:

      You claim "large failure rates". So what are the rates? Is it 5%? Is it 40%? Also are they worse than other companies failure rates?

      • warren

        In reply to lvthunder:


        Let me guess..... You don't actually give a fuck what the exact failure rate is. No number will convince you of anything.


        Correct?


        Your only interest here is discrediting the information I've presented because you are positively emotionally invested in Apple, perhaps beyond the point of basic rationality. You NEED NEED NEED for all of this to be less significant than it is so that you can continue choosing to ignore the basic reality.


        Correct?


        You can go educate yourself on any of the subjects I mentioned with simple Google searches. You can go watch Louis Rossmannvideos; he explains in painstaking detail -- on the electrical level -- how the product quality in Macbooks is just not as good as its reputation. You can read up on all the repair/replace programs that Apple has opened over the years to repair flaws in their products. Unbox Therapy, generally a pretty pro-Apple channel, talked about a failing butterfly keyboard just this past weekend, Even guys like MKBHD, who pretty much never badmouths Apple in order to curry favour with the company and gain direct access to executives, has talked about multiple GPU failures in his trashcan Mac Pro.


        People don't talk about problems that don't exist, k?


        • lvthunder

          In reply to warren:

          I want to know what the failure rates are and how they compare to other people's products. That's the only way to do a fair comparison. Apple is too polarizing of a company that people make a mountain out of a mole hill sometimes.


          I'm not emotionally invested in Apple. That's absurd. I don't even like the Mac. Sure I have a MacBook Air, but I only use it for XCode when I want to write an iOS app. I started when that was the only way to write them. I much prefer the Surface line and still use my original Surface Book. I didn't have nearly the problems with it as others have. I do like my iPhone though, but only upgrade every three models and have been doing that since the original one. It sure beats a phone made by an advertising company.


          I also think the closer to the manufacturing edge you get the more problems you are going to have. Surface Book and Intel's move to 10nm are other examples of this. There is less and less of a safety factor in designs these days.

          • jedwards87

            In reply to lvthunder:

            Great answer. People like Warren hate Apple so bad they can't think straight. Their only answer to questions is "You an Apple fanboy...blah blah blah". And I am sure he already knows that with Apple being on top they get the most press good or bad. Look at the horror that is the Pixel 3. Hardware issues galore but nobody really talks about it because nobody buys the crappy phones Google makes.

            • warren

              In reply to jedwards87:


              Is this who you really are? You're presented with a lengthy (& still incomplete) list of hardware problems with Apple products over the years, all of which were widely reported by the media when they happened.... and all you can come up with is "He hates Apple so bad"?


              Man, I feel bad for you.


              If it really were the case that I hated Apple, then why do I have a 2018 15" Macbook Pro, an Apple Watch, an iPhone, and an iPad? I've also got a large collection of old Macs in a storage room, because I'm a collector. I also wrote most of the 1987-1997 Macintosh model articles on Wikipedia in their entirety.


              Kinda throws your dumbass theories about me for a loop, doesn't it?


              My problem is with people who ignore all the real, provable, factual problems, because they want to buy into a fucking magical fantasyland that doesn't actually exist. This includes the guy I know who refuses to buy anything but Apple products because he bought into the oki-doke..... but finds himself at a Genius Bar on a sunny Saturday afternoon, wasting his wife's time, because the butterfly keyboard on his MBP is failing in the exact way that it is known to fail. He's still got a long way to go before enlightenment hits him but his smugness about Apple products takes a permanent hit today. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


              (Maybe it'll take him seeing this Youtube video from iFixit talking about the backlight failure issue on the new MBPs.... including the fact that Apple is actively scrubbing any discussion of this issue from their support forums......)


              I've also got major concerns about the lack of investment in macOS, and first-party software. Apple has released exactly one brand-new Mac application this entire decade.... can you name it?

  11. willr

    Lol Apple doesn't care about their customers, Apple only cares about Apple

  12. Winner

    Definitely a change after Cook took charge. Jobs would not put up for it. Jobs was about excellence, Cook is about margins.

  13. waethorn

    Every brand cuts corners here and there. Don't be loyal to brands.

