Paul and Brad have contradictory takes on the cause Surfacegate

In Beneath a Surface, Brad says Skylake (+ Windows 10 being new?) was to blame for Surfacegate, but I remember Paul wrote an article saying that it turns out it wasn’t Skylake at all, it was the Surface teams fault (custom drivers I think?). Paul even told a story about Satya asking the head of Lenovo how they’re dealing with the Skylake issues and the head of Lenovo replied “What Skylake issues?” or something like that, and it turns out the Surface team lied about Skylake being buggy or whatever.


Brad vs Paul, FIGHT!!

Conversation 16 comments

  • planecdr

    Premium Member
    09 January, 2019 - 2:36 pm

    <p>Let me grab some popcorn. This is going to be good. :-)</p>

  • Daekar

    09 January, 2019 - 2:46 pm

    <p>LOL. I want this on FRD. It might be worth loading up the 1080p version for such an epic smackdown. ;-)</p>

    • Bdsrev

      09 January, 2019 - 2:54 pm

      <blockquote><em><a href="#393187">In reply to Daekar:</a></em></blockquote><p>Yes! Special Paul vs Brad Surfacegate debate edition of FRD!!</p>

  • willr

    09 January, 2019 - 2:52 pm

    <p>Ohhhhh I remember that article Paul wrote</p>

  • rob_segal

    Premium Member
    09 January, 2019 - 3:00 pm

    <p>Both could be true. The Lenovo engineering team could have encountered more issues with Skylake and the CEO may not have known about the number of details, especially if shipping dates were met. Microsoft could have had issues building working drivers for Skylake because of the increased number of issues. Simply put, Nadella may have been more aware of these problems than the CEO of Lenovo at the time their conversation occurred. Also, regarding the power management issues, PC manufacturers could have disabled it while Microsoft and Intel struggled to get it to work at launch.</p>

    • evox81

      Premium Member
      09 January, 2019 - 6:49 pm

      <blockquote><em><a href="#393191">In reply to rob_segal:</a></em></blockquote><p>Completely agree. They're both right in a way. I'd also add that Microsoft and Lenovo could very well have different corporate structures, or their CEO's could very well have very different management styles, that meant one knew more about what was happening than the other.</p>

  • Tim

    Premium Member
    09 January, 2019 - 3:05 pm

    <p><strong><em>"Brad vs Paul, FIGHT!!"</em></strong></p><p><br></p><p>We are in talks with Dana White.</p>

    • epsjrno

      Premium Member
      09 January, 2019 - 3:48 pm

      <blockquote><em><a href="#393192">In reply to Tim:</a></em></blockquote><p>MORTAL KOMBAT!!!! cue music</p>

  • provision l-3

    09 January, 2019 - 6:23 pm

    <p>Well one of the two has more of a fidelity to the truth while the other seems more attached to conformation bias. I'd say believe the former rather than the latter. If you are unsure which one I'm talking about, I can give you a hint. He has children. </p>

  • jimchamplin

    Premium Member
    09 January, 2019 - 6:28 pm

    <p>Apple also slept on Skylake. Maybe it <em>was</em> just buggy.</p>

  • Paul Thurrott

    Premium Member
    09 January, 2019 - 7:39 pm

    <p>If only there was some way of finding out what I wrote about this.</p><p><br></p><p>Oh right. </p><p><br></p><p>Short version: Microsoft shipped PCs that supported a broken Skylake feature called Modern Standby. They did so knowing it would not work. Microsoft believed Intel when Intel said it would be fixed quickly. It was not. Microsoft retaliated by refusing to support Windows 7 and 8.x on Skylake. </p><p><br></p><p>More experienced PC makers simply ignored Modern Standby. They had fewer problems. Not no problems. Fewer.</p><p><br></p><p>The stories are not contradictory.</p><p><br></p><p></p><p><br></p><p></p><p><br></p><p></p&gt;

    • Bdsrev

      09 January, 2019 - 7:59 pm

      <blockquote><em><a href="#393280">In reply to paul-thurrott:</a></em></blockquote><p>LOL you didn't link to YOUR own article "Here’s What Microsoft is Saying Internally About Surface Quality and Reliability" (don't bother deleting it because I've already got screenshots):</p><p><br></p><p>"Since then, however, another trusted source at Microsoft has provided with a different take on this story. Microsoft, I’m told, fabricated the story about Intel being at fault. The real problem was Surface-specific custom drivers and settings that the Microsoft hardware team cooked up.</p><p>The Skylake fiasco came to a head internally when Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella met with Lenovo last year and asked the firm, then the world’s biggest maker of PCs, how it was dealing with the Skylake reliability issues. Lenovo was confused. No one was having any issues, he was told. I assume this led to some interesting conversations between the members of the Microsoft senior leadership team."</p>

      • Daishi

        Premium Member
        09 January, 2019 - 9:25 pm

        <blockquote><em><a href="#393293">In reply to Bdsrev:</a></em></blockquote><p>I can’t help noticing that you didn’t link to it either.</p>

        • Bdsrev

          09 January, 2019 - 9:46 pm

          <blockquote><em><a href="#393311">In reply to Daishi:</a></em></blockquote><p>Because it doesn't allow me to post URL's for some reason, so I posted the title of the article. Just google the title/headline </p>

    • Bdsrev

      10 January, 2019 - 1:55 pm

      <blockquote><em><a href="#393280">In reply to paul-thurrott:</a></em></blockquote><p>Todays FRD was great. I think the truth is, Skylake is/was buggy, so I wonder why that source said Microsoft/Surface team fabricated the story, that's really weird. </p>

      • willr

        10 January, 2019 - 5:48 pm

        <blockquote><em><a href="#393558">In reply to Bdsrev:</a></em></blockquote><p>Sometimes sources give contradicting accounts. This is definitely weird though </p>

Windows Intelligence In Your Inbox

Sign up for our new free newsletter to get three time-saving tips each Friday

"*" indicates required fields

This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged.

Thurrott © 2023 Thurrott LLC