I am angry at Paul for discouraging Microsoft from trying something different with phones

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As we know, the sole purpose of the internet is complaining, so I’ve come to Pauls own forum to complain about something he did: in Thinking About Microsoft’s Mobile Fantasy, he discourages Microsoft from trying with phones again, and that’s just terrible of him. Apple isn’t going to meaningfully innovate the iPhone, and Android is very similar to iOS. There’s no real competition anymore in phones and no new ideas or different approaches, and that’s really bad for everybody. If Microsoft is going to try something new and different again, everyone should be encouraging them, not discouraging them. Obviously if this new mobile OS makes it to market it’s not going to get 30% market share, but if it’s better than the iPhone and Android, it could find some success and influence the industry. Windows Phone proved that Microsoft knows what they are doing (Windows Phone didn’t deserve to fail) and it would be a real shame for everyone if Microsoft didn’t give it one more try

Comments (79)

79 responses to “I am angry at Paul for discouraging Microsoft from trying something different with phones”

  1. anchovylover

    It isn't the role of Paul or Thurrott.com in general to blindly encourage MS or any other company. It's their job to report facts and opinions in an unbiased manner regardless if you or I agree with it. You say Windows Phone proves MS knows what they are doing with mobile...really! The facts suggest otherwise I'm afraid.

    • Bdsrev

      I'm sorry but I don't buy this "Windows Phone sucked and Microsoft fucked up yet again" narrative, Windows Phone was years ahead of iOS and Android in many important areas when it first came out, and even today is better in some ways (try out a lumia 950 if you can and tell me that phone isn't great). Windows Phone failing isn't actually Microsofts fault, products and services don't sink or swim on merit! My 4 year old panasonic plasma television embarrasses even the flagship LCD's on market today, and plasma is a discontinued technology

      • hrlngrv

        In reply to Bdsrev:

        Windows Phone/Mobile and Windows phones may have encapsulated all that it good and forward-looking in mobile. But it didn't sell well.

        Like it or not, sales are what matter to companies primarily concerned with making profits. Maybe better to spend less time here and instead go fix the 97% of humanity who appear to be unwilling to buy Windows phones.

        • VancouverNinja

          In reply to hrlngrv:

          You got it wrong 97% of people were clearly directed not to buy a windows phone - all the major players ended up choosing to push consumers either to iPhone or Android. It really was pathetic how many pimply faced sales kids (young adults) would instantly pick up a cheap Android phone for a consumer not having a clue what to buy and if a Windows phone was looked at disparage it. The industry did not get behind Windows phone and consumers got stuck with a bad OS. Beta lost to VHS and Windows Phones lost to Android. The best doesn't always win.

      • Tony Barrett

        In reply to Bdsrev:

        MS actually missed the mobile revolution by a country mile, and are now paying the price. Their attempts at a mobile O/S early on were laughable as they tried to make a desktop O/S fit a mobile device, which is what forced them to reboot the platform 3, or maybe 4 times. In your personal opinion, Win10 Mobile on the 950 is 'years ahead' of iOS and Android. I personally disagree (as do 99.8% of the world). I absolutely hate the UI, and find it annoying, limited and awkward.

        Whatever you say, it can only be Microsoft's fault they've failed - every time. Knee jerk products released before they were ready, trying to gain mobile market share off the back of the Windows brand. They public weren't buying it, and devs ignored it. MS are, by definition, insane.

      • Paul Thurrott

        In reply to Bdsrev:

        It's not a "narrative." It's what happened.

    • Vuppe

      In reply to anchovylover:

      The problem is Paul isn't being unbiased right now. He's attacking Microsoft's attempts to revive its mobile platform.

      It's one thing to say "this will probably fail, but let's see" and another to say "this is absolutely stupid."

      It's more his rhetoric than his position. He doesn't seem unbiased, even though he's probably correct.

  2. wunderbar

    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -Albert Einstein.

