Windows 10 is a better tablet OS than Chrome OS, huge opportunity for Microsoft

The iPad is clearly the tablet leader, but there is still a huge opportunity here for Microsoft. The Pixel Slate running Chrome OS makes it official: Google isn’t using Android on tablets anymore. So the battle for 2nd place in the world of tablets is between Windows 10 and Chrome OS, and Windows 10 is definitely the better tablet OS of the two. And then there’s brand reputation that has to be considered. When people think of the Pixel line, they don’t think of rock solid reliability and QA, and most people still are more comfortable with Windows than they are Chrome OS.

With Qualcomms fast Windows-optimized chips coming out next year, we could even see Microsoft solidify their 2nd place in the tablet world, I just don’t see how Chrome OS could compete with upcoming Qualcomm powered Windows 10 tablets (I’m guessing the Surface Go 2 will be Qualcomm-powered and fantastic all around). Would love to hear everyone’s thoughts on this, I really didn’t think that in 2018/2019/2020 there would still be an opportunity like this in the tablet space, I would have guessed it would be an iPad/Android duopoly just like smartphones. I hope Microsoft puts up a real fight here, it would be a shame if they don’t

Conversation 58 comments

  • VancouverNinja

    Premium Member
    27 November, 2018 - 1:22 pm

    <p>Chrome OS is a dead platform. </p><p><br></p><p>2019 may be the year all of Microsoft's planning for a complete ecosystem comes together. If it does both Google and Apple will be severely disrupted by Microsoft.</p>

    • Maktaba

      27 November, 2018 - 2:33 pm

      <blockquote><em><a href="#373305">In reply to VancouverNinja:</a></em></blockquote><p>“2019 may be the year all of Microsoft's planning for a complete ecosystem comes together.”</p><p><br></p><p>Or falls apart.</p>

    • shameermulji

      27 November, 2018 - 3:06 pm

      <blockquote><em><a href="#373305">In reply to VancouverNinja:</a></em></blockquote><p>This is the equivalent of "Year of Linux on the desktop". I'll believe it when I see it. It it happens to work out for MS, good for them.</p>

    • hrlngrv

      Premium Member
      27 November, 2018 - 3:46 pm

      <p><a href="https://www.thurrott.com/forums/microsoft/windows/thread/windows-10-is-a-better-tablet-os-than-chrome-os-huge-opportunity-for-microsoft#373305&quot; target="_blank"><em>In reply to VancouverNinja:</em></a></p><blockquote>2019 may be the year&nbsp;. . .</blockquote><p>Haven't you written essentially the same thing for 2017 and 2018?</p><p>I figure the year all MSFT's planning comes together will be right around the year of desktop Linux.</p><p>Other than MSFT itself and its most ardent fans, no one wants MSFT OS hegemony again. Too little competition makes MSFT slow, lazy and sloppy. Thus 2008 to 2015, the era MSFT and its fans believed it had a chance with phones. Too bad MSFT was too slow and too sloppy. As for lazy, that was Windows 8 and its way too obvious design as a way to force PC users to get used to the Windows Phone UI.</p><p><br></p>

      • VancouverNinja

        Premium Member
        30 November, 2018 - 2:51 pm

        <blockquote><em><a href="#373457">In reply to hrlngrv:</a></em></blockquote><p>I have been saying this for at least a year. From all indications, and most recently Brad's book, I think I am pretty close to being right on target.</p><p><br></p><p>We just rolled out a trial of the MS Surface Headphones and we were caught off guard by the the amount of team members that want them. </p><p><br></p><p>We got this message from one of the trial members this morning</p><p><br></p><p>"W<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">as going to wait until you got in but the noise cancelling headset <img draggable="false" class="emoji" alt="?" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/11/svg/1f44d.svg"><img draggable="false" class="emoji" alt="?" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/11/svg/1f44c.svg"><img draggable="false" class="emoji" alt="?" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/11/svg/1f44c.svg"><img draggable="false" class="emoji" alt="?" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/11/svg/1f44c.svg"><img draggable="false" class="emoji" alt="?" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/11/svg/1f44f.svg"&gt; AMAZING"</span></p><p><br></p><p><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">As for MS hegemony – stop living in the 90's everything has changed. Google is now the evil tech company, Amazon is new to our tech lives, and Apple is well Apple. Microsoft is a completely different company and there is no way the other 3 are a better option than Microsoft. After MS, Apple is good if they were not so unbelievably restrictive and overcharging all of its users; which I believe has hit an all time level of obscene.</span></p>

    • FalseAgent

      27 November, 2018 - 4:31 pm

      <blockquote><em><a href="#373305">In reply to VancouverNinja:</a></em></blockquote><p>wait, isn't Chrome OS still growing? as long as it's growing, it's not dead. </p>

