Microsoft’s OS Nightmare.

I think Microsoft is suffering from an OS nightmare. After failing with the one OS on every surface ( not the brand ) concept with windows 10 and windows 10 mobile, The basic idea of that concept is still left in windows 10 as a bad memory. So Microsoft has still not yet figured out a way to move forward with windows 10. The whole thing with windows 10 tablet mode has also failed because of the applications not being Optimised for tablet mode. Even the Microsoft store does not seem to have a great future. So the Only thing that still makes windows 10 good is that it looks modern ( somewhat ) and the desktop mode works (which is similar to windows 7).

So from a customers perspective, windows 7 and windows 10 is the same thing except in looks.

And after the death of windows 10 mobile, Microsoft started adopting android as a preferred platform because apple will not open up IOS to anyone. But the apps and new features that Microsoft puts out all seem to be focused somewhat on IOS and macOS.


The latest new outlook app on macOS which will not be coming to windows 10.

New features in outlook apps coming first to IOS not on android.

I think Microsoft will start feeling the heat when the whole lot of windows 7 users switch to chromebooks or macs.

Is it fair to say Microsoft might not have any presence in the consumer market?

Conversation 55 comments

  • willc

    16 January, 2020 - 9:11 am

    <p>You’ll get downvoted here for saying Windows is a dead platform, but it’s absolutely correct. The original goals of Windows 10 have all been complete failures, and Microsoft has obviously given up on the product. </p><p><br></p><p>You’re also right that most Windows 7 users will will choose Chromebooks or Macs, but at this point MS doesn’t actually care about that. As long as they can keep mining data and selling ads, the plummeting user numbers won’t matter.</p><p><br></p><p>And Microsoft already has no presence in the consumer market. Nobody uses Windows or Office for anything but the most menial of corporate tasks these days. MS will soon be just as irrelevant as IBM, with one important difference – IBM at least has developed a good reputation and brand image, while almost everyone (for good reason) hates Microsoft.</p>

    • Paul Thurrott

      Premium Member
      17 January, 2020 - 8:19 am

      Downvoting, whatever. Windows is not a dead platform. It’s a legacy platform, for sure, which simply means that’s it’s been around for a long time. But PC makers sold over 260 million PCs last year. That’s not dead. Windows’s closest competitor in this market, the Mac, LOST market share (i.e. had lower sales YOY). Is the Mac dead? Seems like it’s a tiny sliver of the PC market. (Obviously, no.)

      Windows and Office are not used for “menial” tasks. They’re used for productivity.

      Also, Microsoft is one of the most respected companies on earth. What does “almost everyone hates Microsoft” even mean? That is very clearly not true.

      What you’re opining here is fantasy.

      • bob_shutts

        19 January, 2020 - 8:42 pm

        <blockquote><a href="#513903"><em>In reply to paul-thurrott:</em></a><em> Yes, I don't understand the pessimism for Windows here. I only use Windows on my gaming rig, but it seems to me that Win 10 is modern and efficient. It updates smoothly and does what it is intended to do. The only downer is that I don't see a lot of new/exciting apps coming out for the platform (with the exception of games and Teams).</em></blockquote><p><br></p>

        • Vladimir Carli

          Premium Member
          20 January, 2020 - 7:48 am

          <blockquote><em><a href="#514419">In reply to Bob_Shutts:</a></em></blockquote><p><br></p><p>In my opinion, the pessimism comes from the fact that they abandoned the consumer market completely. Revenues are in the billions and will stay there for a while for sure, but it looks a similar situation as RIM and blackberry were in a few years ago. How long does dominance in the business/productivity market last, when users really want to use other platforms?</p><p>Moreover, it's not true that windows updates smoothly. I still see unstoppable updates that happen at critical times when you need the computer. It's way underestimated how much frustration, embarassment and user-hatred that generates. </p><p>I also mainly use windows for my gaming PC. Windows is still the best platform there but every update introduces problems of drivers, incompatibility etc. The WMR debacle is almost incredible. There are not so many VR gamers of course but there is an active community and they are constantly let down by the last microsoft update, have to roll-back, resort to black magic techniques to make it work. And that's a platform on which Microsoft invested a lot and loudly very recently. All these thing add up on damaging the reputation of windows and microsoft. Many people often complain that google abandons products, but what about microsoft? The only reason why google generates more complaints is because more people use the products they discontinue.</p><p>Businesses might be happy to continue buying windows, but being in the position of an OS imposed to its users is not really very nice</p>