    Microsoft failed at creating their own mobile platform. The market share of Windows Phone is currently the statistical equivalent to a rounding error.

    Yes, there are people who are fans of it, and who want Microsoft to continue to beat the drum, because they think that they will succeed. But I don't hold onto my Palm Pre because I think it was the best mobile OS ever conceived and maybe if they just had one more shot at it this time they'd do it, for sure.

    It sucks for those who truly believe that Windows Mobile was the better platform. It really does. But facts are facts. Even if Microsoft sold 40 million devices in a month, which they will never do, their mobile market share will still be a rounding error. The ship has sailed.

    • Interweb Deuce

      In reply to wunderbar:
      Einstein was undoubtedly a brilliant man. The falsely attributed quote is a problem.
      1.) The quote is not merely incorrect. He never said it. A brief background: http://www.savageandgreene.com/definition-of-insanity/
      2.) Doing something over and over is also called Exercise or just Practice. Or acting in a play or learning to play music. Each time you 'do something' 'over and over' and are expecting improvement; i.e. different results. Such as healthier, better at acting or music and so on.
      3.) Misusing an incorrectly attributed and nonsense quote does not make you witty. It makes you look silly.
      • hrlngrv

        In reply to Interweb Deuce:

        Quote attribution problematic.

        However, expecting the next mobile hardware MSFT flogs to sell in the tens of millions is way beyond absurdly optimistic. If Windows phones have been ideal all along, why haven't they sold a lot better? A few possibilities. 1) A majority, perhaps an overwhelming majority, actually don't like the Windows Phone/Mobile UI. I realize Windows phone fans just can't accept that, but it's one of the more obvious possible reasons Windows phones have sold poorly. 2) Windows Store isn't adequate. Many will say they don't need more than bundled apps, but the potential for lots of apps is a selling point, one which MSFT lacks. 3) Related to #2, lock-in, that is, Android phone or iPhone users with enough purchased apps or media that they don't want to pay again if they switch to another phone OS.

        There are sound reasons to be highly skeptical that MSFT is one or two mobile products away from challenging iPhones/iOS for #2 in mobile.

        • VancouverNinja

          In reply to hrlngrv:

          You are stuck thinking strictly in a smart phone paradigm.

          • hrlngrv

            In reply to VancouverNinja:

            Anything NOT a phone will sell in an order of magnitude FEWER UNITS.

            Being simplistic, anything small enough to be held in one hand and make voice calls could be called a phone, even if its a 22:9 8" mobile device. If it's too large to be held and used with one hand, it won't sell enough units to make any difference.

            • VancouverNinja

              In reply to hrlngrv:

              Wow. It is amazing how you can predict the future of a product you don't know anything a about. Nuff said. ;-)

              • hrlngrv

                In reply to VancouverNinja:

                You believe it'll be a clear winner. I believe it'll be a clear loser. We're both basing our respective opinions on nothing. Time will tell.

                • Roger Ramjet

                  In reply to hrlngrv:

                  "You believe it'll be a clear winner..."

                  I don't read that in his arguments. It is probably fair to say he thinks it could be a winner.

                  I concur that you a being too narrow about this; go back to the iPhone launch and Ballmer lol, he wasn't laughing after a few years (actually his focus should have been on Goog, that's who really ate his lunch). Big picture, long term, we are still in the early phases of computing infusions generally, and new blockbuster products are still to be found. It is far from impossible that some new category could be created, yes, in mobile computing, or that some optimization occurs that is not trivial. Microsoft clearly thinks this, statements by Nadella and that HoloLens guy points to them cooking something. Of course there is no certainty, and they could well come out with something really interesting grab some attention, then botch the market implementation, again. Just as a gedankenexperiment (since we are on an Einstein binge :-)), what if they made a "light" HoloLens that had some telephony capabilities, software assisted video capture (extending what most phones can do in a more user friendly way), and auto linked back to your existing phones, or any of these "cellular PCs" they are going to build (Paul reported on those PCs, but did not seem to grasp that there could be some importance to them beyond the obvious, oh, PCs are going to be always on, but you often see paradigm shifts from a few disparate little things pulled together, that's all the iPhone was, nothing there was newly invented). What they would have done there is not try to replace smartphones, or compete with Android/iOS on the current terms, but build on top of them, a common way to smile to the bank.