      • cayo

        27 November, 2018 - 5:24 pm

        <blockquote><em><a href="#373499">In reply to FalseAgent:</a></em></blockquote><p><br></p><p>According to Statista, it is not growing. </p><p><br></p><p>https://www.statista.com/statistics/218089/global-market-share-of-windows-7/ </p>

        • hrlngrv

          Premium Member
          27 November, 2018 - 7:04 pm

          <p><a href="https://www.thurrott.com/forums/microsoft/windows/thread/windows-10-is-a-better-tablet-os-than-chrome-os-huge-opportunity-for-microsoft#373535&quot; target="_blank" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><em>In reply to cayo:</em></a></p><p>Seasonality, the bane of the statistics challenged.</p><p>Statista shows <em>market share</em>. Does that mean OSes preinstalled on new devices sold, or does it mean usage share? Either way, a drop-off between April-May and June-July on either side of the vast bulk of US school's end of school year and summer vacation would be a rather obvious time to expect reductions in sales and usage. And if you go back over several years you see the same drop-off between April-May and June-July followed by the same increase from June-July to August-September. This sort of thing is a mystery to you, is it?</p>

          • cayo

            27 November, 2018 - 7:17 pm

            <blockquote><em><a href="#373606">In reply to hrlngrv:</a></em></blockquote><p><br></p><p>No, I actually completely agree with you here. This pattern clearly shows that this OS is hardly in use outside US schools. </p>

      • shameermulji

        27 November, 2018 - 6:58 pm

        <blockquote><em><a href="#373499">In reply to FalseAgent:</a></em></blockquote><p>ChromeOS is growing a lot in the K-Grade 12 education and even that only the USA. </p>

        • hrlngrv

          Premium Member
          27 November, 2018 - 7:39 pm

          <p><a href="https://www.thurrott.com/forums/microsoft/windows/thread/windows-10-is-a-better-tablet-os-than-chrome-os-huge-opportunity-for-microsoft#373604&quot; target="_blank" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><em>In reply to shameermulji:</em></a></p><p>Chome OS usage is catching on in primary/secondary education outside the US. I believe it's becoming standard in some Canadian provinces, Sweden and New Zealand. There are likely others, but those are the ones I've read about.</p>

          • robincapper

            27 November, 2018 - 8:15 pm

            <blockquote><em><a href="#373655">In reply to hrlngrv:</a></em></blockquote><p>Not sure what they are choosing but NZ Education system offers all the major OSs</p><p>education . govt . nz / school / running-a-school/technology-in-schools / software /</p>

          • VancouverNinja

            Premium Member
            30 November, 2018 - 2:54 pm

            <blockquote><em><a href="#373655">In reply to hrlngrv:</a></em></blockquote><p>All the countries you have mentioned have used Chrome OS in the schools for years. No real growth to be seen.</p>

        • VancouverNinja

          Premium Member
          30 November, 2018 - 2:53 pm

          <blockquote><em><a href="#373604">In reply to shameermulji:</a></em></blockquote><p>???</p><p><br></p><p>There is no growth at all. They actually shrank a tiny bit over this year. They may have hit peak market share and now it will interesting to see if they can maintain the beachhead or if MS starts to eat away at it. </p>

  • rob_segal

    Premium Member
    27 November, 2018 - 2:34 pm

    <p>Microsoft doesn't app a mobile app and services ecosystem that comes close to Android/ChromeOS and that will matter most to users. A better tablet UI is nice, but if there are only a few quality modern apps, users will choose an OS that has more apps. A simpler OS is another advantage ChromeOS/Android has.</p>

  • hrlngrv

    Premium Member
    27 November, 2018 - 3:40 pm

    <p>If Chrome OS can run Android (phone) apps as well as Linux software in containers along with Chrome apps, PWAs and web apps, what'd be Windows 10 app advantage specifically for tablets? You're right that more people are familiar with Windows, but on PCs. Windows on purely tablet devices is fairly rare, so unwise to assume mass familiarity.</p><p>There's no question Windows 10 is the preeminent OS for tablet <strong><em>PCs</em></strong>, much less grounds to believe it's a strong #2 for tablets as leisure devices.</p><p>As for brand reputation, when I see Acer or Asus, reliability isn't the first thought which crosses my mind. As for those with some experience using Chrome OS, what unreliability do you mean? I've been using a Chromebook for nearly 6 years, and I haven't come across any problems remotely comparable to MSFT's 1809 sh*tstorm.</p>

  • dcdevito

    27 November, 2018 - 8:04 pm

    <p>I have a (perhaps dumb) question for Windows 10 tablet users (I have a desktop so I don't know this)….</p><p><br></p><p>With PWAs/Chrome apps ( I use many of them) – can't you just dock them to your taskbar and launch them in tablet mode on a windows Tablet and it would work just like (or better than) Chrome OS as a tablet??</p>