          • bob_shutts

            20 January, 2020 - 12:00 pm

            <blockquote><a href="#514444"><em>In reply to Vladimir:</em></a><em> I never have had an update ruin my day. But I have disabled auto-update, so I don't wake up to some disaster which happened in the night. Maybe I'm lucky or maybe it's because I cherry pick only the best components for my PC?</em></blockquote><blockquote><br></blockquote><blockquote><em>Off topic: Next project: my first Hackintosh. Pray for me. </em>?</blockquote><p><br></p>

            • Vladimir Carli

              Premium Member
              20 January, 2020 - 12:40 pm

              <blockquote><em><a href="#514511">In reply to Bob_Shutts:</a></em></blockquote><p><br></p><p>I don't either because I am able to control the updates, but "normal" people aren't. I work in academia and I constantly participate in lectures, seminars, journal clubs. I stopped counting how many times I witnessed the terrible five minutes when the meeting or presentation should start but it can't, because the presenter starts the computer and there is an update pending. This is not at all related to the frequency of the updates or to the need of restarting the computer. The real problem is that the update starts without user input and there is no way to stop it, interrupt it or postpone it. Changing this doesn't seem too difficult but Microsoft doesn't get it or doesn't care. However the damage this has done to windows and microsoft reputation is enormous. It's one of the main reasons why for most people PCs (and chromebooks) are the computers that you are given and macs are the computers you want</p>

          • hrlngrv

            Premium Member
            20 January, 2020 - 2:58 pm

            <p><a href="; target="_blank" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><em>In reply to Vladimir:</em></a></p><blockquote><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">when users really want to use other platforms?</span></blockquote><p>Show me users who want to use large spreadsheets or database applications on phones or tablets. Managers may already be using their phones most of the time, and MSFT has lost them, but there are still various HR tasks for which even they're required to use PCs.</p><p>There's not going to be an iOS or Android insurgency in any major enterprise. Workplace and leisure computing are so different that they're unlikely to affect each other significantly, only on the periphery. Consider a forklift vs sedan analogy: sedans are easier to operate, and most people would prefer the simplicity of sedans all the time, but if one's job requires the forklift, too damn bad about personal preferences.</p><p>Also, until it's pleasant to fill out tax returns, edit resumes, etc on mobile devices, there's still going to be uses for actual home PCs, though not one per family member.</p><p>I can't comment on Windows as a gaming OS other than to note that dedicated PC gamers number at least an order of magnitude fewer than smartphone users. IOW, gaming is not representative of leisure computing for the majority of people.</p>

            • bob_shutts

              20 January, 2020 - 3:16 pm

              <blockquote><a href="#514536"><em>In reply to hrlngrv:</em></a><em> As a gamer, I can tell you that I want a PC. Gaming on Mac is a software desert. Also, you need a PC to get NVIDIA GPUs and you want support for DIrectX. Metal has promise, but there is little support for it.</em></blockquote><blockquote><em>This from a person who is in the Apple ecosystem for everything else.</em></blockquote><p><br></p>

              • hrlngrv

                Premium Member
                20 January, 2020 - 4:55 pm

                <p><a href="; target="_blank" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><em>In reply to Bob_Shutts:</em></a></p><p>I accept that PCs are best for gaming. My point is more that most (at least 80%) PC users don't use their PCs for your kind of gaming. If gaming is the future of non-workplace PC computing, that'd imply a substantial decrease in non-workplace PC usage.</p>

                • Vladimir Carli

                  Premium Member
                  21 January, 2020 - 2:17 am

                  <blockquote><em><a href="#514543">In reply to hrlngrv:</a></em></blockquote><p><br></p><p>I think we all agree that there is no better platform than PC for gaming but that’s related to the immense flexibility in hardware support. This flexibility is in turn related to the hardware platform but also to the OS that allows hardware vendors to develop their own drivers and software and embed it in the OS. MacOS doesn’t allow that and that’s why it’s impossible to use an nvidia GPU on it. The problem with this is that Microsoft seems to see the evolutions of Windows as going the Mac path (Windows S, Windows on ARM), basically removing this possibility, while one of the major/only attractive features of Windows from the user perspective is being a legacy platform. </p><p>tbh I don’t know how many non-gamers, non-workplace Windows users there are. I believe they are very few</p>