                • hrlngrv

                  In reply to Roger Ramjet:

                  Ambient computing and distributed/remote computing are more likely to be the next REALLY BIG THING than any mobile device. The OS running on local devices is poised to become mostly irrelevant.

      • VancouverNinja

        In reply to Interweb Deuce:

        Thanks for this - I use this quote all the time. However it should be interpreted based on the scenario it is applied to. In sales if a sales person is failing with the process they employ expecting anything to change by doing exactly the same process will not work and it this case requires change of process - follow up, sales technique, relationship building etc. In the cases you gave you are bang on; I had never thought of the quote in the light.

    • VancouverNinja

      In reply to wunderbar:

      You know exactly what MSs plans are for their new mobile device? That's amazing! Can you please share with us all? I mean since you seem to have knowledge that it will be exactly the same offering as their last solution and not something completely different and innovative like Satya Nadella has said many times in the last 6 months...

      • wunderbar

        In reply to VancouverNinja:

        I want to know why people think that "the next thing will be different" means that it will sell and do well.


        Windows Phone 7, 8, and Windows 10 Mobile were all significantly different than Android an iOS. How well did they sell again?

        • VancouverNinja

          In reply to wunderbar:

          Simply due to the fact that Satya Nadella has already stated that they are not doing a smart phone. That their new mobile initiative will be something completely different - they are not interested in what is current but what is the future. They have clearly accepted losing the smart phone category. They are now working on what comes after the smart phone and focusing on winning the era of mobile computing. This, in my opinion, is the right thinking and right approach. They have quietly been lining up the key app vendors currently not on their platform and my guess is that by the time they launch this new category device they will have enough of the apps people care about to easily switch if they are turned on by it. iTunes was a mega announcement, Sound Cloud very surprising. There is not much left that people "need" or care passionately about to avoid moving to a windows mobile device in the future. So its going to come down to whatever the heck this new device is.

  3. Angusmatheson

    In terms of going back in time and seeing what could have happened. I wonder what could have happened if they had left Nokia alone - to do what it was going to do, maybe just go under, maybe make android phones too - and released a surface phone. Could that have stabilized this windows phone market? I think not because of the app situation. I don't understand why Apple in the 90s and Linux today keep a small dedicated developer base that allow the platforms to stay alive no matter now low the market share. Windows phone 10 didn't have that, even when it had good market share it didn't have the good apps. I think the mistake came when they when from 7 to 8 to 10 - long before surface phone was a dream - breaking all prior apps and not making old phones upgradable. I think the did this with the dream of making windows phone apps work on PC - tfor support windows into the future. So I believe they sacrificed their phone platform attempted to support their desktop platform. I think they were right - classic x86 apps you get from boxes or direct downloads from the open web are doomed, and it that is all windows has in the long term it is doomed. As much as it failed, I think windows RT was a better idea to get modern apps onto desktop windows. This way they have no viable phone OS and a legacy PC OS. Unless they get developers to support universal apps....and everything they have tried has failed. But without a phone so 1 app works everywhere - why would anyone make a universal app. And without apps why would anyone buy a phone. It is a perfect catch 22.

  4. Jules Wombat

    We are all obviously jaded by Microsoft (half hearted) attempts to break into consumer devices, and don't think they have any realistic chances of any commercial success any time soon. And for that Paul is being realistic and should perhaps reflects on Microsoft board members.