  • Tony Barrett

    28 November, 2018 - 7:44 am

    <p>I'd disagree. I can see why Google are pushing ChromeOS on tablets now – especially as most can run Android apps. It makes sense. ChromeOS actually works very well in touch mode – it's fully functional, and the UI layout works well. Android apps are all built for touch, so again, they work. Win10 tablet mode, on the other hand is actually worse than Windows 8, and has some problems. MS seem to just have ignored tablet mode, because, let's be honest, there are very few actual Windows tablets out there. Surface 2-in-1's can operate in tablet mode, but I've never seen anyone using it this way. I don't think Win10 and touch, especially because most people still use Win32 apps, is never really going to be a big thing.</p><p>ChromeOS will be accepted as a tablet capable OS, and it works well, but Fucia is the one to watch when (if?) it ever appears. That would potentially merge ChromeOS and Android, and could be a killer OS. iPad is just iPad. Built for touch, and very popular, but iOS is looking very, very dated now, so it will be interesting to see how Apple go forward with it.</p>

  • PeterC

    28 November, 2018 - 8:34 am

    <p>Ive been chewing over replying to your comment for hours. So to be clear these are just my opinions which people will disagree with etc, but whatever, lets go. </p><p><br></p><p>Ive owned and used "Surface" in one incarnation or another since they were released. Tablets have proved themselves to be highly portable and excellent content consumption devices, the only tablet ish device that has claimed any real content creation potential is the Surface Pro, but in all reality only when in desktop mode, and often when connected to monitor etc. We now have the pixel slate and ipad pro in the mix too, but in my opinion its still really early days for anyone to claim any kind of victory when it comes to tablets and content creation. I can easily throw a variety of day to day tasks at all 3 options and they would fail miserably at them, each in their own unique way.</p><p><br></p><p>With regards windows, the only variant of windows that had "the potential" to be a content creation interface was win 8.1. Now it didn't have what was actually needed to do the tasks, but the 8.1 navigation method was very touch friendly and could have been a ground base to develop a successful and different windows interface for tablets to be more productive and creation tools. I always thought MS made the mistake of combining the desktop and tablet OS. Surface Pro needed to be a tablet, Surface Laptop for example is a desktop etc.</p><p><br></p><p>After all these years of using the surface(s) I come back to questioning really whether full Windows should be used on tablets, when a tablet is viewed as a primary touch based device that is both portable and powerful. <u>I'm of the opinion full windows IS NOT SUITED to this type of hardware device</u>. Im totally convinced of that sentence too.</p><p><br></p><p>Looking back, Surface RT was office apps and some content consumption in a locked up variant of windows. Back then I was adamant that I wanted all my "windows software" on my tablet and it was travesty that it was neutered and couldn't be done etc etc blah blah blah. So all those years later, I have….. an ipad that does my content consumption and a docked surface pro that does my desktop computing, and on occasion become my portable laptop ish tablet thing. Its looney. I have all my windows software on the tablet, that has to be docked and connected to a large monitor so I can use it !!!!! </p><p><br></p><p>Would a modern re-incarnation of surface RT that ran MS apps and android apps be enough for me. Totally. Sat next to decent desktop/laptop and syncing would be fine. Are there any consumers in numbers out there to buy big time into MS again – NO.</p><p><br></p><p>However if MS were to have developed a more touch/inking UI for windows that hasn't seen the light of day yet which could be installed say alongside full windows then the real Surface Pro potential that is still sitting there would be unleashed. But im not seeing any signs MS are doing that. To do it would indicate MS will again one day take a tilt at volume hardware as a business strategy, and I don't see that under Nadella at all.</p><p><br></p><p>I look at the ipad Pro and go, if MS release Full Office for it, that can run my scripts code macros etc, would I switch. Its possible, very possible. (But i'd still have to dock it to a larger monitor for much of my productivity use).</p><p><br></p>

    • shameermulji

      28 November, 2018 - 12:51 pm

      <blockquote><em><a href="#373923">In reply to PeterC:</a></em></blockquote><p>"the only tablet ish device that has claimed any real content creation potential is the Surface Pro"</p><p><br></p><p>Disagree. There are many apps on available for the iPad Pro that will help you create content, whether it's documents, video, illustration, audio, not to mention that Photoshop for iPad Pro is releasing next year.</p>

      • PeterC

        28 November, 2018 - 1:08 pm

        <blockquote><em><a href="#374085">In reply to shameermulji:</a></em></blockquote><p>I don’t disagree, but my points are from a 5 year surface user, the iPad Pro is more recent and for me is now becoming a viable option, if full MS office is released for it. Ok I could use the online portal, but I don’t on my surface pro so that’s my guide in this.</p>

