Microsoft is Closing Its Retail Stores for Good
- Paul Thurrott
- Jun 26, 2020
-
166
Microsoft announced today that it will permanently close all of its retail stores and reassign those employees to other locations. It will continue operating four Microsoft Experience Centers.
“As part of our business plan, we [are] closing Microsoft Store physical locations,” a horribly-worded announcement, on LinkedIn of all places, reads. “Our retail team members will continue to serve customers working from Microsoft corporate facilities or remotely and we will continue to develop our diverse team in support of the overall company mission and objectives.”
Windows Intelligence In Your Inbox
Sign up for our new free newsletter to get three time-saving tips each Friday — and get free copies of Paul Thurrott's Windows 11 and Windows 10 Field Guides (normally $9.99) as a special welcome gift!
"*" indicates required fields
Microsoft is blaming the closures on COVID-19, but let’s face it, these stores have been failing for years and have never approached even a tiny percentage of the foot traffic that Apple sees with its own retail stores.
But Microsoft also notes that its hardware and software sales have continued to shift online as its offerings have evolved to be largely digital, and its retail workforce has likewise evolved during the pandemic to serve customers remotely.
Whatever the reason, it’s over.
Going forward, Microsoft says it will “reimagine” existing facilities in London, New York City, Sydney, and Redmond to help serve its customers. But it’s not clear if they are referring to retail locations or other facilities. (UPDATE: The four locations are so-called Microsoft Experience Centers, according to the firm. These locations will not have retail sales.) And it will pump up its digital storefronts and virtual support offerings.
Conversation 166 comments
-
energy
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>This is no surprise. Again, they attempted to be like Apple (at least to some degree) and it didn't work at all.</p>
-
will
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>Wow. That just feels like a gut punch. I agree there is a stark contrast from an Apple Store to a Microsoft one, but to close them all?? This just sucks on so many levels. </p>
-
skolvikings
Log in to Reply<p>My only anecdotal experience with a Microsoft store was at the Mall of America, where it's literally located directly across from the Apple store. The few times I've been there, the Apple store definitely had significantly more foot traffic than the Microsoft store, although there were always people in the Microsoft store. Though a good percentage of them were kids playing the display Xbox consoles.</p>
-
SvenJ
Log in to Reply<blockquote><a href="#549767"><em>In reply to Skolvikings:</em></a><em> </em>The Apple store has a lot of folks waiting for service (Device, Genius Bar) and folks taking classes. I know that from personal experience having done both and talked to folks doing the same. </blockquote><p><br></p>
-
madthinus
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>This effects Surface mostly. Buying a Surface means either online or via a partner. </p>
-
SvenJ
Log in to Reply<blockquote><a href="#549768"><em>In reply to madthinus:</em></a><em> </em>They sell them at Best Buy, and there are way more of those, in the US at least. I have 3 Best Buy's in town. Have to drive 60 miles for the nearest MS store. Was actually something I did when Windows Phones were around, because there wasn't anywhere else to see the whole line-up. Carriers tended to have one barely working model on display near the back of the store. </blockquote><p><br></p>
-
Pungkuss
Log in to Reply<p>How long until they get rid of the surface line.</p>
-
yaddamaster
Log in to Reply<p>Since i live in the Seattle area all I can do is gauge what I see here. And at the few stores in this location – the traffic has always rivaled the Apple stores. At Bellevue Square Mall the Microsoft store and the Apple store are very close to each other and easy to observe. Granted – this is Microsoft land but still.</p><p><br></p><p>Regardless – unless Microsoft is planning on exiting the hardware business (possible) then this is a mistake. If I'm going to drop $1k+ on a new laptop/tablet it's very convenient to step into a store and actually try it out. Even the Surface X – until you hold it in your hand you don't realize what a beautiful piece of hardware it is – but obviously very compromised.</p><p><br></p><p>Obviously COVID has changed the strategy completely. But I tend to think this is a mistake.</p>
-
gregorylbrannon
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549770">In reply to yaddamaster:</a></em></blockquote><p>Amen brother!! If you've ever try browsing a Surface of any Windows 10 laptop at a Best Buy, Nebraska Furniture Mart or any electronic retail store. The sales people are horribly inept at educating customers on those devices but if you visit the Apple section they can thoroughly explain Macs and iPad because they either use them personally or the store has a dedicated Apple salesperson there. Consumer increasingly becoming an afterthought and second class citizen to Microsoft</p>
-
chrisltd