    However many of us here are looking for great new innovative technologes and servcies to inspire us. And for that you cannot really rely upon Paul or Mary Jos opinions or aptitudes to technologies, because they simply express very conservative opinions. (aka 'yukk we never/don't use pens, prefer standard laptops over detachables/ Studios etc etc) They are stuck in the past and have little imagination or vision to inspire fans on new user experiences and innvoative devices.

  5. jimchamplin

    In reply to Locust Infested Orchard Inc.:

    It's 64-bit but not x64. The architecture's name is ARMv8-A

  6. Tony Barrett

    There's nothing to stop MS trying another 10 times to break into the mobile market, but how many times do you actually keep 'trying' until you admit defeat? How much loss would shareholders actually accept? It's a market MS can't ignore, but whether that means their own hardware products, or whether the just focus on Android/iOS apps is down to them. MS are essentially becoming a software'n' services company with a hardware side-line, but hardware doesn't really make much money (unless you're Apple) as competition shaves margins to the bone. MS have tried to carve our a successful 'premium' line in the Surface, which is also unlikely to actually make much profit, but does look good on revenue, but that doesn't mean a Surface Phone will be successful - far from it infact. Unless MS can re-imagine mobile again into something consumers actually desire, they'll never succeed - Apple and Google have the market sewn up. The good thing for MS - in a way - is that they can't actually fall much further. Market share for them is just a rounding error now, so they could almost try small scale market tests of new products without risking much.

  7. Lewk

    I couldn't agree more. Nokia, Motorola and Blackberry were sitting pretty owning the mobile space. Then bam, over a short few years they were superseded by new companies with a fresh new take on the mobile. What's to stop another company like Microsoft from trying something new and innovative? To compete against the current leaders in mobile that continue to complacently make the same thing, year after year?

  8. George Rae

    Marketplace always has a vote. Asking why companies won't lose more money because you like a product then be upset because a tech writer expresses his opinion which mirrors the marketplaces vote, is interesting.

  9. Darekmeridian

    Well I am coming to this thread late... but I don't think in the strategy meetings at Microsoft anyone is saying, "Let's get Paul Thurrott on the phone and see what he thinks" We all know the reasons why phones aren't working for Microsoft so maybe for the time being what they offer is enough. Windows Mobile may be a valid product but the market has clearly spoken and said there are going to be two platforms.

  10. Jules Wombat

    In reply to Locust Infested Orchard Inc.:

    The Pocket PC lives again. I will get out my iComPaq again, just great to use a stylus for all those fiddly menus.

  11. ilovemissy85

    I felt the same way about Blackberry 10 O.S. but not that many people would try it either.

  12. Tony Barrett

    In reply to Locust Infested Orchard Inc.:

    I expect loads are really excited about the chance of running Windows 10 ARM - on a 5" screen! Better get those magnifying glasses ready....

  13. Smidgerine

    I still think they could have a "game changer" if they would use Xbox branding (at least as the top of the line) and have it play BC X360 games. Let it work with the XOne gamepads. That could create a niche, and then maybe a future iteration could play X1 games. And just let it have Android compatibility.

  14. jimchamplin

    If there is some kind of incoming new mobile thing that MS is working on, I predict that it will either be pointed at business or it won't. Sorry if I can't be more specific, but I thought that by really drilling down to the finest detail the way I did might be the best way to handle this.

    No, seriously, I could imagine something that's really focused on some particular demographic the way a lot of the recent additions have been. A lot of dev-focused movements over the last year and a half, and some gamer-related ones too. Either way would be interesting.

    A niche focus is pretty much guaranteed, and not a general-purpose device designed to "wow the world" and knock El Goog from their high horse. Some kind of Nvidia Shield-style gaming device? Maybe a "developer's best friend" sort of thing? Don't ask me what that would be.

  15. slartybartmark

    In "I am angry at Paul for discouraging Microsoft from trying something different with phones", BDSREV discourages Paul from having an opinion and sharing it, and that's just terrible of him. If Paul is going to share his opinion based on years of experience, everyone should be encouraging him, not discouraging him. If Paul can't write his opinion, that's really bad for everybody.