  14. PeterC

    To be really clear. Everyone is having hardware problems. Apple, google, Microsoft, Bose, Samsung oneplus, etc etc. Creating new differentiated hardware products in an age where consumers value the hardware design & functionality means pushing the “manufacturing capability” and our last few decades of tech innovation have really been about mass manufacturing innovation.


    Consumer expectation versus manufacting capability and component reliability - and then you wrap in the software/service testing or lack of it and you have the problems of today.


    We’re not even the end of January and I’ve got Xmas present problems; one Xbox controller and 2 Bose headphone products, and one Apple product going back for repair/replace/refund.


    If if I join the dots on all these differing brands problems it appears to be focussed on the Chinese/asian based mass manufacturing operations. Are they over promising their production capability? Or are the brands asking too much of today’s production line capability?


    The number of indian based manufacturing operations ir rising noticeably now so it will be interesting to see if there’s any differences between the quality of their end product. We will see this with Apple soon.


    I really hope Microsoft’s new hardware reboot this year does not fall into the same trap many brands appear to be, you know the type of thing, unfinished software on glitchy leading edge hardware...... I’m not overly confident given my past surface problems but I do wish them well in their attempts, but this time I’m not going to be an early adopter.


    • Tony Barrett

      In reply to PeterC:

      "I really hope Microsoft’s new hardware reboot this year does not fall into the same trap many brands appear to be, you know the type of thing, unfinished software on glitchy leading edge hardware...... I’m not overly confident given my past surface problems but I do wish them well in their attempts, but this time I’m not going to be an early adopter."


      You're kidding me right? Surface quality (hardware and software) has been terrible from day one. MS are already well in that trap!

    • Tony Barrett

      In reply to PeterC:

      You'd expect this to a degree with budget devices, but not with the premium, luxury brand kit Apple's pushes out and the prices they charge. You shouldn't forgive them for that, so that's no excuse. Those Chinese phone manufacturers push out some very well made kit for under half what Apple charge, and I don't here anyone wining about those bending!

      • PeterC

        In reply to ghostrider:

        Hi ghostrider. As ive just commented to Winner, premium brands manufactured goods are dissapointing everywhere I look - apple are by no means on their own with regards faulty manufactured goods. I don't forgive any of them, I just stop buying from them.


        The Chinese brands such as Huawei and Honor are just as bad, but they just replace your device straight away, they have the scaleability to just do that, so tend to just go under anyones radar. One Plus dont have the same scalability and hence have been dogged by customer service issues over the years, but its improving for them. All 3 of the OnePlus handsets Ive bought over the years have had problems and 2 had to be replaced.


        Poor tech manufacture is everywhere! and we keep paying for it.

        • Tony Barrett

          In reply to PeterC:

          I'm not going to disagree with most of that. You do get the feeling that manufacturers expect consumers to take and accept whatever they put out these days, and when there is a problem, they'll either ignore it or come up with some lame excuse as to why we should accept it because 'it's within design specs'. In rare cases, they'll replace a product, but that doesn't mean the replacement won't suffer with the problem too.

          Apple seem notorious in this respect. In their eyes they can do no wrong, and the consumer doesn't matter - this is the mighty APPLE after all. But that arrogance and self-importance will bite them eventually (the signs are already there). The products are showing more and more signs of design problems/faults, yet prices are increasing and innovation has stalled. I'm not saying Chinese brand products are necessarily better, but they don't get to the sales numbers they do without some reason!

    • Winner

      In reply to PeterC:

      While this is true, it's a bit of a cop-out.

      Apple had for example great keyboards and the new ones are much less reliable. They didn't have to change.

      A report just this week says that on the touchbar MacBook Pros, one of the wire ribbons is thinner and so people are having screen issues.

      Just two examples of cheapening going on.

      • PeterC

        In reply to Winner:

        Hi Winner - Its no cop out, Im just seeing Cheapening going on everywhere. Bose are a prime example, as are apple, google, Microsoft... the list of brands and goods is endless. They're all at it, your just focussing on apple, im just disappointed with ALL of them. Its not just apple people are turning away from. Take a look around.

  15. rocky roulok

    Very Informative article. Keep Posting.

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