What would make you leave Windows?

What would Microsoft have to do, to drive you to leave Windows?


It would be if Microsoft dropped Win32 support, or did something crazy, like dropping support for processors only a few years old.

Fortunately I hope to continue using Windows 10 for the foreseeable future. 🙂

Conversation 84 comments

  • jimchamplin

    Premium Member
    25 July, 2017 - 7:59 pm

    <p>The Windows 10 Creators Update. I keep Windows around now only for a couple of games that don't run on macOS.</p><p><br></p><p>I hope that Metal and Metal 2 graphics will change that going forward.</p>

    • Tim

      Premium Member
      26 July, 2017 - 12:07 pm

      <blockquote><a href="#153186"><em>In reply to jimchamplin:</em></a></blockquote><p><br></p><p>Until that update, I was dual booting into Linux and Win 10.</p>

      • jimchamplin

        Premium Member
        26 July, 2017 - 4:15 pm

        <blockquote><a href="#153610"><em>In reply to Tim:</em></a></blockquote><p>Are you full-time Linux now?</p>

        • Tim

          Premium Member
          26 July, 2017 - 4:48 pm

          <blockquote><a href="#153709"><em>In reply to jimchamplin:</em></a></blockquote><p>No, I find that Ubuntu in Windows is sufficient. This is for dev work. I should be clear, i <strong><em>like</em></strong> the Creators Update</p>

  • hrlngrv

    Premium Member
    25 July, 2017 - 8:19 pm

    <p>Dropping Win32 support on client SKUs while keeping it on Server would be a clear indication that they wanted to make Windows a toy OS running toy UWP apps. Ain't gonna happen because that'd be inviting their enterprise customers to put their must-have software on Windows servers and run remote desktops on local machines running anything, not just Windows. That'd invite OEMs to sell new PCs with no OS preinstalled, and stop paying MSFT for Windows licenses.</p><p>Excel and 2 COM add-ins I use with it are necessary for my work. They don't run acceptably under Crossover under Linux, so I still need Windows for that. Everything else I use runs under Linux. Then again, I'm very odd here: I don't run Adobe anything or games.</p>

    • offTheRecord

      27 July, 2017 - 4:33 am

      <blockquote><a href="#153190"><em>In reply to hrlngrv:</em></a></blockquote><p>I mentioned this in a comment stream somewhere along the way (and attracted a slew of down votes, of course), but we moved most of our work PCs to Linux soon after Windows 10 was released. We'd been a pure Windows shop pretty much since the days of DOS. We'd been playing with Linux on a few PCs, however, and when Windows 10 came out and ended up breaking our data production process we moved all of the involved PCs to Linux. Since everything pretty much runs on open source software, it was fairly straightforward to get everything moved over (and, surprisingly, the few custom Win32 apps we still use run just fine with WINE 2). There was a learning curve for some of us, of course, but I've got to say that, so far, Linux has been much more stable than Windows (in general, including Windows 10).</p><p><br></p><p>I still have a laptop with Windows 10 (1607) because I need to run Office (I use Office 2010, which is so much faster than 2016), but we're doing some tests to see if LibreOffice will cut the mustard. We edit some macro-heavy Office documents for a client (hence, the need for Office), </p>

  • ErichK

    Premium Member
    25 July, 2017 - 8:48 pm

    <p>Funny you should bring this up, because I just bought a refurbished Dell OptiPlex and put Ubuntu on it. But it has more to do with my desire to integrate Linux into my skillset rather than a true desire to leave Windows completely.</p><p><br></p><p>I personally don't think there is anything so horribly wrong with Windows right now that I would want to jump ship. Yet.</p>

  • Dan

    25 July, 2017 - 8:54 pm

    <p>Already have. Work provides a Windows laptop for work stuff and I used an iPad Pro and my iPhone for everyhting else not work related. There's an app for everything and if you can't do it in the app then there's a web browser that fills the rest in.</p>

  • Roger Ramjet

    25 July, 2017 - 11:14 pm

    <p>Maybe if they asked me to buy a toaster, and then buy a refrigerator …</p>

  • Jules Wombat

    26 July, 2017 - 6:03 am

    <p>Windows itself </p><p><br></p><p>Too bloated, complicated, excessive secuirity leaks, excessive updates, excessive maintenance and support costs for most modern users. So most of us through choice have moved on. Windows is just left to those poor souls in Business and at Work stuck with legacy Applications. </p>

  • Polycrastinator

    26 July, 2017 - 8:24 am

    <p>Seriously considered it over ads in the file explorer, TBH. Microsoft thankfully seem to have backed off that, but if it returns, I may jump ship.</p>

  • Patrick3D

    26 July, 2017 - 10:15 am

    <p>I keep trying to leave Windows but:</p><p>Linux = Automatic updates break the operating system requiring days of scouring obscure forums for even more obscure console commands to manually configure hardware devices in such a way that make changing jumpers on a motherboard look as easy as playing with Lego sets. Even server updates break bone-headed simple things like Samba support.</p><p>MacOS = If Apple released the OS separate of the hardware so I could "officially" install it on my own system then I would dump Windows in a heartbeat. I'm not going to pay the "Apple Tax" for hardware that only gets supported for 2 years then blocked from future updates as a means of forced obsolescence.</p><p>ChromeOS = Sorry, but I need a real OS, not a locked down web browser.</p>