    • davebarna

      20 January, 2020 - 2:30 pm

      <blockquote><em><a href="#513579">In reply to willc:</a></em></blockquote><p>I my opinion it seems a little unfair to say Windows is a dead platform, and this is coming from someone who has little love for Windows. I am a Commodore to Amiga to PC to Mac to PC to Mac again guy, I am not a coder but I used to write my own Autoexec.bat file back in the day, and even though I am currently drinking the Apple cool aid, I am an active user of many OS's based on all the people I have to help out, so I like to think I know a little something about this subject. Heck I am on this website, that has to say something.</p><p><br></p><p>Back to my point, good or bad, Windows is not going anywhere for the time being, (unlike the comparisons to RIM/Blackberry another reader had), because there is no fantastically great new product that is causing everyone to jump ship and replace Windows with. True Windows has competition, but Macs are expensive and may or may not be good in the gaming market, and Google Chrome is not anywhere near feature parody with Windows or MacOS. However, I think someone would be putting their head in the sand if they don't see the writing on the wall. Windows is going to be on a long slow decline if some things don't get fixed, or changed. What ultimately did it for me was I couldn't get work done any more on my Windows machines. As a self-employed individual, that was a problem. I owned a Surface Pro 2 and most recently a Surface Pro 5 as my main workstations (I have other work stations but the Surface was my main machine). The amount of OS issues astounded me. I purposely installed very little software out of fear of the machine getting bloated. I would only install what was needed for work (AutoCAD, Sketchup, Office including Publisher and MS Project, and Acrobat). That's it. I had to return the latest Surface I using 3 times under warranty. One time the store employee felt so bad for me, he gave me a brand new machine, not a refurbished one. That particular Surface still had issues. Updates frequently didn't work, tiles would go missing (there one second, gone the next…), will it awake from sleep? Maybe, maybe not. Will it turn off? Maybe, maybe not. Will it heat my bag when it was supposed to be off? Of course! Multiple monitor weirdness all on different monitors with similar resolutions. Blinking disk icon when restarting after an update (okay, that one my have been hardware related, I will never know for sure because Microsoft took that one back also)… I saw similar issues on some of colleagues computers. Why when we hit the start button does the whole os crash? I could go on. Did these problems happen all the time? No, but when they do it hurts. What ultimately did it for me was when launching the calculator on a HP Pavillion that is about 3 years old crashed the system. I am not some luddite putting coupon bloatware on these machines. They were all clean and way over powered spec-wise. These machines should have run fine. Especially the computers made by Microsoft.</p><p><br></p><p>The point I want to make is this. As a user, I need to get work done. I am not saying Macs are flawless, they have issues. But nowhere near the amount of issues as a Windows machine. It has been a little over a year since I said my goodbyes to Windows. I have had one time where something weird happened and I was able to fix it after a restart. I still get to use Outlook, OneNote, Office, AutoCAD, etc. The only two I needed to find replacements for were Publisher and Project.</p><p><br></p><p>I am not saying everyone is going to be like me. But I wanted to share my perspective. I think that the truth is somewhere in the middle. Some people may find Windows works fine for them. Others may not. I like that there are choices. I don't want to see windows die, but I think the writing is on the wall for Windows (not MS, just Windows) and I am pretty sure MS knows this as well. Maybe it needs to die so something better can come of it. I would not be surprised if MS's next major desktop OS was named something different. </p><p><br></p><p>Windows is dead. Long live Doors 1.0!</p>

  • minke

    16 January, 2020 - 9:48 am

    <p>I'm no fan of Windows, but it remains the dominant platform for businesses of all sizes in the USA and on home PCs. Wikipedia tells me it's marketshare is 77% globally with Apple at 13%, Chrome at 6%, and Linux at 2%.</p>

    • Gowtham

      16 January, 2020 - 10:52 am

      <blockquote><em><a href="#513608">In reply to Minke:</a></em></blockquote><p>I am not arguing the marketshare data, I am aware that windows is the dominant platform and will be for some time to come. But I think Microsoft has stopped working to innovate in windows in a similar way that apple has mostly stopped on innovating macOS.</p><p><br></p><p>But the difference is that Apple has iOS and macOS to innovate on and Microsoft has no operating system to innovate on. Thats the reason it chose android.</p><p><br></p><p>The only reason Microsoft is relevant in the consumer Market right now is windows (except xbox of course). So once that dies Microsoft will no longer be relevant.</p>

      • kevin_costa

        16 January, 2020 - 10:58 am

        <blockquote><em><a href="#513642">In reply to gowtham_jeyabalan:</a></em></blockquote><p>Windows is just one product from MS. There are tons of other services and products apart from Windows. Your narrow vision limits your capacity to see the bigger picture. </p><p>Windows 10X is at the end of the tunnel, and is the latest attempt to renew the platform. Listen to Mary Jo Foley on Windows Weekly to know what the company has under its umbrella.</p>

        • Paul Thurrott

          Premium Member
          17 January, 2020 - 8:13 am

          Yes, it’s one product. One product that generates ~$10 billion in revenues per quarter, or somewhere between 25 and 33 percent of all of Microsoft’s revenues.