    • William Clark

      28 November, 2018 - 1:49 pm

      <blockquote><em><a href="#373923">In reply to PeterC:</a></em></blockquote><p>I don't really think of a Surface as a "tablet". To me it's a laptop in a tablet form-factor. It runs full Windows. Sort of like taking a motorcycle engine and putting into a chassis with 3 wheels doesn't make it a car, it makes it a 3-wheeled motorcycle. As such it's not really fair to compare a Surface with an Android or even iPad tablet. They run mobile OSes which have obvious limitations when compared to a Windows device. </p><p><br></p><p>Also, I believe that both Android and iPad tablets can do well in certain types of content creation. No, you're not going to compile code on an iPad but that doesn't mean you couldn't write code on the tablet and upload to a compiler on a server in the cloud somewhere. And when it comes to content creation what does that really mean? People use this argument all the time to say tablets can't be used for "real" work. But when you consider what the majority of people do at work, it's emails, reading and editing documents and spreadsheets, using the Web to search for information, filing expense reports, booking travel and so on. All of which can be done on a tablet. </p><p><br></p><p>We have been trying to abstract the operating environment from the hardware for years and we've done that with server virtualization, software defined storage/networking, and now cloud and containers and server-less functions. I think the future is less about Windows, Chrome OS or iOS/Android and more about purchasing a device that supports the services and functions I need to run on a daily basis. </p>

      • PeterC

        28 November, 2018 - 2:18 pm

        <blockquote><em><a href="#374136">In reply to waclark57:</a></em></blockquote><p>&gt;&gt; <em style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: transparent;">And when it comes to content creation what does that really mean? People use this argument all the time to say tablets can't be used for "real" work. But when you consider what the majority of people do at work, it's emails, reading and editing documents and spreadsheets, using the Web to search for information, filing expense reports, booking travel and so on. All of which can be done on a tablet.</em><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: transparent;"> </span></p><p><br></p><p>Absolutely – content creation and real work, as you put it, is whatever work anyone is tasked with at any given time. The list you mention though would be better achieved on a Surface Laptop, with its screen size, more than a Surface Pro, in my opinion. I dock my Surface Pro to use larger screen sizes and use an i7 8Gb variant. Its tablet sizing makes it supremely portable and baggable. BUT Windows 10 aint no tablet and touch first OS. I hold my ipad and Surface next to each other and repeatedly go "now if only they were combined"……….</p>

        • shameermulji

          28 November, 2018 - 3:12 pm

          <blockquote><em><a href="#374188">In reply to PeterC:</a></em></blockquote><p>"I hold my ipad and Surface next to each other and repeatedly go "now if only they were combined"………"</p><p><br></p><p>MS had that, or at least the idea of that, with Surface RT. </p>

          • PeterC

            28 November, 2018 - 3:24 pm

            <blockquote><em><a href="#374253">In reply to shameermulji:</a></em></blockquote><p>yes I agree. Sadly I/we didn't necessarily appreciate that at the time. Shame we all got so wrapped up in the Windows 8 start/desktop drama and the problems installing it on our existing PC's. </p>

  • justme

    Premium Member
    28 November, 2018 - 9:05 am

    <p>Hmmm…I dont know that I agree. As someone who still runs Windows 8.1 on a Surface Pro 3 – the building blocks for Microsoft to have a touch OS were in 8.1. In Windows 10, tablet/touch support is lackluster and they still havent fixed the 8.1 connundrum, namely a lack of supporting software ecosystem (read: app store that people use). Because Microsoft…well, Microsofted it…there are virtually no Windows tablets out in the wild (discounting the Surface line). I have rarely ever seen anyone use a Surface in tablet mode (not seen a Go in the wild, apart from in a store) – its almost always used as an ultra-portable laptop. The really sad thing? The best touch-based browser I have used is actually the Metro/Modern version of IE. Firefox, Chrome, whatever – can all be modestly tailored for touch, but not as easy as MetroIE.</p><p><br></p><p>Contrast that with ChromeOS. It can mostly run Android apps, which are built for touch from the get-go. Android apps, of which there are loads, with a large working store infrastructure that is already in place. If you add any sort of web app, and even Linux apps to that, what possible advantage would Windows 10 have?</p><p><br></p><p>Put another way – when people think Windows, they think *programs*, not apps. Tablets dont generally run programs.</p>

  • waethorn

    28 November, 2018 - 9:14 am

    <p>Wow. The delusion is strong with you.</p><p><br></p><p>Surface tablets have a history of reliability problems, and Windows 10 isn't even close to being a good tablet OS.</p><p><br></p><p>Chrome OS is the new face of Android on tablets now. Get over it.</p>

    • Daekar

      28 November, 2018 - 9:41 am

      <blockquote><em><a href="#373955">In reply to Waethorn:</a></em></blockquote><p>I keep on hearing that Windows 10 isn't suitable for a tablet, but if it works on tablets like it does on the touchscreen of my laptop, I really can't fathom why. Aside from smaller touch targets, which is a Godsend for command density and utility, what could the issue possibly be? Tap to click, tap and hold to right-click…?</p>