    • hrlngrv

      Premium Member
      26 July, 2017 - 2:48 pm

      <p><a href="#153486"><em>In reply to Patrick3D:</em></a></p><p>I haven't had any problems with Linux automatic updates for Linux Mint, Ubuntu, or Bunsen Labs clients. Maybe it's a Debian vs RPM issue.</p>

    • GT Tecolotecreek

      26 July, 2017 - 4:00 pm

      <p><em>…for hardware that only gets supported for 2 years then blocked from future updates as a means of forced obsolescence.</em></p><p>Wow if that was true it would really be bad. BTW I'm posting this from my Early 2008 PM Pro on El Cap. Sierra came out the Fall of 2016 so I got 8 years of use before new (Sierra) OS support stopped for the hardware. My Early 2013 MB Pro currently runs the new High Sierra beta so that is 4 years already. And my 2013 5s iPhone runs the current version of IOS. Lot more than 2 years. </p>

      • wunderbar

        Premium Member
        26 July, 2017 - 11:28 pm

        <blockquote><a href="#153707"><em>In reply to GT_Tecolotecreek:</em></a></blockquote><p>Was hoping someone had already said this. Apple's software support is, frankly, fantastic. That's partly because they have few hardware configurations to support, but the fact remains they support their hardware as well or better than any other OEM, hands down.</p>

  • JustMe

    Premium Member
    26 July, 2017 - 10:27 am

    <p>Oddly enough, Windows itself. </p><p><br></p><p>I feel the OS has become far too bloated. Microsoft seems intent on giving us what they want us to have instead of what we want or need. I feel like I am ceding control of my own machine to Microsoft, and that doesnt sit well with me. It would be one thing if I had the option to only pick up security updates, but I dont – I am forced to pick up feature updates, even when its something I wont use. I abhor the advertising and data collection mechanism that is now baked into the OS, and I'd pay real money to have a version that had zero ads – anywhere – along with zero data collection about what I use and how I use it. As for telemetry in general, I just wish there was a complete off switch.</p><p><br></p><p>Linux has come a long way, and runs most (but not all) of what I need. I dual boot now, and as VM technology continues to mature, I will eventually just run Windows in its own VM until I dont need it anymore.</p>

  • Oasis

    Premium Member
    26 July, 2017 - 12:19 pm

    <p>Well they stopped supporting Vista so the machine went to Lubuntu. I have 4 others, 3 Windows 2(2P, 1H) and a Win 8.1 and when when they come to EOL or MS decides their processors are too old, they will migrate as well. No Windows 10 in this house.</p><p>Newest computer is 4/2015 and it has W7P, so good till 2020….</p>

    • Lauren Glenn

      07 October, 2017 - 2:10 pm

      <blockquote><a href="#153622"><em>In reply to Oasis:</em></a></blockquote><p>What's wrong with Win10? Apparently the keys will still let you install the Win10 upgrade as far as I'm aware….</p>

      • Oasis

        Premium Member
        13 October, 2017 - 1:14 pm

        <blockquote><a href="#204799"><em>In reply to alissa914g:</em></a></blockquote><p>Maybe they will finish it by 2023….</p>

  • Elindalyne

    Premium Member
    26 July, 2017 - 12:21 pm

    <p>At this point probably nothing.</p><p><br></p><p>Go install a printer on a Linux box. If you're not familiar with it have fun setting up CUPS or whatever your particular distro uses for printing. Got a printer that isn't supported out of the box? Maybe you'll get lucky and there will be a PPD provided by openprinting.org. If not, have fun actually compiling them from source. </p><p><br></p><p>Is it doable? Absolutely. Is it worth the time an effort? Absolutely not. It totally reminds me of the bad old days of manually adding drivers via Device Manager. Sure you can do very powerful things via the terminal, but you can also very easily break things. Generally you can recover, but I'd prefer the ease of use with Windows over spending most of my time messing with things.</p><p><br></p><p>As for Macs, the pricepoint is too high for something that I can't use for gaming.</p>

  • SgtShultz

    26 July, 2017 - 12:58 pm

    <p>I'm already in the process of leaving. I don't game so the move to MacOS hasn't been an issue. Jules_Wombat pretty much sums up my reasons above.</p>

  • rameshthanikodi

    26 July, 2017 - 8:47 pm

    <p>If games go Vulkan and run on Linux, and if pro apps from Adobe arrive on Linux. It's unlikely to happen though.</p>

  • qwerty2002

    27 July, 2017 - 5:57 am

    <p><span style="background-color: rgb(245, 245, 245); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Seriously considered it over ads in the file explorer, TBH. Microsoft thankfully seem to have backed off that, but if it returns, I may jump ship. </span><a href="https://goo.gl/guwyZB&quot; target="_blank">ทางเข้าเล่น sbobet</a></p>