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549770">In reply to yaddamaster:</a></em></blockquote><p>In the US, you can always go to Best Buy to see and try Surface devices.</p>
-
behindmyscreen
Log in to Reply<p>Where would they reassign retail employees?</p>
-
jam3ohio
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<blockquote><em>They won't.<a href="#549771">In reply to behindmyscreen:</a></em></blockquote><p><br></p>
-
lvthunder
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549771">In reply to behindmyscreen:</a></em></blockquote><p>They will be reassigned to the unemployment office most like likely.</p>
-
darkgrayknight
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549771">In reply to behindmyscreen:</a></em></blockquote><p>No layoffs, so roughly they are moving them to their digital store and support.</p>
-
SRLRacing
Log in to Reply<p>I purchased all my Surface hardware at the Microsoft store. This is kinda sad for me. Being able to get service there was a huge plus. </p>
-
john_m
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549773">In reply to SRLRacing:</a></em></blockquote><p>Same here, it was very convenient buying or getting service right at the Microsoft store. Sorry to see them go.</p>
-
jeff.bane
Log in to Reply<p>It was a still a great place to look at all the available surface devices vs like Best Buy. I personally bought a surface pro and surface laptop at a physical location over the years. Shame.</p>
-
harmjr
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>In Houston area we have two maybe three of them. I loved the one in our Galleria. I bought several devices but I could always see there was more people playing with devices then buying them. Too be honest their prices were premium. Its sad that we wont have a really good place to look at PC hardware. I always felt that's what the store was there for. I would take customers there for my side gig to test out computers they wanted before buying. </p>
-
harmjr
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<blockquote><em>Yes we have microcenter and best buy but Microsoft Store is a unique setup.<a href="#549775">In reply to harmjr:</a></em></blockquote><p><br></p>
-
karlinhigh
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>Well, Microsoft must know if the stores aren't working out. If they aren't, closure is expected.</p><p><br></p><p>But in my internal thesaurus, "reimagine" has become a synonym for "destroy."</p>
-
sherlockholmes
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>The bad news never ends. </p>
-
beckoningeagle
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>Oh man!, probably the only place I enjoyed visiting the mall. Only Best Buy and Office Depot left in Puerto Rico. Not good at all.</p>
-
c_j_martinez
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549782">In reply to BeckoningEagle:</a></em></blockquote><p>I hear you! That MS Store has some great people working, many of whom have been there several years. The product selection has been noticeably dwindling as of late, but their customer service has always been stellar.</p>
-
txag
Log in to Reply<p>I have often observed two Microsoft stores — both in malls, and both near Apple stores. In both Danbury, CT and The Woodlands, TX (suburban Houston) the Apple stores were always (pre-Covid) full to bursting and the Microsoft stores were nearly empty every time I looked. If those two stores were at all representative, Microsoft had to be losing a lot of money keeping the doors open. If I remember correctly, the Danbury Microsoft store was larger than the Apple store when I lived there, which made the contrast more dramatic.</p>
-
proftheory
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549783">In reply to txag:</a></em></blockquote><p>I knew one of the employees – who also happens to be a ham. I usualy went in there to chat about the hobby scene. I once even went in there to confirm what I already suspected was the problem with an Outlook 2019 problem.</p><p>One problem with PC tech support is that everybody knows someone who can fix it for free. (A+ or not many really don't know what they are doing.) And Microsoft doesn't have as much of a cult following as Apple.</p><p><br></p><p>When MS tried ARM devices they should have called it Doors #1 and not try to sell it as Windows with a twist but rather re-imagine a computer that doesn't have the issues of Intel legacy.</p>
-
Scott Ross
Log in to Reply<blockquote><a href="#549783"><em>In reply to txag:</em></a></blockquote><blockquote>You can copy and paste that for other stores. I used to live near the one in Troy MI. (The store that Balmer opened) and the King Of Prussia Mall, both were pretty close to the Apple stores and both had little to no foot traffic. I always wanted them to do well but in the end they did not have what consumers were looking for. </blockquote><p><br></p>
-
ericgharrison
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549783">In reply to txag:</a></em></blockquote><p>I think something no one is bringing up – a lot of the crowds in Apple stores are people waiting on service or support. I don't say this as an anti-Apple person – I have a lot of their products!</p>
-
Paul Thurrott
Premium MemberLog in to ReplyThis has always been my experience as well.