  • rob_segal

    Premium Member
    19 January, 2020 - 4:57 pm

    <blockquote><em><a href="#514372">In reply to willc:</a></em></blockquote><p>Chrome OS doesn't have feature parity with Windows. Android apps on Chrome OS hasn't been the best experience so far. It's still a simple OS for simple tasks. That's what most people probably need, but that doesn't make it equal to Windows in terms of features. And I'm not going to bring up some of the past frustrations expressed by fans of the Mac. Until recently, they believed Apple had their shovels ready.</p><p><br></p><p>Windows is a productivity platform. Most of its users do not want or do not use many of the new features introduced to it. If all they do is refine the product, many Windows users will be happy. Also, with no mobile OS of their own, Microsoft cannot do much to integrate phone and PC like Apple does (with the exception of Your Phone which Microsoft is adding features to).</p><p><br></p><p>Microsoft's compelling products are cloud services and Xbox. Windows is a tool. A piece of the puzzle instead of the whole puzzle. Windows is not being dismantled. </p>

    • hrlngrv

      Premium Member
      19 January, 2020 - 9:38 pm

      <p><a href="; target="_blank" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><em>In reply to rob_segal:</em></a></p><p>FWLIW, I use the Android VLC app on my past-EOS Chromebook because the bundled media player doesn't support every video file type I have. Android VLC is a bit of a pain because it's based on touch controls, so any configuration changes, even setting the volume, requires using the touchpad. PITA indeed.</p><p>That said, maybe the simplicity of Chrome OS would be a better match for tablets. There are offline apps for Chrome OS, so there could be offline, primarily touch-based apps for it.</p>

  • F4IL

    19 January, 2020 - 6:31 pm

    <p>&gt; So from a customers perspective, windows 7 and windows 10 is the same thing except in looks.</p><p><br></p><p>But if they (msft) don't have any new OS technologies to introduce, what would you expect to be different, or at least new? Businesses pay msft to maintain backwards compatibility and legacy code not break it with new and innovative technologies that make enthusiasts happy.</p><p><br></p><p>They have to keep Windows this way because it is the compromise that makes it successful.</p>

    • hrlngrv

      Premium Member
      19 January, 2020 - 9:31 pm

      <p><a href="; target="_blank"><em>In reply to F4IL:</em></a></p><blockquote>Businesses pay msft to maintain backwards compatibility and legacy code not break it</blockquote><p>Just as businesses wanted and expected the same typewriter ribbons be available for 10-year-old typewriters and tractor-feed paper and printer ribbons for mainframe printers. Businesses want to get as much use out of the equipment they buy as they can. This is the problem of one Windows version for work and home/leisure: the customers generating most of the revenues determine the design, and MSFT's enterprise and other business users generate much more than half of total Windows revenues. Those customers want AS LITTLE change as possible, and that means they'll pummel MSFT senseless when MSFT releases anything as UNWELCOME as Windows 8.x.</p><p>MSFT settled on one version of Windows because it's cheaper than multiple versions, and workplace and home usage reinforce each other. However, it's also a trap because it means substantial change will meet considerable resistance if not outright rejection. IOW, MSFT is deep in a ditch of its own excavation, and there's no way they can keep digging to get themselves out of it. If they want to dig a new ditch, they have to use different equipment.</p>

      • karlinhigh

        Premium Member
        20 January, 2020 - 10:22 am

        <blockquote><em><a href="#514424">In reply to hrlngrv:</a></em></blockquote><p>I think the enterprise market is attractive because it's somewhat price insensitive, willing to spend boatloads of cash on products and support as long as they're getting <em>the good one that works for what they want.</em></p><p><br></p><p>But I also think you're right in that once an enterprise has standardized on something, it means just that. Any move away from that standard will have a really high bar to clear for justifying it. If something deeply important to a large workflow has been working well and not changed at all for 20 years, that's exactly what this class of customer wants to see.</p>

    • Paul Thurrott

      Premium Member
      20 January, 2020 - 8:31 am

      No, there have been many other improvements to Windows since Windows 7 shipped. It’s not just looks.