    The original post reads like Jr. High self-esteem advice. Put down the Windows Phone and slowly back away. It's going to be okay.


    Paul is not the CEO of MS. He can't force them to do anything. He's disagreed with a lot of what they've done and they do it anyway. If his opinion has so much weight, one could argue that Windows Phone would still potentially be around, as he gave MS a lot of advice on what would help it improve while it was still on life support.


    He didn't make Windows Phone nor did he didn't kill it. His opinion is not going to keep them from doing whatever they want to do. They can shoot themselves in the foot all by themselves. They do it all the time.


    The Insider Build debacle over the last 24 hours for example.

  16. skane2600

    While I imagine Paul is pretty well known by Microsoft personnel, I doubt his opinion is a key factor in their decisions.

    • SvenJ

      In reply to skane2600: I'm not so sure. I imagine there is a checkbox in the decision tree at MS that says, will this make Paul wrong. Probably not in the must have column, but possibly in the nice to have collateral plus column. ;) Who knows, Paul may actually be using reverse psychology. As much as Paul travels, and with the specter off having to check his multiple laptops, I bet he would like a full windows phone. Maybe seatback monitors could support HDMI in, and MS makes a foldable keyboard with alcantara.


    • Bdsrev

      In reply to skane2600:

      Maybe not a key factor but his words might influence them

  17. rameshthanikodi

    Paul isn't discouraging - he is outright speaking the truth. Unless Microsoft somehow does something truly unique which other larger competitors can't copy in 1/4th of the time, it's almost surely going to be a drain on Microsoft's finances for no good reason. It's not like there's much competition in the PC market either, but we've seen meaningful improvements for our laptops over the years. This is just how mature, oligopolistic markets work.

    Even when Windows phone had 4% of marketshare, people didn't consider Windows phone as "competition". What are the odds that Microsoft can claw back 4% of the market today? and to do that only to be considered as a non-player once again?

    However, what bugs me is that Paul thinks the Essential phone has a chance. I'd go even further and say that the smartphone market is extremely cutthroat, and the Essential phone is absolutely dead on arrival. It doesn't matter if you have a nice phone, and it doesn't even matter these days if you have the software that people want (read: Android and its apps). Once Essentials' strategy is validated, Xiaomi will ramp up their Mi Mix supply chain of bezeless displays and ceramic bodies, and put them out of business within two quarters.

    Microsoft can try to find a niche in the mobile market, like the enterprise, or try to do something wildly different, but in that case, it won't be a smartphone, and it won't be exactly what people are looking for.

    • Bdsrev

      In reply to rameshthanikodi:

      Well he should wait to at least see the product in its entirety before making judgments and conclusions. It's possible that it could be a game changer, we just don't know. And humans are funny creatures, if this new thing is branded 'Surface', it's got a shot. Consumers care about image, brand names etc.

      • Tony Barrett

        In reply to Bdsrev:

        99% of the world don't know about Surface. All they know is Google Android and Apple iOS, and for those who *can* afford a phone, it's Android. To say the 'Surface' brand is what Microsoft need to launch a phone under to get 'a shot' is ridiculous. For a start, MS have positioned 'Surface' as a premium brand, so expensive. Scratch 95% of the world straight away. A Surface Phone (or any Surface branded mobile device) would be rubbing shoulders with Samsung and Apple at the very high end, and MS wouldn't stand a chance, as they found out with the 950/950xl. Most people associate MS with boring, beige boxes running a business operating system, and they can't shake that off no matter how trendy they're trying to make Windows.

        • skane2600

          In reply to Tony Barrett:

          Although MS had little chance to succeed once Android caught on, I do believe they would have done better if their phones weren't branded as "Windows". They could have also avoided the technical baggage of Windows by creating the best mobile OS they could. The result could hardly be worse than what actually happened and it would have avoided the debacle of Windows 8 by not trying to cram their mobile strategy on their existing customer base.

