Paul and Brad have contradictory takes on the cause Surfacegate

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In Beneath a Surface, Brad says Skylake (+ Windows 10 being new?) was to blame for Surfacegate, but I remember Paul wrote an article saying that it turns out it wasn’t Skylake at all, it was the Surface teams fault (custom drivers I think?). Paul even told a story about Satya asking the head of Lenovo how they’re dealing with the Skylake issues and the head of Lenovo replied “What Skylake issues?” or something like that, and it turns out the Surface team lied about Skylake being buggy or whatever.

WHAT IS THE TRUTH!?!?!

Brad vs Paul, FIGHT!!

Comments (16)

16 responses to “Paul and Brad have contradictory takes on the cause Surfacegate”

  1. Avatar

    planecdr

    Let me grab some popcorn. This is going to be good. :-)

  2. Avatar

    Daekar

    LOL. I want this on FRD. It might be worth loading up the 1080p version for such an epic smackdown. ;-)

  3. Avatar

    willr

    Ohhhhh I remember that article Paul wrote

  4. Avatar

    rob_segal

    Both could be true. The Lenovo engineering team could have encountered more issues with Skylake and the CEO may not have known about the number of details, especially if shipping dates were met. Microsoft could have had issues building working drivers for Skylake because of the increased number of issues. Simply put, Nadella may have been more aware of these problems than the CEO of Lenovo at the time their conversation occurred. Also, regarding the power management issues, PC manufacturers could have disabled it while Microsoft and Intel struggled to get it to work at launch.

    • Avatar

      evox81

      In reply to rob_segal:

      Completely agree. They're both right in a way. I'd also add that Microsoft and Lenovo could very well have different corporate structures, or their CEO's could very well have very different management styles, that meant one knew more about what was happening than the other.

  5. Avatar

    Tim

    "Brad vs Paul, FIGHT!!"


    We are in talks with Dana White.

  6. Avatar

    provision l-3

    Well one of the two has more of a fidelity to the truth while the other seems more attached to conformation bias. I'd say believe the former rather than the latter. If you are unsure which one I'm talking about, I can give you a hint. He has children.

  7. Avatar

    jimchamplin

    Apple also slept on Skylake. Maybe it was just buggy.

  8. Avatar

    Paul Thurrott

    If only there was some way of finding out what I wrote about this.


    Oh right.


    Short version: Microsoft shipped PCs that supported a broken Skylake feature called Modern Standby. They did so knowing it would not work. Microsoft believed Intel when Intel said it would be fixed quickly. It was not. Microsoft retaliated by refusing to support Windows 7 and 8.x on Skylake.


    More experienced PC makers simply ignored Modern Standby. They had fewer problems. Not no problems. Fewer.


    The stories are not contradictory.


    https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/microsoft-surface/64867/trying-to-explain-the-surface-sleep-problems


    https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/microsoft-surface/64095/welcome-to-surfacegate


    https://www.thurrott.com/hardware/78118/kaby-lake-intels-apology-skylake-premium

    • Avatar

      Bdsrev

      In reply to paul-thurrott:

      LOL you didn't link to YOUR own article "Here’s What Microsoft is Saying Internally About Surface Quality and Reliability" (don't bother deleting it because I've already got screenshots):


      "Since then, however, another trusted source at Microsoft has provided with a different take on this story. Microsoft, I’m told, fabricated the story about Intel being at fault. The real problem was Surface-specific custom drivers and settings that the Microsoft hardware team cooked up.

      The Skylake fiasco came to a head internally when Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella met with Lenovo last year and asked the firm, then the world’s biggest maker of PCs, how it was dealing with the Skylake reliability issues. Lenovo was confused. No one was having any issues, he was told. I assume this led to some interesting conversations between the members of the Microsoft senior leadership team."

    • Avatar

      Bdsrev

      In reply to paul-thurrott:

      Todays FRD was great. I think the truth is, Skylake is/was buggy, so I wonder why that source said Microsoft/Surface team fabricated the story, that's really weird.

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