  • webdev511

    Premium Member
    19 January, 2020 - 8:08 pm

    <blockquote><em><a href="#514372">In reply to willc:</a></em></blockquote><p>I don't know what you use a Windows PC for, but no, Chrome OS is about a decade away from feature parity, that's if Google even wanted to get there which I suspect they do not. </p><p><br></p><p>Please supply yearly list of unethical behavior demonstrated by Microsoft since say 2015. Do they have some of the same struggles as any global company w/ 100k employees? Yep. Is there rampant unethical behavior by those employees? Not even close. Satya changed a lot, but not all of the culture. Saying that Microsoft is today as unethical as they were in the late 90's is way off the mark. </p>

  • Bats

    19 January, 2020 - 9:10 pm

    <p>LOL….no. </p><p><br></p><p>You simply are overthinking this and NO ONE in the world really cares. I have said this for the past several years, no one cares about operating systems. What people care about are the apps and that's the reason why Windows is no longer the most popular operating system in the world. The truth is no one cares about Windows. Not just that, but no one cares about Android or even iOS. It's the truth. Again, people care about the apps or the software. You ask a person using a device with an apple logo on it and ask that person what operating system are you using? They will tell you iPhone X or (XR or 7, etc…).</p><p><br></p><p>Consumers don't care about optimized tablet mode or anything else. For years, Thurrott and alot of Windows people kept talking about Android fragmentation. LOL….nobody cared about that and those guys went on to see Google take hold 86% marketshare. Nobody cares about that. </p><p><br></p><p>Microsoft knows this and that's why they are pivoting to things like web apps. The problem is not a leader in consumer technology, therefore they can no longer influence consumers. Apple does that and Google is right there along with them. </p><p><br></p><p><br></p>

    • ghostrider

      20 January, 2020 - 2:53 am

      <blockquote><em><a href="#514421">In reply to Bats:</a></em></blockquote><p>One of the most straightforward and honest answers I've read – your're totally right, the average user doesn't care one tiny bit. If the apps work, that's all they want. Such a big deal was made by Apple about Android fragmentation – "oh look, we can upgrade 98% of the world to the latest iOS in 8 minutes flat". Literally nobody on Android blinked. Google back-porting API's fixed that. Apps just work, and that's what everyone cares about. Same for Windows. Nobody 'loves' windows like Microsoft wanted, it's just a means to an end. More people who run Windows will hate it rather than love it, and most just run Chrome once loaded and the odd win32 app.</p><p>We tolerate a lot of things as humans, but operating systems should just be there as stable, unobtrusive app launchers – exactly what Win10 isn't these days.</p>

    • thejoefin

      Premium Member
      20 January, 2020 - 9:00 am

      <blockquote><em><a href="#514421">In reply to Bats:</a></em></blockquote><p>This comment is so true that techie people (like myself) have a hard time accepting it. As long as there are devices which are good value running Windows and the software remains compatible consumers and businesses will keep buying Windows devices.</p>

    • karlinhigh

      Premium Member
      20 January, 2020 - 9:29 am

      <blockquote><em><a href="#514421">In reply to Bats:</a></em></blockquote><p>Ben Thompson has a comment on this: Once a job's been done by something, it needs a 10X improvement to get users to switch to something else.</p><p><br></p><p></p><p>(near the end, saying how credit cards aren't going away anytime soon.)</p><p><br></p><p>Perhaps the QWERTY keyboard layout is another example. It's not optimal. But so far, most people look at the costs and benefits of alternative layouts and say, nope, switching not worth the hassle.</p>

      • Lauren Glenn

        21 January, 2020 - 9:15 am

        <blockquote><em><a href="#514477">In reply to karlinhigh:</a></em></blockquote><p>Good point.</p><p><br></p><p>You're bringing back back memories in the 80s of the Dvorak layout of keyboards…. I tried using it but I wasn't any faster with it.. realized it wasn't work the effort. </p>

    • lwetzel

      Premium Member
      20 January, 2020 - 11:07 am

      <blockquote><em><a href="#514421">In reply to Bats:</a></em></blockquote><p>They care a WHOLE BUNCH about the operating system when it comes to an APP or PROGRAM is not on the operating system they have. It may be they just want it (as games) but then, I believe, if it is required for them to earn an income. </p>

      • hrlngrv

        Premium Member
        20 January, 2020 - 2:04 pm

        <p><a href="; target="_blank"><em>In reply to lwetzel:</em></a></p><p>That's the point: Windows is AT MOST a means to the end of running software most PC users want to run. Windows is NOT an end in itself, and REPLACING old applications with new is begging for a far smaller user base, and thus far smaller revenues. MSFT is trapped by Windows's success. Jettison Win32 software, and what reason would anyone have for picking a <em>New Windows</em> rather than Linux?</p>