That said, it’s still nice as a customer to have a local place you can go and get help/support.
-
johnh3
Log in to Reply<p>No Windows Phone, Cortana speakers, or other stuff and so on. I suppose there no point for Microsoft to be in the retail business to only sell a few PC.s</p><p>So a logical decision. </p>
-
SvenJ
Log in to Reply<blockquote><a href="#549784"><em>In reply to johnh3:</em></a><em> </em>And a lot of the PCs they sold in the stores weren't even theirs. Mall rents are astronimical. There needed to be some ROI. Goodwill and presence is hard to measure in $$$.</blockquote><p><br></p>
-
Paul Thurrott
Premium MemberLog in to ReplyBy comaarison, massive quarterly costs and losses are easy to measure.
-
drjohnnyray
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>We've visited the Microsoft Store at the Easton Shopping Center in Columbus. My wife bought an original surface book at that store for her Bachelor and Master work. It is a shame it's leaving because it was an easy way to actually see all the brands of Microsoft hardware.</p>
-
BlackForestHam
Log in to Reply<p>These stores were, from their genesis, a project of MSFT’s marketing arm. </p>
-
JH_Radio
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>I was at the Microsoft store in Orlando, there was nobody there at all. I looked at surface laptop II I think at the time. It was nice to be able to go in there and feel the hardware. Surface definitely is premium with premium pricing to match. I have several laptops and I am not in need of a computer right now, but when I am , I could see myself going Microsoft. Sad to see them go, but understandable as to why. </p>
-
dstrauss
Log in to Reply<p>They could have at least waited a full week after WWDC…</p><p><br></p><p>I realize they had almost minimal traffic compared to Apple stores in the same location, but this will look to the public as capitulation, not retrenchment.</p>
-
someguy1984
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549790">In reply to dstrauss:</a></em></blockquote><p>It looks like capitulation, because it is. These stores never had a decent reason for being, it was just "Apple has them, so we must have them to", and they were often located within sight of existing Apple stores. Microsoft never articulated what these were for, and they were just a constant money drain.</p>
-
Paul Thurrott
Premium MemberLog in to ReplyIt is fair to say that the Stores came about during an era of great Apple envy at Microsoft.
Of course, that explains Surface too.
-
sykeward
Log in to Reply<p>There’s a decently-sized Microsoft Store here in Portland that’s been around for a while, but two of the three times I’ve visited I was the only customer there. There were always a lot of staff present, though – it was a little unnerving to be silently watched by so many (admittedly polite) employees who had nothing else to do. </p>
-
gregorylbrannon
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>I hate to be a " I told you so" person but last week on Windows Central Podcast. I asked Can and Zach if they could see Microsoft closing their retail stores because of several reasons. Reason #1 We all here have said how most stores were always empty with the exception of kids playing Xbox and OF games demos. Reason #2 Most electronic retail stores have already reopened in some limited capacity but it seemed as Microsoft was in no rush to reopen stores. My guess is the cost of rent was probably not worth the low revenue the stores were bringing in. So it's probably easy to use COVID-19 impacts as a viable reason to close stores.</p><p><br></p><p>I'm sad as I frequented my Frisco, Texas store and made good friends there. It was like the show Cheers for me where want to go where every body knows your name. Lastly this feels like this just another action that makes Microsoft feel less and less like a consumer company.</p><p><br></p><p><br></p>
-
JacobTheDev
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>That's too bad, I always enjoyed stopping by the Microsoft Store near me. Everything was super polished and functional, lots of cool tech to check out, and extremely helpful and knowledgable employees in my experience. </p>
-
oscar1
Log in to Reply<p>The evidence that Microsoft are about to forgo consumer space altogether are mounting. I wonder how long Surface will survive, especially in light of Apples announced move to ARM.</p>
-
red77star
Log in to Reply<blockquote><a href="#549795"><em>In reply to oscar1:</em></a><em> </em></blockquote><p>Surface is dead in a year or 2.</p>
-
Chris_Kez
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549802">In reply to red77star:</a></em></blockquote><p>Let's put a pin in this comment and come back in two years, when Surface is still an ongoing concern.</p>
-
red77star
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549826">In reply to Chris_Kez:</a></em></blockquote><p>Many people here did the same with my comments of UWP is dead, Retail Store is dead, Mixer is Dead, Windows Phone is dead, Cortana is going to fail but let's pin this. I say Surface is no more in two years. Microsoft biggest problem is abomination called Windows 10. They completely alienated their Windows user base.</p>
-
Paul Thurrott
Premium MemberLog in to Reply… with Windows 8, not Windows 10.