      • waethorn

        28 November, 2018 - 11:08 am

        <blockquote><em><a href="#373958">In reply to Daekar:</a></em></blockquote><p>There aren't any apps that are specifically geared towards Windows 10 that aren't already on other platforms. Even Microsoft gave up on Office Mobile, and the Win32 touch mode is a joke. Most OEM's have given up on touchscreens on laptops, with only a handful of models offering them anymore.</p>

        • William Clark

          28 November, 2018 - 12:47 pm

          <blockquote><em><a href="#374022">In reply to Waethorn:</a></em></blockquote><p><em>a handful of models offering them anymore.</em></p><p><br></p><p>No offense meant but are you smoking crack or something? A simple search on Best Buy shows 236 models of laptops with touchscreens.</p>

          • waethorn

            28 November, 2018 - 4:51 pm

            <blockquote><em><a href="#374082">In reply to waclark57:</a></em></blockquote><p>I went to Best Buy Canada's website. I only had it show Best Buy products, not products sold through Best Buy by another reseller. I excluded Chromebooks, Google Pixelbooks, and Microsoft Surface units, and anything that is obviously discontinued. I count about 70 in total that have touchscreens, and that isn't even excluding the 11 open box units out of that. That's out of a possible 3012 laptop units in total on their site. Considering that Windows 8 was supposed to usher in an era of ALL-TOUCH systems, that's pretty sad.</p><p><br></p><p>Care to apologize?</p>

        • Daekar

          29 November, 2018 - 6:41 pm

          <blockquote><em><a href="#374022">In reply to Waethorn:</a></em></blockquote><p>I think you're assuming that an app that would be useful on a tablet has to be a modern app. That's patently false. I routinely use Win32 apps with the touchscreen on my laptop without issue when I feel like avoiding the trackpad. The way Windows 10 is, the hundreds of thousands or millions of Win32 applications out there are now touch-enabled.</p><p><br></p><p>I think you're cherry-picking the models of laptop that you pay attention to, or exaggerating the fact that yes, some laptops still ship with non-touch. That's fine. It doesn't change the fact that touch works just fine on that hardware which supports it.</p>

    • William Clark

      28 November, 2018 - 1:10 pm

      <blockquote><em><a href="#373955">In reply to Waethorn:</a></em></blockquote><p>I have to agree that the reliability comment in the article seemed a bit off. While Windows has been pretty stable it's far from perfect and most people still have an impression in their heads that all problems on Windows are fixed by Ctrl-Alt-Del.</p>

  • William Clark

    28 November, 2018 - 1:31 pm

    <p><em style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">I just don’t see how Chrome OS could compete with upcoming Qualcomm powered Windows 10 tablets</em></p><p><br></p><p>Well you haven't been paying attention then have you? First, the ARM based Windows devices that we have seen have failed miserably. I'm sure it's going to get better but that won't happen overnight. Second, Google is kicking Microsoft's ass in the Education market with Chrome Books. They have done that largely due to price. And when it comes to who is comfortable with what OS, kids<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> are</span> generally comfortable with all of them. If they start out on Chrome Books they are likely to have a preference for Chrome Books down the road.</p><p><br></p><p>Where MS wins is with gamers and corporate users. Gamers need high performance graphics, fast disk and lots of RAM. Corporate uses have mostly avoided tablets due to lack of full application support and the occasional, in-house, proprietary app. Chrome Books and Android tablets just haven't taken off in most of Corporate America.</p>

    • shameermulji

      28 November, 2018 - 3:09 pm

      <blockquote><em><a href="#374124">In reply to waclark57:</a></em></blockquote><p>"They have done that largely due to price.&nbsp;"</p><p><br></p><p>Price is only half of the equation. The other half is the real ease of deployment and management.</p>

      • William Clark

        28 November, 2018 - 5:07 pm

        <blockquote><em><a href="#374252">In reply to shameermulji:</a></em></blockquote><p>That is true. Deploying and managing Windows devices is far more difficult. I sold to Educational Institutions for many years. Every school had it's own ideas of what was best but most of them eventually wound up with Chrome Books. The hardware was cheaper and the SW licensing and support was cheaper (and easier to manage).</p>

      • VancouverNinja

        Premium Member
        29 November, 2018 - 6:44 pm

        <blockquote><em><a href="#374252">In reply to shameermulji:</a></em></blockquote><p>Education is always under financial stress. It is more about the money than the platform. Do not try to kid yourself on this point. </p>