    • Lauren Glenn

      21 January, 2020 - 9:13 am

      <blockquote><em><a href="#514421">In reply to Bats:</a></em></blockquote><p>Not everyone loves web apps. I use Windows because I can work from home with it. Can't do that with Android. Can I set up a SQL Server engine instance on my Android tablet and do designing offline? No. I can run apps on my S6 tablet and remote into a PC or server with it, sure. But for productive needs, I use a PC. For consumption needs, I use the Android tablet. </p>

    • daniel7878

      21 January, 2020 - 9:32 am

      <blockquote><em><a href="#514421">In reply to Bats:</a></em></blockquote><p>true story. I'm a .net developer, so you could say my career is vested in "windows". But if tomorrow I quit to become a truck driver, or whatever,.. a windows pc would be the last thing i would buy.</p>

  • hrlngrv

    Premium Member
    19 January, 2020 - 9:16 pm

    <p>If the MSFT Store were the future, ALL MSFT's own-branded software would be available from it. Damned little MSFT software is in the Store, so it shouldn't come as a shock that most ISVs/3rd party developers are paying as little attention to the MSFT Store as MSFT itself.</p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Idle curiosity: what % of overall Mac software revenues come from Apple's Mac App Store?</span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">As for Windows 10 Tablet mode vs Windows 8.1's Start screen, From what I've read, many Windows tablet users prefer Windows 8.1's UI. As for tablet-specific app offerings, is there as much of an app market for Windows tablets AS TABLETS as there is for Android tablets? Or is Windows tablet use limited to after hours e-reader or video display, but otherwise used almost exclusively as PCs? From a different perspective, is Windows 10 simply too damn bloated to be a good tablet AS TABLET OS?</span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Re MSFT's approach to iOS and Android, maybe MSFT's tilt towards iOS is just another aspect of its immutable US focus, since iPhones make up a significantly higher % of smartphones in the US than worldwide (under 30% worldwide/Europe/China, over 55% in US), so new MSFT apps go to iOS first.</span></p><p><br></p><p><strong style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><em>I think Microsoft will start feeling the heat when the whole lot of windows 7 users switch to chromebooks or macs.</em></strong></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">That should happen a year or 2 after the Year of Desktop Linux.</span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">PC sales and usage may be stagnating, but 85% or so of what remains will go on running Windows. The possible exception to that could be Chrome OS TABLETS. If most people want tablets to have some PC-like functionality like multiple, multitasking, overlapping application windows or separate user accounts, Chrome OS may be a better fit than Android, and Chrome OS is easier to update and secure than Windows while requiring a fraction of the disk space for the OS itself.</span></p>

    • shameermulji

      20 January, 2020 - 7:27 pm

      <blockquote><em><a href="#514422">In reply to hrlngrv:</a></em></blockquote><p>"The possible exception to that could be Chrome OS TABLETS."</p><p><br></p><p>I would more likely say iPads. It still pretty much owns the premium tablet market and approximately 10 million are sold every quarter.</p>

      • hrlngrv

        Premium Member
        21 January, 2020 - 3:23 am

        <p><a href="; target="_blank"><em>In reply to shameermulji:</em></a></p><p>Agreed, iPads own the high-end of the tablet market, but Android tablet shipments outnumber iPad shipments. How? 1- or 2-purpose commercial tablets, e.g, those on the back sides of airplane seats, those serving as menu replacements in some eateries, etc. As well as Kindle Fires and actual end-user Android tablets for the true masochists among us.</p><p>IMO, Chrome OS able to run Android apps but also able to handle multiple overlapping windows and real multitasking would offer a superior tablet experience vs pure Android.</p>

    • Lauren Glenn

      21 January, 2020 - 9:11 am

      <blockquote><em><a href="#514422">In reply to hrlngrv:</a></em></blockquote><p>For me, the best tablet is the Samsung S6. Love this tablet. Good performance, wide screen 16:10 so I can watch my movies and TV shows without cropping for a 3:2 screen, and it just works. I'd use an iPad (and have) but I can't expand it and many features (like Dropbox sync to keep all my music on it) does not exist in iOS. And sure, I could use Apple Music but AM doesn't use hi-res audio either.</p><p><br></p><p>Hook a keyboard and mouse up to it and I have a portable laptop with DeX. Sure, many Android tablets are crap, but the Samsung S6 is probably the best of the bunch so far.</p>

  • codymesh

    20 January, 2020 - 10:53 am

    <p>Windows 10 is fine, and no, Windows 7 holdouts are not switching to macs or chromebooks.</p>