Windows 10 isn’t perfect (Hello, crapware, ads, and telemetry) but it has righted virtually all the wrongs of Windows 8.
-
darkgrayknight
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549802">In reply to red77star:</a></em></blockquote><p>I doubt it. Xbox is still going strong. Microsoft keyboards and mice are still great. Surface devices are good to great. The stores were started after Surface.</p>
-
Paul Thurrott
Premium MemberLog in to ReplyXbox is still going. Strong … Not sure I’d say that.
Also, Microsoft’s first retail stores open in 2009, three years before the first Surface.
-
oscar999
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#550166">In reply to paul-thurrott:</a></em></blockquote><p>Xbox are soon to be a cloud business – as you of course know, but sure, thats one Microsoft product segment that is still <span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">entirely focused on consumers. </span>Although it<span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> represents only a small slice of Microsofts revenues and with a 4th consecutive year of loss for Xbox i bet it itches in Nadellas fingers to pull the trigger on it.</span></p>
-
red77star
Log in to Reply<p>The consequences of the true failure Windows 8.x/10 abomination mounted to. I will say this one more time…no Windows no Microsoft on the long run but one boring company with their boring Azure business no one cares about.</p><p><br></p><p>Microsoft badly needs to stop copying Apple/Google and get rid of all abomination within Windows 10 such as UWP, cross platform, WSL and other crap along with hideous UI they have. Microsoft is going to lose their Windows Customers because Windows is more like something else and less Windows.</p><p><br></p><p>COVID 19 has nothing to do with this…go check Apple retail store…COVID 19 is not stopping people from buying there.</p>
-
ontariopundit
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549796">In reply to red77star:</a></em></blockquote><p><br></p><p>"Microsoft badly needs to stop copying Apple/Google and get rid of all abomination within Windows 10 such as UWP, cross platform, WSL and other crap along with hideous UI they have. Microsoft is going to lose their Windows Customers because Windows is more like something else and less Windows."</p><p><br></p><p>UWP was Microsoft Windows desperately grasping for a life saver. When Apple side-swiped Microsoft's mobile OS with the iPhone Microsoft was caught flat footed. When Apple released the iPhone Steve Ballmer famously opined "it doesn't appeal to business customers because it doesn't have a keyboard. Which makes it not a very good email machine. … Right now, we're selling millions and millions and millions of phones a year. Apple is selling zero phones a year. In six months, they'll have the most expensive phone by far ever in the marketplace."</p><p><br></p><p>What Apple had done was taken a Mac, redesigned the interface to suit that of a 4" touch screen, stuffed it into a much smaller package and added the hardware needed to support a cellular connection.</p><p><br></p><p>Apple had looked at the problem of a smartphone from a computer maker's perspective while Microsoft and BlackBerry had both been coming at the problem of a smartphone from the perspective of a over-designed feature phone.</p><p><br></p><p>Apple got it right. Microsoft and BlackBerry got it wrong.</p><p><br></p><p>With the benefit of hindsight it was obvious that Apple would come out with a mobile phone computing device to challenge Microsoft's brief head start in mobile phones because Apple had both been experimenting with mobile computing as long as Microsoft had (check out the Knowledge Navigator from 1987 on YouTube or the (much maligned) eMate).</p><p><br></p><p>UWP was a mistake. By 2011 it was obvious that Microsoft was losing the battle for the hearts and minds of smartphone users, and especially for the developers of smartphone apps which were completely ignoring their much diminished platform. And, Microsoft had also failed to produce a tablet device to successfully compete with the iPad (sure, Microsoft had had OEMs making touch screen tablet computers as far back as Windows XP but they were simply Windows XP running with a touch screen "mouse"… lots of people had retrofitted MacBooks and PowerBooks to have the same experience… and it wasn't good)</p><p><br></p><p>Microsoft pivoted to outflank Apple, thinking that they could make one operating system to rule them all and leverage all the Windows developers to make apps for all form factors, phone, tablet and desktop.