  • 2ilent8cho

    27 July, 2017 - 6:26 am

    <p>I more or less already did. I use to love Windows, but now i actively avoid it.</p><p><br></p><p>For me It started with Vista, i don't know what Microsoft did at this point but Windows turned into a bloated pig with Vista. Windows 2000 was so lean and responsive , as was XP but no more. The quality dropped in Vista too, it was not until SP2 that Vista was usable, it shipped for example being twice as slow as XP doing basic things such as file copy, and accessing network shares was painfully slow. </p><p><br></p><p>Now Windows 7 was based on Vista SP2 so a lot of issues were ironed out and it felt a bit more responsive than Vista and by this point most hardware shipped with lots of RAM making many people forget what a bloated pig Windows has become.</p><p><br></p><p>Then we have the worst OS in history ever, Windows 8, i have NEVER EVER got violent around a computer until i tried to use this as my OS. Frustrating and jarring at every click of the mouse. Windows 8.1 made things more bearable but it was still to much like Windows 8.</p><p><br></p><p>Things have not got much better in Windows 10, people being tricked into installs (absolutely disgusting behaviour) , inconsistent GUI , and then things changing so much because its Windows as a service like Paint going bye bye. The fact so many still download Start8/Start10 should show how wrong MS have the GUI still on Windows. </p><p><br></p><p>So Microsoft don't have to do anything anymore to drive me from Windows, they started alienating me 10 years ago and made me in 2012 do what i thought i would never ever do as a once big Windows fan, buy a Mac. I am so glad i did though, MacOS seems consistent GUI wise for the last 17 years they have not moved things around like MS do just for fun. It needs very little maintenance and does very little nagging. I still have the odd VM or old laptop running Windows for when i have software that will only run on Windows. I did have a big learning curve jumping to Mac, its hard when you have been doing things the Windows way for 20 years, but once you learn how to navigate it and use all its cool things its an actual pleasure to use.</p><p><br></p><p>A few days ago i was watching videos on youtube of the old versions of Windows with things like the Plus! pack installed and brought back so many memories of when Windows use to be fun. </p><p><br></p><p>I think Microsoft are there own worse enemy , they don't know when they are doing things right and really well, they then change things and annoy their user base. Xbox 360 amazing, Xbox One badly received because they destroyed everything the 360 did so well and then they scratch their head wondering why the PS4 is beating them so much. Why are Microsoft so blind now to these things?</p>

    • jimchamplin

      Premium Member
      27 July, 2017 - 7:23 am

      <blockquote><em><a href="#153908">In reply to 2ilent8cho:</a></em></blockquote><p>I agree that there was a general loss of quality for the NT 6.x releases and they've never fixed any of it. I didn't see massive CPU or disk use for tens of minutes at a time by random system services until Vista. What a great "feature!" Make the system absolutely unusable for twenty minutes… RIGHT WHEN THE USER STARTS DOING SOMETHING. </p><p><br></p><p>10 seems to have really brought it all into sharp focus, IMO. It's like the ten year old issues stand out more when they exist alongside all new garbage. My favorite is how the UWP API can break and end up in an unusable state where no UWP apps will launch. Not even Settings, preventing you from accessing troubleshooting tools which never work. TOP QUALITY.</p><p><br></p><p>You bring up macOS, and I have to point out something Apple does regularly. A release that focuses on cleanup, bug smashing, code refactoring, and good maintenance. Snow Leopard, Mountain Lion, and upcoming High Sierra are all refinement releases.</p><p><br></p><p>Is MS capable of shutting up about useless features and delivering a version that improves on the one before it in quantifiable ways? Don't think so.</p>

    • Greg Green

      30 October, 2017 - 8:54 am

      <blockquote><a href="#153908"><em>In reply to 2ilent8cho:</em></a></blockquote><p>Late response but generally I agree about the loss of excitement with windows. I recently bought a laptop and spent hours updating and configuring and halfway through the process I remembered when this used to be fun. It seemed that it used to be quicker and when it was done there was a smile as I started to wrk on the new machine. Now it was just a tedious chore going through and finding all the privacy switches, deleting unwanted apps one by one, bringing color back to title bars, trying to add color borders to windows, discovering buttons that were nearly undiscoverable, being sent from the Settings interface to Cotnrol Panel interface and back again, even seeing what seemed like an XP style dialog box once, and so on. I'd rather mow the lawn.</p>

  • WP7Mango

    27 July, 2017 - 7:18 am

    <p>If I couldn't do what I need to, on Windows, then I might consider leaving, assuming something else would actually be able to&nbsp;fill that gap.</p><p><br></p><p>But I really like Windows 10, and everything I have works fine, so I certainly won't be leaving by choice.</p>

  • StudBen

    27 July, 2017 - 8:36 am

    <p>I couldn't, I like the FULL support for PC gaming. Overall not a huge fan of MacOS never had been and I've used it plenty of times this is more a personal preference though. If I had to leave I'd probably end up on Ubuntu I'm not huge on Linux but I'd prefer it over MacOS. I will emphasis that any platform choice will come with it's issues so ultimately it comes down to what we are most comfortable with and where we have the least issues. I've seen more then enough freezes, crashes, and beach balls on MacOS I probably run into issues just as often on it, again this is all personal experience it will vary depending what you use or need for programs. </p>

  • StevenLayton

    27 July, 2017 - 8:56 am

    <p>Theyd have to brick up my house. I use my Windows every day. </p>

    • jimchamplin

      Premium Member
      04 September, 2017 - 6:20 pm

      <blockquote><a href="#153918"><em>In reply to StevenLayton:</em></a></blockquote><p>?</p>

  • navarac

    27 August, 2017 - 10:04 am

    <p>The latest 3 builds of 10 Pro have accelerated my thoughts about ditching Windows. I run a Linux machine that does all I want except gaming and that is fine including the printer. These lat 3 builds seem to have changed the USB coding that disables the Laser printer. As for 10 S which I have tried this last week, it is truly unusable. Win32 apps inc Chrome cannot be installed – even Linux will under WINE. Microsoft seems to be "protecting users from themselves" by making the system a 5-year old's toy!</p>