    • illuminated

      21 January, 2020 - 2:57 pm

      <blockquote><em><a href="#514498">In reply to codymesh:</a></em></blockquote><p>I do not see how any rational human would consider switching from windows to mac or chromebook easier than going from windows 7 to 10. </p>

  • reefer

    20 January, 2020 - 12:33 pm

    <blockquote><em><a href="#514372">In reply to willc:</a></em></blockquote><p>Oh man, you really dont have a clue what you are talking about, do you? </p>

  • longhorn

    Premium Member
    20 January, 2020 - 7:01 pm

    <p>I have always said that the regressions in Windows 10 compared to Windows 7 will cost Microsoft up to 500 million users, but more likely 200 – 300 million users. If there was real competition to Windows (Windows is still the best in many ways), Windows would be in danger, but there isn't.</p><p><br></p><p>If Microsoft just could fix the regressions in Windows 10 I think Windows could have a bright(er) future. People are annoyed by Windows 10, but there is still love for the Windows platform.</p><p><br></p><p>Regressions:</p><p>Bloatware</p><p>Forced updates</p><p>Telemetry</p><p>WaaS</p><p><br></p><p>Android and iOS are also crap, but Windows used to be <em>better</em>. Now it's just your average user hostile platform. The magic is gone. The soul of the Personal Computer is gone.</p><p><br></p>

    • hrlngrv

      Premium Member
      21 January, 2020 - 3:09 am

      <p><a href="; target="_blank"><em>In reply to longhorn:</em></a></p><blockquote>If there was real competition to Windows . . . , but there isn't.</blockquote><p>The reason there isn't has little to do with Windows itself but with the application software Windows can run which isn't available on Linux. Pretty much everything large ISVs sell is available for Macs, but Macs are too expensive to be a threat to Windows PCs; however, that leaves obscure smaller ISVs' products, shareware, freeware which exists only for Windows, each with small but fanatically loyal user bases.</p><blockquote>The soul of the Personal Computer is gone.</blockquote><p>Died and was reincarnated as desktop Linux.</p>

    • wright_is

      Premium Member
      21 January, 2020 - 10:43 am

      <blockquote><em><a href="#514563">In reply to longhorn:</a></em></blockquote><p>You can disable the Telemetry by disabling the DiagTrack service. That stops all telemetry transfer – I turned it off on my PCs over 18 months ago, it hasn't affected updates or stability.</p>

  • jimchamplin

    Premium Member
    20 January, 2020 - 7:14 pm

    <p>Im sure some number of users will go Macintosh, but it will still be more than those who go Chromebook.</p><p><br></p><p>However, the largest percentage will simply purchase a new PC with Windows 10. Especially if people like me tell them that it’s great and we like it. </p><p><br></p><p>Which I do. Constantly.</p><p><br></p><p>Relatives ask about Windows 10 and I say “Heck yeah! Get a Thinkpad.”</p><p><br></p><p>If they ask me about going Mac I say “Heck yeah! Get a Mac mini but you’re going to have to get new apps.”</p><p><br></p><p>Because normies don’t care. </p><p><br></p>

    • shameermulji

      20 January, 2020 - 7:25 pm

      <blockquote><em><a href="#514564">In reply to jimchamplin:</a></em></blockquote><p>"If they ask me about going Mac I say “Heck yeah! Get a Mac mini"</p><p><br></p><p>Why a Mac mini?</p>

      • jimchamplin

        Premium Member
        20 January, 2020 - 11:14 pm

        <blockquote><em><a href="#514565">In reply to shameermulji:</a></em></blockquote><p>I felt like saying “Mac mini.” :)</p>

  • hrlngrv

    Premium Member
    21 January, 2020 - 3:14 am

    <p><a href="; target="_blank" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><em>In reply to willc:</em></a></p><p>The nearby Charles Schwab office has kiosk 'PCs' running in guest accounts on Chromeboxes. Any business which needs to provide browsers to customers or visitors would almost certainly be better off using Chromeboxes rather than Windows PCs.</p>