      • hrlngrv

        In reply to Bdsrev:

        To be a game changer a Windows phone would need to attract at least 20 million users (a whopping 1% of global smartphone users) in a month or two. Even if the hardware is excellent, is the Windows Store a selling point?

        • VancouverNinja

          In reply to hrlngrv:


          It is not going to be a phone. It will run software, you will be able to call people from it but it will not be sold as a phone.

          • hrlngrv

            In reply to VancouverNinja:

            A Surface Mini able to run Windows desktop software and make voice calls? If it can fit in most pockets, it may have some mass market appeal. Whether it'd sell in big numbers seems unlikely. If it doesn't fit in pockets, expect it to do worse than Surface Books in terms of sales.

            • VancouverNinja

              In reply to hrlngrv:

              Dude. Why don't you just wait to see what it is? Right now MS has the platform that is the best, they need to bring a solution to market that excites people. I think they can do it, you think they can't . This is fun - let's see what happens!

              • hrlngrv

                In reply to VancouverNinja:

                If I hadn't lived through the last 6 years 7 months aware of MSFT fans all around saying Windows mobile devices were going to conquer mobile because they're so damned obviously better than everything Apple or Android phone/tablet makers sell, I might be willing to accept some low odds that MSFT could pull off a coup. However, the blind optimistic faith of the MSFT fan base has become more than tiresome. It's become an act of faith hostile to evidence.

                Yes, it's POSSIBLE MSFT could come up with a market changing device which puts MSFT in the leading position in mobile. It's also possible some celestial object will crash into the Earth, destroying all human life and making this argument moot. I figure the odds of both are about the same.

                • MutualCore

                  In reply to hrlngrv:

                  WHY are you here? This is a Microsoft blog, or do you admit you're an Apple troll?

                • hrlngrv

                  In reply to MutualCore:

                  I appreciate MSFT for what it's becoming, a B2B company, the next IBM just with a game console division. I also enjoy watching the deluded who believe MSFT is on the brink of reclaiming its late 1990s dominance, foolishly believing MSFT's current competitors learned nothing from MSFT's competitors of the 1980s and early 1990s who focused on the wrong things and let MSFT attain its erstwhile dominance.

      • Paul Thurrott

        In reply to Bdsrev:

        Surface RT, Surface 3, and Surface Book were all branded Surface, and none of them sold well.

    • MutualCore

      In reply to rameshthanikodi:

      TLDR, another anti-Microsoft rant which serves no constructive purpose other than to demean.

    • WP7Mango

      In reply to rameshthanikodi:

      "Unless Microsoft somehow does something truly unique..."


      That implies that they need to have another go, which is the whole point of the poster's argument.

  18. davidamodt

    Its unfortunate that Microsoft lost their way in the mobile space, but they are too far behind in the smartphone wars to battle Android & iPhone's dominance in the space.

  19. Paul Thurrott

    lol oh man.


    I'm discouraging Microsoft from making the same mistake over and over again. If this thing is something mobile for businesses that isn't a phone as we know it ... Whatever. That's fine, I guess.


    The thing is, noone really knows what this is. My point is only that, if this is a phone, then this is a mistake. This battle was lost years ago.

    • MutualCore

      In reply to Paul Thurrott:

      The sheer arrogance of you to think that Microsoft cares about your opinion re: mobile one way or the other. Stick to reviewing Google products & services, you seem to be using them these days exclusively.

    • VancouverNinja

      In reply to Paul Thurrott:

      Paul, you kinda got sucked into this one. You know and anyone who has LISTENED to Satya Nadella that they are not releasing a Mobile phone in the future. It has been stated they are working on a new type of mobile device. They are going to try to create a new mobile device that also has cellular capabilities. It's cool and fun see what comes of it. Strategically MS has moved perfectly in every area it has needed to compete in and, based on this fact, I am expecting a next gen mobile device from them that is not categorized as a "smart phone".