    • PhotM

      Premium Member
      27 August, 2017 - 10:55 am

      <blockquote><a href="#168999"><em>In reply to navarac:</em></a></blockquote><p>I agree with you SOME but perhaps for different reasons. ALWAYS keep in mind the Insider Program is for advanced Users that understand that THEY are BETA testing. There will be BUGS and it is highly possible your printer issue is a Bug. </p><p>Even on the Production OS's MS has had numerous Bugs with peripheral, mainly printers, in the CU's</p>

      • Tony Barrett

        27 August, 2017 - 12:02 pm

        <blockquote><a href="#169003"><em>In reply to PhotM:</em></a></blockquote><p>Insiders maybe BETA release 1 testers, but everyone else are BETA release 2 guinea pigs. Because of the release cycle MS now work to, they're under no pressure to make sure the O/S is rock solid anymore. They push out any old junk, then release patches as they go to try and stabilise it. In the meantime, everyone using it just suffers.</p>

        • PhotM

          Premium Member
          28 August, 2017 - 10:41 am

          <blockquote><a href="#169008"><em>In reply to ghostrider:</em></a></blockquote><p>Your ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, though I would modify your tone on "any old" and "junk" to some software maybe rushed and some coders maybe less than stellar in their output(there are some really good people at MS, and as usual, some not so much). </p><p><br></p><p>After saying that I agree with you 100%, Windows 10 will always be a BETA!. OS stability is still a thing for W 8.1 and earlier and even on them, MS is still fixing Bugs not related to Security!</p><p><br></p><p>As Paul has eluded to, I blame the upper management and executives for this quandary and dilemma of windows never being finished, much like phones. Hey MS, my PC/Laptop and even Tablet are not phones!!! I would not be surprised to see this attitude that has developed in the phone industry catching up to them in time.</p>

          • Tony Barrett

            30 August, 2017 - 6:40 am

            <blockquote><a href="#169137"><em>In reply to PhotM:</em></a></blockquote><p>Yeah, terminology maybe not great. It's just frustrates me that when Windows had a 3 year dev cycle, what you ended up with (generally, with some exceptions), was a very robust O/S that needed little core updating – just security patches. Now, you get something that's more about loading on new features than sorting out stability, just to try and get new users onboard – that's what it's all about for MS now. Such a shame, and servicing a desktop O/S like a mobile device just doesn't work, whichever way you cut it.</p>

      • navarac

        29 August, 2017 - 4:52 pm

        <blockquote><a href="#169003"><em>In reply to PhotM:</em></a></blockquote><p>Running Steam in 16275 crashed the pc as well. Yes I know they're probably bugs, but the printer will print pdf's with CTRL P.</p>

    • Lauren Glenn

      27 August, 2017 - 11:32 am

      <blockquote><a href="#168999"><em>In reply to navarac:</em></a></blockquote><p>Question though….. why would you try 10-S if you planned to run Win32 apps on it? The only reason for its existence is to get people to move to UWP or container apps and into the store.</p>

      • navarac

        29 August, 2017 - 4:49 pm

        <blockquote><a href="#169006"><em>In reply to alissa914g:</em></a></blockquote><p>Just to see if I could live with 10S. The answer was "No way ".</p><p><br></p>

        • Lauren Glenn

          07 October, 2017 - 2:09 pm

          <blockquote><a href="#169625"><em>In reply to navarac:</em></a></blockquote><p>Gotcha. After owning a Windows RT machine, I wouldn't go to a 10-S machine and would pay to upgrade it if I had to. Now, if RT now ran x86 and x64 apps with their emulator, then maybe…. but for a home computer, I don't see anything with ARM being nearly as fast as AMD or x64 chips.</p>

  • PhotM

    Premium Member
    27 August, 2017 - 10:46 am

    <p>For me, it would be if MS were to make it impossible for advanced consumers to control/lock down Windows Update as well as any other key areas. Right now the Registry and <span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Registry </span>Permissions are ones FRIEND in this area and all of that is possible. They have done so, to such an extent, that MS has "given in" and openly highlight the controls in a few later builds(IP) and allows one to actually display how the OS is being controlled in WU. That is a huge advancement to towards REALITY for Microsoft.</p>

  • Lauren Glenn

    27 August, 2017 - 11:34 am

    <p>I honestly wouldn't. The only viable options are MacOS and Linux. Every time I install Linux it works but getting new apps or programs to work on it is always a chore. And they don't run as well as they do on Windows performance wise, so I always end up going back to Windows.</p><p><br></p><p>And with MacOS, I'd have to buy an expensive, under-powered Mac to run it or build a Hacintosh (which defeats the purpose since I'd have to spend more money to run something Apple doesn't want me to run)…. making it easier to run Windows and get better performance from it.</p>

  • Tony Barrett

    28 August, 2017 - 6:13 am

    <p>If I didn't have dependencies on some win32 software I'd leave Windows tomorrow. Win10 does nothing for me, and Microsoft's attitude and treatment of customers has just been generally shocking.</p>

  • John Scott

    28 August, 2017 - 11:29 am

    <p>In some ways I have already left Windows. Not that I would ever probably completely abandon Windows OS. I just tend to use other devices with other operating systems these days. I'm not one to threaten to go all Linux or buy a Chromebook. But I could if I wanted to go that direction much easier then a few years ago. I most certainly am much more OS independent today and I think that's actually very good. </p>