  • Lauren Glenn

    21 January, 2020 - 9:07 am

    <p>I think MS realizes that the scope of this is changing and that the OS is not the primary driver of their userbase. It's why they put the apps on iOS and Android, focused more on the cloud…. very good moves. </p><p><br></p><p>Anyway…. I like the Windows 10 store but I never go in there for anything. It's not easy to find anything and for most things, I use a search engine and find it that way. No approvals, no nothing… it just goes and is done. Even looking for PocketCasts took a few iterations for it to find it and not show a bunch of knock off apps or apps that aren't even relevant. Then, most of the time, it doesn't even update them automatically and I have to go in there and check for updates…. </p><p><br></p><p>Even with a tablet, I never really use tablet mode and never saw the point. With Win8? Maybe. </p><p><br></p><p>One thing that drove me back to Win10 is the ease of getting things done. I don't have to deal with a command line, odd syntax I'm not adept at, and having to look up a manual to do it. Win10 is just straightforward. Linux requires more effort for me and does less for me, so I don't use it. Mac? I can't afford that and even with that, they deprecate them faster than Windows. Android deprecates faster than iOS and Windows. </p><p><br></p><p>I got an 8 year old PC with Win10 licensed in it… put a $150 graphics card in it and I can play Rocket League at 60fps at 1080p. I'm happy. Cost me $115 for the PC shipped too. The openness of the PC industry and support will probably keep Windows around for a bit. Even "year of Linux" never materializes…. why would another company come along with a paid OS at this point?</p><p><br></p><p><br></p>

  • evox81

    Premium Member
    21 January, 2020 - 9:44 am

    <blockquote><em><a href="#514541">In reply to willc:</a></em></blockquote><p>"<em>Windows 10 is unusable</em>"</p><p><br></p><p>The computer I'm using right now suggests otherwise. </p>

    • wright_is

      Premium Member
      21 January, 2020 - 10:41 am

      <blockquote><em><a href="#514663">In reply to evox81:</a></em></blockquote><p>The 300 plus Windows 10 PC I look after also suggest that it isn't unusable… I've not had any complaints from users so far, that they can't work.</p>

  • Daishi

    Premium Member
    21 January, 2020 - 5:50 pm

    <blockquote><em><a href="#514627">In reply to Greg Green:</a></em></blockquote><p>Of course Nadella also took their cool mobile kids out behind the barn with a shotgun. Maybe living in the basement isn’t so bad…</p>

  • lwetzel

    Premium Member
    22 January, 2020 - 11:09 am

    <blockquote><em><a href="#514947">In reply to ghostrider:</a></em></blockquote><p>"but it has a lot more issues than win7, and win8.1&nbsp;"</p><p><br></p><p>I do not agree with especially win7. I have never experienced a BSOD on window 10 and when something does cause a issue it is usually resolved with the application being shutdown and needing to be restarted. </p><p><br></p><p>No, I'll take Windows 10 over any previous version and I have been there since the first IBM PC and MSDOS.</p>

    • crp0908

      23 January, 2020 - 9:50 am

      <blockquote><em><a href="#515044">In reply to lwetzel:</a></em></blockquote><p>I agree with Ghostrider. At least with Windows 7, we had the System Update Readiness Tool – with a little knowledge from the Advanced guidelines for diagnosing and fixing servicing corruption article, we felt like we could fix just about any problem involving system level corruption. Windows 10's equivalent, dism /cleanup-image /restorehealth, although easier to use, is much less powerful. We find we have to reimage Windows 10 machines much more often than we did with Windows 7 because of this.</p>

    • ashakantasharma

      05 February, 2020 - 11:52 am

      <blockquote><em><a href="#515044">In reply to lwetzel:</a></em></blockquote><p>Agree…I love MS Windows 10 and is not facing any issues even with Windows Insider Program Slow Ring. Microsoft is continuously fixing and improving day by day with its app and entire ecosystem.</p><p><br></p><p>The problem is that people do not know how to maintain aN OS and blame the OS for their own misdeeds.</p><p><br></p><p>You have to regularly clean and maintain the OS (Use CCleaner)</p><p>You have to defrag the drives for better performance.</p><p>You have to defrag and compact the registry </p><p>You have to use CHECKDISK function to check for any Bad Sectors and repair the same</p><p>You have to get sufficient RAM for programs to run as required.</p><p>You have to keep sufficient free space for the OS to function</p><p>You have to switch to 64bit for better utilization and management of applications and System Hardware</p><p>You have to keep OS and Security Softwares updated to latest version and updates</p><p>You have to keep all hardwares drivers updated with latest ones.</p><p>You have to keep Bios Updated.</p><p><br></p><p>No OS in this COSMOS can function properly it it is not maintained properly.</p><p><br></p><p>MICROSOFT WINDOWS 10 OS IS THE GREAT OS TILL NOW BY MICROSOFT WITHOUT ANY SECOND THOUGHT.</p><p><br></p>

  • Patrick3D

    05 February, 2020 - 12:33 pm

    <p>ChromeOS = 0.8% of marketshare, it's less than Linux. Get over yourself.</p>

    • Paul Thurrott

      Premium Member
      06 February, 2020 - 8:43 am

      What’s its marketshare in education? Oh right. Oops.


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