  • wolters

    Premium Member
    28 November, 2018 - 6:46 pm

    <p>I've had real world experience with ChromeOS as a tablet. My primary machine is a Surface Book 2 and I don't see that changing any time soon. </p><p><br></p><p>I had a Pixelbook for several months with the stylus. The keyboard and trackpad were amazing. So comfortable and a joy to use. Truly loved the hardware. ChromeOS wasn't bad since I do a lot of work on web sites or progressive web apps. And for most of the time, Android Apps weren't too bad. The OneNote app didn't have a spell checker so that was huge for me but the Stylus worked well with it, if not a tad laggy. </p><p><br></p><p>The app drawer was a complete mess. Hardly any way to organize it and it also carried over your synced desktop shortcuts…while I see the value in this, it made the main app drawer so messy. You could make folders but sorting of all of that was just plain bad. </p><p><br></p><p>Some Android apps didn't function well, especially if it was trying to access ChromeOS file system. And there was scaling problems with a handful of apps. </p><p><br></p><p>ChromeOS as a tablet and perhaps a day to day machine still feels unfinished to me. </p>

  • willr

    28 November, 2018 - 8:39 pm

    <p>Ya Windows 10 is better for tablet use than Chrome OS but it's not in a different league, Google can catch up. Who would buy a Chrome OS tablet instead of a Windows tablet though? I'll take a Surface Pro over the Pixel Slate anyday</p>

  • jimchamplin

    Premium Member
    28 November, 2018 - 11:41 pm

    <p>LOL</p><p><br></p><p>I've never owned a Windows tablet that didn't have issues with<em> the power button</em>. Yeah, the power button. At least two or three times a day, you'd have to do a full power cycle because Windows would get into this state where pressing the button to wake it would immediately put it back to sleep. You'd find it in the event log where it <em>tried</em> to wake up.</p><p><br></p><p>And this was on multiple machines from multiple manufacturers, so it's clearly a Windows problem. Surface RT, HP Stream 7, that shoddy NuVision turd, Dell Venue Pro 10. The Dell's issues have been perhaps 1/100 the annoyance of the others but they all had the same issue and I have a feeling that if I tried again?</p><p><br></p><p><em>I'd have problems even turning the damn thing on.</em></p>

  • curtisspendlove

    29 November, 2018 - 1:46 am

    <p><em style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">When people think of the Pixel line, they don’t think of rock solid reliability and QA, and most people still are more comfortable with Windows than they are Chrome OS.</em></p><p><br></p><p>Uhhhhh. </p><p><br></p><p>Sure. I expect if you randomly stopped and asked a few thousand people if they associate MS Windows with quality, reliability, and ease of use, most of them would agree. </p><p><br></p><p>Heh. Sure. </p><p><br></p><p>To be fair, though. I expect if you asked those same people their thoughts about Pixel you’d get a lot of blank looks. </p><p><br></p><p>“You know, the Google laptop…”, you might prompt. </p><p><br></p><p>”Oh yeah, they have a lot of [funny/lame/silly] commercials about that thing lately.” They might respond. </p><p><br></p><p>“Yeah I don’t own my own business, make robots, or code…whatever that is. So I don’t think I need a Microsoft Surface.” They might continue. </p>

  • Lauren Glenn

    29 November, 2018 - 1:40 pm

    <p>I always choose Windows tablets lately because it gives me admin control…. something iOS and Google don't do.</p><p><br></p><p>The only bad thing is that most of Windows requires a mouse for ease of use…. but the apps are better on Windows. Only one program on Android lets me use audio sync delay so it syncs properly with certain bluetooth headsets (BS Player). On Windows, I can use Daum PotPlayer and get that feature and a lot more.</p><p><br></p><p>You're still going to have that problem. </p><p><br></p><p>I think the only way they'd solve that is to do what one iOS app RDP solution did….. give you a big circle pointer with a mouse pointer tip on it that you can drag around screen in place of a mouse. To right-click? Just hit an adjacent area on that circle "icon" thing and it switches. It was the easiest way to interface with a PC on an iPad and I loved it. If PC had that too, I could skip taking a mouse with me. But unlike iOS, at least I can use a mouse.</p>

  • longhorn

    29 November, 2018 - 2:43 pm

    <p>If Windows annihilates Chrome OS, Windows can increase the usage share by 1 %. I don't know If that's a huge opportunity. I would prefer Chrome OS to stick around and maybe next year will be the year of Chrome OS. Or the year after that. Or some year after that. Some day Chrome OS might get native printing support or even decent OneDrive support.</p><p><br></p><p>Let's see if Google can make Chrome OS better. That will probably benefit Windows users too. Windows needs all the competition it can get, because it's so dominant on desktops and laptops. As for tablets, Chrome OS is struggling just as hard there as anywhere else.</p><p><br></p>

    • VancouverNinja

      Premium Member
      29 November, 2018 - 3:53 pm

      <blockquote><em><a href="#374932">In reply to longhorn:</a></em></blockquote><p>Chrome OS is heading into year 9. The market has rejected it and nothing will change that. From a brand and marketing perspective – even if it turned into the greatest PC OS since sliced bread the BRAND is dead. Google's only chance is the new project Fuchsia and that will simply be way too late against Windows. </p><p><br></p><p>Google needs to focus unbelievably hard on making Android way more than it is and creating deep hooks into Windows 10 – without laser like focus on this they risk losing their dominance on mobile phones down the road. Chasing a productivity PC OS is out of their reach. </p><p><br></p><p>There an old saying "You gotta know when to hold'em, know when to fold them". The Alphabet leadership team has not learnt this lesson yet…they may never learn based on their history so far.</p>