      • jimchamplin

        In reply to VancouverNinja:

        "...next gen mobile device from them that is not categorized as a 'smart phone'."

        So... A tablet? No... no, I know.

        Some kind of little cube. Perhaps a bracer that you wear like a medieval knight that has an 8K screen on it and projects holograms of Spock to talk to you. Threepio if you prefer Star Wars.

      • hrlngrv

        In reply to VancouverNinja:

        . . . MS has moved perfectly in every area it has needed to compete in . . .

        In your opinion, either MSFT never needed to compete in mobile? Or do you mean MSFT is only playing comatose and will spring from its sickbed and surprise world & dog?

        • VancouverNinja

          In reply to hrlngrv:

          Fair enough. I should be clearer. Since MS hit choppy waves, I would peg that at Window 8 release along with their fail with the smart phone category. Its funny you would claim they are comatose when they are just releasing nothing but excellent incremental improvements across their entire business units and have pretty much put together an amazing cross platform OS solution that has no comparison from any of their competitors. MS is highly focused and executing on a grand vision. This takes time but in the end MS ends up with the best solution for a platform on the market. All I know is my absolute dyed in the wool apple fan in our Graphic design department is starting cry uncle since we brought in Surface Studio and MSs latest update to the pen capabilities. Everywhere we turn MS is improving everything at a rapid pace. In some areas they are playing catch up, in other areas they are leading. If they can keep the pace up they will be the company to catch up to in the next 24 months. Its not hard to see at this point.

          • hrlngrv

            In reply to VancouverNinja:

            I should have been clearer. Comatose in mobile. Office and some MSFT services for Android and iOS are nice, but I doubt they'll attract users in the hundreds of millions.

            MSFT has a lot of good to excellent server-based offerings, and I believe that's where most of their profits will come from over the next few decades, so that's inevitably whither their focus will be drawn. Office and Windows licensing for PCs will remain strong if no longer growing profit streams for at least another decade. Consumer software, mobile OS, app/media store are probably going to remain goals, but they'll account for tiny %s of MSFT overall revenues and profits.

            • VancouverNinja

              In reply to hrlngrv:

              Wow you keep pointing out you don't get it. The eye is on the future, consumers change their phones or upgrade them regularly. Consumers will not be carrying phones in a decade from now. It is funny they are still called phones - i am willing to bet anyone that the majority of time on "mobile phones" is app use, listening to music, taking pictures, or surfing the net and not phone calls. Therefore the fact they are labelled phones is completely outdated - it is just another feature that is used the least on a mobile device today. Change is coming to mobile computing; whether MS is successful at being the company that takes us to this future or not will be interesting to see.

              • hrlngrv

                In reply to VancouverNinja:

                Why do people carry anything around? Camera. Music. Books. Movies/TV. Maps. Browsing. Social networks. Maybe calculators, e-mail, even voice calls. Sure, voice calls may be a minor part of that. OTOH, single handed usability is a large part of that.

                Single handed usability and ability to handle voice calls. Sounds like a smartphone.

                Even if the device in question could do a lot more than current smartphones, if it can be used one-handed and make voice calls, it's effectively still a smartphone. If it can't be used one-handed (or fit in anything smaller than cargo pants' pockets), it doesn't matter what it could do, it won't be portable enough to be something tens of millions of people might be interested buying.

        • MutualCore

          In reply to hrlngrv:

          'sickbed' is that kind of language necessary? Did it make you feel all hot & wet saying it?

  20. waverunning.geek

    Everyone (Microsoft, customers, journalists) needs to redirect their energies at growing the app ecosystem. It's the sole reason Microsoft is failing in the Mobile space. Their OS is fine. But without apps, there's nothing to run on the devices.

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