  • dfalin

    28 August, 2017 - 12:10 pm

    <p>Windows 10 is a good OS. Please get rid of Candy Crush and all the other junk apps from the windows store. On Windows 10s I could see that. But not on Windows 10 Pro. Getting sick of these junk apps. </p>

    • jimchamplin

      Premium Member
      29 August, 2017 - 4:01 pm

      <blockquote><a href="#169148"><em>In reply to dfalin:</em></a></blockquote><p>No, don’t remove them from the store, only the default installation. They belong in the store. </p>

  • sgtaylor5

    28 August, 2017 - 12:11 pm

    <p>Already am leaving Windows. I don't run the newest hardware (it's a few years old) and Windows 10 is forcing me to buy much newer hardware, which is not happening on a broad scale. Windows 10 simply disables drivers for older hardware as W10 updates arrive, so there's nothing that can be done. Had to quit using a Dell Latitude E6220 from 2011, because the trackpad's drivers were disabled. This laptop worked fine with 1607; broke with 1703.</p><p><br></p><p>I will have to get a newer video card for the server, though.</p><p><br></p><p>Rather spend my money on a 2012 MacBook Pro, which can be upgraded to a point. JimChamplin brought up a good point, and <span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Microsoft</span> needs to do this as well: Start a Reliability Initiative, like they did with their Trustworthy Initiative before. I can always find a more reliable alternative to any <span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Microsoft</span> product on any platform.</p>


    28 August, 2017 - 2:34 pm

    <p>I too have already left … sort of. I use a Windows PC but only as a Gaming / Software Development workstation. I do not keep any of my personal files, photos, music, and movies in Windows. I use a MacBook Pro for all that – being inside Apple's high quality eco-system has immeasurable benefits when you use an iPhone. Microsoft really screwed up with phones – it was a must-do operation and they "Phoned" it in … pun intended. </p>

  • Bill Russell

    28 August, 2017 - 5:22 pm

    <p>Even at work my windows PC has become "second fiddle" to my Ubuntu machine which is primary and I remote desktop to the windows one. Since my small business uses Office 365, I actually only use the web version now, works great on Chrome on Ubuntu. I am down to Keil uVision and Atmel Studio for programs I need Windows for. I am not out to "ditch" windows where it doesn't make sense, but prefer not using it where not necessary. I also prefer feeling less worried about ransomware, so I just run the browsers on the LInux side and try to avoid running things from online on Windows. I do a weekly backup using cygwin to an Ubuntu server.</p><p>At home is Ubuntu and chromebooks, and a Mac (wife's company issued) except for a Gamer that also uses a win 7 rig, but Ubuntu for school. I also have not been happy about MS's attitude toward customers. I have no interest in Windows 10 – I've used it here and there on newer work laptops.</p><p><br></p><p><br></p>

  • Ron Diaz

    29 August, 2017 - 7:40 am

    <p>I went Mac a bit over a year ago myself for my desktop and laptop with my Windows 7 laptop switched to Linux Mint. I just got sick and tired of all the nonsense Microsoft is doing with Windows 8 and Windows 10.</p>

  • Bob Shutts

    29 August, 2017 - 10:52 am

    <p>As much as I love my Macs, if you're in the enterprise, you'll find much better support in the world of Windows. I'm a small business guy, so I can manage with Macs just fine in this environment.</p>

  • yaddamaster

    29 August, 2017 - 12:13 pm

    <p>1) Touchscreen Macbooks. If you're a developer then Macbooks are already a great choice.</p><p>2) Microsoft continuing to make zero headway in the consumer space. This already appears to be pretty much a given.</p><p><br></p><p>I love Windows 10. It's a great OS. But the ecosystem for consumers is shrinking.</p>

  • MattBaker

    29 August, 2017 - 12:44 pm

    <p>A MacBook with a touchscreen and a keyboard that didn't make my fingers hurt.</p><p><br></p><p>If that existed, I'd be gone.</p>

  • MacLiam

    Premium Member
    30 August, 2017 - 10:33 am

    <p>No specific tests come to mind, but peaking broadly — Jump if Negative. </p><p>My status as an Old Retired Guy who no longer has any connection to or real need for the cloud/enterprise services that constitute Microsoft's future pretty much puts the handwriting on the wall. At some point — maybe two years, maybe 10 — there just won't be any real reason for me to hang around any more. The last shred of my brand loyalty will disappear on the day that Microsoft announces they are sunsetting the last of the features that for a quarter century have defined what makes Windows valuable to individuals in the broad consumer market. So it goes.</p><p>Maybe I'll move to the Cupertino solution, or maybe I'll just try to keep my Windows devices running in a way that lets me work the way so many diehard XP and Win 7 users are still working today. </p><p>Or maybe we will all deal with Coming Global Mind on the Neolotihic and Bronze Age model — simply speaking to it and telling it what we want it to do.</p><p><br></p>

  • yaddamaster

    30 August, 2017 - 10:38 am

    <p>Having thought about this some more, what may kill Windows for good (not overnight but officially begin the slide downward with momentum) is some Android manufacturer offering a Continuum feature. That plus more app not being offered on Windows may seal the deal.</p><p><br></p><p>If the apps I want aren't on Windows app store, the web versions are crippled or less featured, and the apps I DO want are on another platform……at that point is there a choice to be made?</p><p><br></p><p>Last night I went to install the Instagram app from the app store. Can't do it because I don't have DirectX 9. DirectX 9. Which requires Windows XP. Now granted, this could be because I'm on Insider Fast Ring but seriously – this level of stupidity where someone at Microsoft isn't daily going through the list of top apps that should be supported is amazing to me.</p><p><br></p><p>I think we're closer than I ever thought to Windows being relegated to the same position OSX is in.</p>