      • curtisspendlove

        29 November, 2018 - 9:01 pm

        <blockquote><em><a href="#374997">In reply to VancouverNinja:</a></em></blockquote><p><em>There an old saying "You gotta know when to hold'em, know when to fold them". The Alphabet leadership team has not learnt this lesson yet…they may never learn based on their history so far.</em></p><p><br></p><p>How long do you think Windows is viable? How long before Microsoft needs to “fold”?</p><p><br></p><p>Personally, I think they have already started the last card game. They know it, but they aren’t going to say it until they have a viable successor. </p><p><br></p><p>This successor might be something we see with “andromeda”. </p><p><br></p><p>But I hope it is a Windows flavored version of Linux. Linux is an amazing core with a mostly unsatisfactory UI/X. Windows is a pretty good UI/X (with some doable adjustments, it would be a good UI/X), with a bloated, legacy core. (They could even bake a transparent Hyper-V containerization layer in to run “legacy” Win32/64 applications in a nice, secure jail.)</p><p><br></p><p>Microsoft is probably the only company that could bring to fruition the “year of the Linux desktop”. </p>

        • VancouverNinja

          Premium Member
          30 November, 2018 - 2:33 pm

          <blockquote><em><a href="#375129">In reply to curtisspendlove:</a></em></blockquote><p>How long is windows viable? As long as human beings need proper productivity PCs. That's gonna be a long time. Windows will simply evolve, as it is doing right now. Microsoft, to the disappointment of it's competitors, is doing everything right. They are methodically deploying a planned ecosystem of industry best solutions. They have never been stronger as a company than they are today. By saying they are doing everything right, i do not mean they are perfect or that they do not have areas where they could be better or improve. Show me the perfect tech company today…there are none. Overall MS is doing a very good job of what they need to do to be successful.</p><p><br></p><p>As for Andromeda – my wish list is fully compatibility with Windows apps and fits in with the MS ecosystem. I still believe that Windows software is the still the best available today and it would be nice to see it properly extended to a mobile platform based on Windows or Windows Core.</p><p><br></p><p>2019 and 2020 they will blow it out of the water. </p><p><br></p><p>You are probably right about year of Linux however after an eternity it's market share is below 6% – nothing to justify that level of support by MS. Windows is the PC OS the world will continue to run and we will see it properly extended to a next gen mobile solution soon enough.</p>

      • hrlngrv

        Premium Member
        30 November, 2018 - 3:51 am

        <p><a href="https://www.thurrott.com/forums/microsoft/windows/thread/windows-10-is-a-better-tablet-os-than-chrome-os-huge-opportunity-for-microsoft#374997&quot; target="_blank" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><em>In reply to VancouverNinja:</em></a></p><p>I figure Pixels are priced high enough that Google isn't losing money on them even though they don't sell many. As for OEM Chromebooks/Chromeboxes, I doubt Google could lose any money on them. So the only real expense Google faces is developers for Chrome OS. I suspect that expense is no higher than US$10 million annually, so so less than rounding error in Alphabet financials. IOW, if there's any value in giving MSFT some minor irritation and MSFT fans accute indigestion, no reason to cease doing so any time soon.</p>

        • VancouverNinja

          Premium Member
          30 November, 2018 - 2:40 pm

          <blockquote><em><a href="#375232">In reply to hrlngrv:</a></em></blockquote><p>Its about the OEMs – by focusing on Chromebooks they are letting MS become an Apple at their expense. Their cost of producing Windows and Chromebooks doesn't make sense since the market is so ridiculously low for Chromebooks, somewhere between .5% and 1% – and the needle never going to move.</p><p><br></p><p>All google has done is mess with the OEMs success and it is easy to see. The thing about Google is it is all about Google. The hourglass has almost run out for OEMs and Chromebooks. OEMs should be working on much better PC devices and simply galvanize behind Windows 10. I actually feel bad for them and that is a sincere comment.</p>

  • Bats

    29 November, 2018 - 5:37 pm

    <p>For tablets there is no gloing future for Windows, unless a more overhaul to OS is done. As for Chrome OS, it's a glorified browser. Chrome OS is basically in every Windows PC in the world thru…..and Mac. Everyone who has PC wants to use Chrome. Plus who thinks Chrome OS is rejected. They are using it in schools, because it's easy to use and maintain.</p>