    • hrlngrv

      Premium Member
      30 August, 2017 - 3:18 pm

      <p><a href="#169745"><em>In reply to yaddamaster:</em></a></p><blockquote>. . . what may kill Windows [. . .] is some Android manufacturer offering a Continuum feature. . .</blockquote><p>You mean like Samsung DeX?</p><p>It may not kill off Continuum alone. It may demonstrate that docking phones appeals to few phone users.</p>

    • Finley

      Premium Member
      03 September, 2017 - 1:03 pm

      <blockquote><a href="#169745"><em>In reply to yaddamaster:</em></a></blockquote><p>I'm in the same boat</p><p><br></p><p>I am using my phone more and more these days for tasks and going to my laptop less</p>

      • yaddamaster

        10 September, 2017 - 10:51 am

        <blockquote><a href="#171823"><em>In reply to Finley:</em></a></blockquote><p>yup, and for 90% of things I use my laptop because typing is easier on a laptop and the larger screen. The other 10% (Finale, Reaper, dev stuff) I could keep my desktop around.</p>

    • Alastair Cooper

      08 September, 2017 - 5:08 pm

      <blockquote><a href="#169745"><em>In reply to yaddamaster:</em></a></blockquote><p><br></p><p>You can install the DirectX end-user runtime from the Microsoft Download Centre which includes DirectX 9 (not defending Instagram or Microsoft since this shouldn't be necessary but hopefully might be helpful).</p>

      • yaddamaster

        10 September, 2017 - 10:50 am

        <blockquote><a href="#175013"><em>In reply to Alastair_Cooper:</em></a></blockquote><p>Yeah, I've actually tried installing a few different DirectX packages (don't recall which exactly) and none of them work. I gave up after 20 minutes. I'll just use my Android phone……</p><p><br></p><p>Which kind of gets to my point. Other than development (which i could do on a Mac), there's really nothing Windows-specific I need for 90% of my daily stuff that couldn't be accomplished on a dumb laptop I could connect my phone to. </p>

  • hrlngrv

    Premium Member
    01 September, 2017 - 12:37 am

    <p>Maybe it's just the Insider builds, but if I have to keep removing Candy Crush etc every @#$%&amp;*! time I log in, that may get me to cease trying to use Windows 10 and just stick with Windows 8.1.1 until 2023.</p>

    • hrlngrv

      Premium Member
      30 October, 2017 - 2:02 pm

      <p><a href="#171235"><em>In reply to hrlngrv:</em></a></p><p>In fairness, the RS4 Insider builds so far haven't reinstalled the cruft. Also, on my normal Windows 10 PC, I have 1709, and I'm not seeing the cruft, but I use a local account.</p>

  • helix2301

    Premium Member
    01 September, 2017 - 7:33 am

    <p>I use Macbook Pro and iPhone for my daily driver and I do have quite few Apple customers. But the majority of my customers are Windows which is great because Apple does not have greatest enterprise solutions. I do have a small customer base on G Suite and with chromebooks. Then I have some with Linux servers. My point is I live in a mixed world, Most of the app development we do is for iOS and a little Android. For me I love Microsoft products and I think 365 is leaps and bounds a head of gsuite. Our office runs on 365 for business and I have personal OneDrive account and Groove account. As far as laptop being Macbook pro and iPhone they work best for me because I switch so much between platforms. If I had more windows store work I would need more then just a windows vm from time to time. </p>

  • VonBrick

    01 September, 2017 - 8:17 am

    <p>I've already moved on. After moving to an iPhone a few years ago, the final pieces were Apple TV's and a Macbook Pro this last Spring. Everything works perfectly together and I haven't yet missed the Windows 'ecosystem' save for my old Lumia. Damn but I miss the Windows Phone. ;(</p>

  • waverunning.geek

    02 September, 2017 - 3:43 pm

    <p>Microsoft and Google are their own worst enemies.</p><p><br></p><p>Microsoft screwed me over with OneDrive not once but twice in the past two years. First they pulled a bait and switch with OneDrive by selling unlimited subscriptions then getting rid of them after people actually used them. Then they stopped supporting ReFS drives on the consumer side (business side still supports it) which forced me to move my data off of a bunch of PCs and reformat to NTFS which is technically inferior to ReFS.</p><p><br></p><p>Then Google screwed everyone with the Nexus 6p. There's currently a class action lawsuit pending due to a widespread battery issue and they won't replace the phone unless you purchased it directly from the Google Store (like that even matters).</p><p><br></p><p>Unlike these two POS companies who could care less about consumers, Apple stands by their customers. And there's stores all over the place with people willing to help if you get into a jam.</p><p><br></p><p>I started off with Apple with the Apple ][c when I was a kid. Eventually I switched to PCs when the military trained me to be a Windows Sysadmin, but when I get home at the end of the day, I don't want to have to tech support my own stuff. And I want to know if something goes wrong, the company I got the tech from will stand behind it and provide decent customer service.</p><p><br></p><p>Apple does these things, which is why it has the highest customer satisfaction rate in the industry and is one of the most valuable companies in the world.</p><p><br></p><p>I really wanted to go all in on the Windows 10 ecosystem because I still believe dynamic icons (Live Tiles) are better than static ones, but I've had it with companies that don't stand by their customers or can't get their mobile strategy figured out.</p><p><br></p><p>So if the iPhone 8 lives up to the hype, I'll probably start the painful and expensive process of moving over to all Apple stuff. It may be a walled garden, but at least the view is pretty from the inside.</p>

  • Robert Hawkins

    04 September, 2017 - 4:29 pm

    <p>Just left a few weeks ago. Not totally though, I run Windows 10 on my MacBook Pro as I have some legacy apps from work that only use Windows.</p><p><br></p><p>Only reason I left is because the company I'm working for now all use MacOS and Final Cut Pro. That doesn't mean I'm completely out of Microsoft as I'm using Office on the Mac, but regardless, never thought I'd leave a Windows PC.</p>

  • MikeGalos

    04 September, 2017 - 9:50 pm

    <p>For me it would take somebody actually having an actual new architecture rather than the bag on a bag on a bag that is every Windows competitor that's based on the *ix architecture from the 1960s.</p><p>Windows NT is architecturally ancient dating as it does from the state of the art in the late 1980s but the competitors all are based on what wasn't even state of the art in the late 1960s but was introduced as a quick and dirty cheap subset of Multics which by then was getting a bit old.</p><p>Seriously, unless we see a major breakthrough, the best we've got is technology from the Reagan era but it's at least not from the days of Lyndon Johnson.</p>

    • Delmont

      30 October, 2017 - 9:15 am

      <blockquote><a href="#171953"><em>In reply to MikeGalos:</em></a></blockquote><p>And here comes Mike with his gibberish….. </p>

  • rob_segal

    Premium Member
    04 September, 2017 - 10:28 pm

    <p>Several things are driving me away from Windows, evident by me typing this post on a MacBook Pro.</p><p><br></p><p>UWP apps drive me crazy. I understand the need for a new, modern app environment, but UWP is far from where it needs to be. It's too simple. Huge UI elements. Really bad content density. Even for touch, it's silly. The calculator app is a joke. The mail and calendar app need a lot of work. UI consistency seems to be getting worse. I hope fluent design helps out. I expect it not to.</p><p><br></p><p>With Office 2016, Visual Studio, and .NET Core development on Mac OS, I do not need Windows nearly as much as I used to. I have Parallels and a Windows 10 Pro license in my back pocket for those rare occasions when I need it. I'm going to try SQLite and MySql as well as the mssql extension for Visual Studio Code. I can still use Adobe Premiere if I want to and I have the opportunity to use Final Cut Pro.</p><p><br></p><p>Windows 10 still needs work on its fundamentals. Instead of finishing the work they started, Microsoft is busy adding sprinkles to a melting bowl of vanilla ice cream. Yes, I know Mac OS has its problems, some of which I've been able to fix with 3rd party apps, but Windows 10 is still very unrefined and inconsistent.</p>

  • matsan

    08 September, 2017 - 4:14 am

    <p>I have now left Windows after a second windows-rot-induced-reinstall of my Windows 10 Creators Update machine in 3 months. I am a software developer using many different tools so my use case is probably more power-user than consumer. I have several java-machines, SDKs and probably waaaaay too many files for Windows to handle (hundreds of git-projects).</p><p><br></p><p>Looking what fellow developers of the same tools are using I see Macs, Macs and Ubuntu. My HP EliteBook is now reinstalled with Ubuntu 17.04 and all the tools I need are there. I first gave the excellent Solus distro a try but while excellent for normal users, the lack of compatibility with some development libraries made me go for ubuntu instead.</p><p><br></p><p>Thank you Microsoft for finally forcing me to leave your platform and really get creative!</p>

    • Delmont

      30 October, 2017 - 9:14 am

      <blockquote><a href="#174818"><em>In reply to matsan:</em></a></blockquote><p>I'm curious what pc are you or were you using for such heavy work? I would hope an actual workstation enterprise class machine from Dell or HP.</p>

      • matsan

        07 November, 2017 - 9:48 am

        <blockquote><a href="#211515"><em>In reply to Delmont:</em></a></blockquote><p>Sorry – did not get a notification from the forum. </p><p>I'm running a HP EliteBook 840 G4 i7-U7500 with 16GB RAM / 512GB SSD and external disks. Now on Ubuntu 17.10 with two 4K external monitors hooked up through the HP docking station with several external harddrives (for huge VMs).</p><p>Running local databases and dev tools from JetBrains.</p><p><br></p><p>Performs very well even when on the road, but battery life (mainly due to Linux not being so optimized as Windows) is just around 6 hours.</p>

        • Delmont

          08 November, 2017 - 9:55 am

          <blockquote><a href="#213768"><em>In reply to matsan:</em></a></blockquote><p><br></p><p>I have a couple of friends that do the same type of work as you and they use Ubuntu too.</p>

  • Lauren Glenn

    07 October, 2017 - 2:04 pm

    <p>If Windows 8 didn't make me leave, I don't think anything will. I like being able to buy components at stores knowing that they'll work at 100% capacity for what they're marketed for. With Mac or Ubuntu, it's not close for that.</p><p><br></p><p>Besides, I use iTunes store for getting my TV shows since it's one of the few store options where they let you download the shows to your PC. Sure MS TV/Video does that too, but after losing Groove, it's probably a matter of time before that goes away too…. now, if they enabled UltraViolet for MS Video store, then I'd rather go there.</p><p><br></p>