    • VancouverNinja

      Premium Member
      29 November, 2018 - 6:40 pm

      <blockquote><em><a href="#375059">In reply to Bats:</a></em></blockquote><p>It will be interesting to see if they are able to hold off MS's renewed push in the K-12 space. Chrome OS share had barely slipped, but slip it did, in the last market share reports. Their penetration may have hit its peak with market share erosion facing it going forward.</p>

    • PeterC

      30 November, 2018 - 4:12 am

      <blockquote><em><a href="#375059">In reply to Bats:</a></em></blockquote><p>Chrome OS in schools has traction in the US – BUT not Europe, not at all. Its windows and ios ipads in schools.</p>

      • wright_is

        Premium Member
        30 November, 2018 - 4:24 am

        <blockquote><em><a href="#375237">In reply to PeterC:</a></em></blockquote><p>Here it is still text books, pens and paper. Windows and tablets are used in IT class once a week. The government is currently trying to pass legislation that would allow them to put 5 milliard* Euros towards kitting schools out with the required infrastructure and tablets for pupils.</p><p>* Milliard = 1,000 million or US cheapskate billion.</p>

      • VancouverNinja

        Premium Member
        30 November, 2018 - 2:21 pm

        <blockquote><em><a href="#375237">In reply to PeterC:</a></em></blockquote><p>Has traction is an understatement – they control the majority right now. But there are indicators that they have stalled and may be facing erosion from renewed competitive focus and better offerings than in prior years.</p>

    • wright_is

      Premium Member
      30 November, 2018 - 4:21 am

      <blockquote><em><a href="#375059">In reply to Bats:</a></em></blockquote><p>It isn't on any of mine or my families. Too much data slurping, it almost makes Windows look like a role model.</p>

  • Winner

    29 November, 2018 - 7:59 pm

    <p>1 – I don't think of Windows 10 for rock solid reliability, either. The linux base of chrome OS is more reliable.</p><p>2 – All that Windows bloat takes more hardware than Chrome OS</p>

  • sifinances

    30 November, 2018 - 4:24 am

    <p>I think windows 10 works slower than chrome os or android.</p>

  • jules_wombat

    30 November, 2018 - 8:16 am

    <p>Using Windows 10 on Tablets is a terrible user experience. </p><p><br></p><p>Windows 8.1 RT was a much better tablet experience until all the legacy Windows oafs complained that it wasn't 'real windows', sigh.</p>

  • prettyconfusd

    30 November, 2018 - 8:57 am

    <p>Hmm, Windows 8.1 was a pretty great tablet OS (other than when you ran into the desktop), but Windows 10 is about on a level with ChromeOS as a tablet OS in my usage (which with ChromeOS admittedly isn't a huge amount). With my SP3 with W8.1 I used it as a PC, laptop, and tablet about equal amounts and it was pretty good at all of them but with my SP4 and W10? It's just a PC or laptop because as a tablet it's a mostly terrible experience (unless I'm using an app to read comics/magazines), and this is on Microsoft's own hardware.</p><p><br></p><p>Google seem to work much faster at OS development than Microsoft – Just look at Android the past three years compared to Windows 10 – I'm so impressed with the polish in the latest Android version and all the new features they've added – throw in a consistent design language too and it's striking how much they've advanced. Google also have a vested interest in grabbing the consumer market even more than they already have. Microsoft seems content to cede anything that's not business and enterprise (and education – though as an educator myself I'd say they're still a bit of a question mark for anything that isn't also used in business, such as Teams and Office365) – there's a huge graveyard of consumer plays that have all perished the past few years in favour of business-facing and desktop PC features. Even the fabled "Andromeda" seems to be a play for business customers rather than consumers.</p><p><br></p><p>The other big advantage ChromeOS has is Android apps. Sure, Android tablet optimised apps are not always as amazing as iPad optimised apps – but they're a lot better than what Windows has available to it. All Android apps are touch friendly and built for Android – a lot of third party Windows 10 apps are either old desktop apps, hastily put together native apps, or seldom-updated ports from iOS (such as FB, Messenger, and Instagram. Heck, Messenger won't even run properly since updating to 1809 and I've uninstalled and refreshed it multiple times now). There are some absolute gems in the Windows store (think MyTube! or Drawboard PDF) but compared to the Android app selection ChromeOS has, there's really no comparison. Heck, even Office365 is a better experience on Android/ChromeOS since MS hid the modern Office apps and forced the majority of Windows users to the old and bloated (and oft times confusing to casual users) desktop versions.</p><p><br></p><p>If Microsoft do give tablet mode a decent go (or just ditch the legacy cruft and have a modern shell based tablet OS) I'd be thrilled, but I don't really see it happening looking at their moves the past year or two. The opportunity is definitely there for them – but I think it's doubtful they'd take it or even see it as something useful to spend their time and money on. We're more likely to just get the desktop version of Windows 10 but just running on newer ARM hardware.</p><p><br></p><p>But fingers crossed! :)</p>

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