  • Riki Smith

    09 October, 2017 - 11:18 am

    <p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Contact us 18668661752 Microsoft&nbsp;customer service toll free number.If you have any problems related to Microsoft then call 18668661752.&nbsp;Contact us 18668661752 Microsoft&nbsp;customer service toll free number.If you have any problems related to Microsoft then call 18668661752.&nbsp;Contact us 18668661752 Microsoft&nbsp;customer service toll free number.If you have any problems related to Microsoft then call 18668661752.&nbsp;</span></p>

  • Delmont

    30 October, 2017 - 9:24 am

    <p>I have installed the new Falls Creator Update on 7 pc's. 3 have failed and/or been a fist fight and days of labor to get it going. Of those 3 I had to wipe the pc and re load fresh with the ISO from Microsoft that includes the Falls Creator Update. And these 3 pc's: Dell OptiPlex, Lenovo Thinkpad and a Dell Dimension. How in the hell does this happen? There is nothing funky loaded on these machines. All 3 are 2-3 years old. </p><p><br></p><p>So what would make me leave Windows for the first time in 30 years? This continual crap level of stability. Oh on 1 machine I got the FCU going, Edge was total crap, froze on every web page. I found some Power Shell script to run off a Microsoft Forums page and that fixed it. What that scrip did, I have no clue. But I am totally fracking fed up with Windows. I've supported it my entire career. But after 25 years, I'm about done.</p><p><br></p><p>So, what would it take me to leave? Show me a MacBook that can run Office 365, OneDrive, Chrome, NOT blue screen, and updates that actually install and work!</p><p><br></p><p>PS. I am in contact with some 3rd level Microsoft Tech Support, they really have no clue either. Hell, I found the PowerShell script to run myself. Their answer is: Call Dell, it's gotta be a hardware issue, wipe and re load. WTF? Oh… you'll love this one… It's a partition error! Not enough space in one of the hidden partitions…. again wtf??… the God damn SSD is standard from Dell. Odd all the other major updates from Microsoft installed fine. </p><p><br></p><p>I already live 80% off my iPhone 8… maybe I would be better moving to a Mac for integration.</p>

    • hrlngrv

      Premium Member
      30 October, 2017 - 2:00 pm

      <p><a href="#211517"><em>In reply to Delmont:</em></a></p><blockquote><em>. . . </em>Not enough space in one of the hidden partitions . . .</blockquote><p>A fine indicator of bloat. Will 1803(?) also find too little space on the recovery partition?</p>

      • Delmont

        31 October, 2017 - 11:16 am

        <blockquote><a href="#211608"><em>In reply to hrlngrv:</em></a></blockquote><p>No joke. And today I wait for a call from some 3rd level Microsoft Tech to trouble shoot why Edge still locks up on some web pages and why my pc blue screens 3-4/day. </p>

    • moruobai

      31 October, 2017 - 4:08 pm

      <blockquote><a href="#211517"><em>In reply to Delmont:</em></a></blockquote><p><br></p><p>FCU is just a total mess IMO. Installed on 3 machines – two of which are less than a year old. On two machines it completely crashed both systems. I've rolled back and they are working fantastic again. On the third (a SP4) it's working but it's noticeably buggy: funky lag from BT mouse when system starts and occasional Start menu and UWP app crashes requiring reboot. </p><p><br></p><p>This update is <em>not at all ready for rollout</em>, nor is it up to Microsoft's standards. </p><p><br></p><p>For like the firs time in forever I had also entertained the idea of leaving Windows because of this update. Before rejecting it.</p>

      • Delmont

        07 November, 2017 - 11:35 am

        <blockquote><a href="#212237"><em>In reply to moruobai:</em></a></blockquote><p>Me too, me too.</p>

  • Daekar

    31 October, 2017 - 5:40 pm

    <p>They would have to seriously mess up consecutive updates. But I have a good deal more patience. If we ever ditch any ecosystem, it will be because my wife "is just done" and her frustration will propel us somewhere else. </p><p><br></p><p>She loves her Surfaces, but Windows and OneDrive have been giving her fits lately. If they push her too far she'll buy an expensive Android tablet out of spite and drop Windows. And it will be my job to provide IT support and solutions for whatever she wants to use. </p>

  • lecter

    08 November, 2017 - 7:01 am

    <p>One word (as also mentioned by Brad in an article): Excel. If full Excel existed natively on a "modern" platform (and by modern I mean Android or iOS, not macOS), an iPad with monitor output, cursor support and separate kb &amp; mouse would make me ditch Windows for both home and work.</p><p><br></p><p>At home I barely use the Windows PC anyway, it mainly exists as a NAS solution (and only the cost is keeping me from moving to an appliance-like dedicated NAS) and a place to play strategy games. Given that the Xbox is getting cursor support, I expect that strategy games like Civ or AOE will soon arrive for it, so I should be able to give up home use of a PC entirely.</p><p><br></p><p>Work use being one of those "have to" situations, without full Excel support I don't see it happening. </p>

  • Tony Barrett

    08 November, 2017 - 9:21 am

    <p>I hang on to my Win7 PC for a few apps I use that are Win32 only. I'd drop Windows in a heartbeat if I could, and probably will at some point. It's just more trouble than it's worth, and is really just 30 year old technology given a lick of paint every now and then. On the bright side, at least sticking with Win7 makes my life a bit easier. I've had a Win10 laptop for about 3 months now, and have had so many problems with the OS in that time. Latest one involved an attempted update to 1709 which broke so many things I'm back on 1703 – just. </p>

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