</p><p><br></p><p>Unfortunately for Microsoft, as history has shown, touch and desktop simply don't go well together. It's still a niche product. I am always amazed by how few people use their touch screen laptops as a touch screen. Jobs (I think it was him) was right to point out that it's not natural to raise your arm up for long periods to interact with a screen.</p><p><br></p><p>Windows 8 was the disaster that started the chain reaction that has lead to iOS and Android becoming the globe's dominant operating systems (by value or by number of users).</p><p><br></p><p>Windows 8 was designed first and foremost for touch. Consumers rejected that paradigm because it did not work well with mouse and keyboard, and with it they also rejected the UWP technology that was supposed to bring developers on board to make lots of touch-friendly apps to challenge Apple's new found juggernaut status with the iPhone and the iPad.</p><p><br></p><p>Lose the developers. Lose the momentum. Windows is now an invisible utility to run legacy software like Microsoft Office, Adobe and a handful of other specialty tools.</p><p><br></p><p>Even those tools are slowly being moved online which begs the question: "why Windows?"</p><p><br></p><p>What exciting developments happen on Windows? I keep looking in the Windows store (aka the place the find UWP apps) and I find nothing but junk. Even reliable standbys for me like IrfanView and VLC Player are crippled in their Windows Store version compared to their real desktop versions.</p><p><br></p><p>UWP was an innocent bystander in Microsoft's quest to challenge iOS. Xamarin, a fantastic tool, was also an innocent victim of Microsoft's effort to keep UWP relevant to keep Microsoft's hopes of challenging iOS (and Android) alive.</p><p><br></p><p>Ah well. So much digital ink spilled over technologies that are being relegated to the dustbin of history.</p>
-
RobertJasiek
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#550089">In reply to OntarioPundit:</a></em></blockquote><p>There are many millions of "old" Windows desktop softwares – not only a "handful" and not only Office. The small numbers affect the web company apps (shops, banks, travel, media webpages etc.), smartphone-/touch-orientated apps and MS store apps. Some say that there would be too few newly-created desktop softwares, but does it matter in view of the sufficiently many old ones?</p>
-
glenn8878
Log in to Reply<p>There's a reason to visit an Apple Store. I have an iPhone or iPad to repair or see their latest models. Microsoft Store keep failing to sell relevant PC hardware. Their Surface laptops and Pro models are beyond the budgets of most customers. No one cares about Xbox, which was long overdue for being marketed as an entry level PC. They removed their mobile phones. Their virtual reality and augmented reality devices disappeared after a lot of marketing and then nothing. Band discontinued prematurely. Suddenly, Apple stole their thunder with ARM Macs. </p>
-
red77star
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549797">In reply to glenn8878:</a></em></blockquote><p>No one sane buys PC unless you are in laptop business. People build their PC from parts and it is multi billion business.</p>
-
oscar1
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549801">In reply to red77star:</a></em></blockquote><p>I think you mean the opposite. Almost no one is building their PC from parts, the DIY market is a tiny slice of PC sales. What century are you living in, really? </p>
-
RobertJasiek
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549808">In reply to oscar1:</a></em></blockquote><p>If one knows how to build a PC or complete a barebone, the result is often better and less expensive than what can be bought preassebled. There can be exceptions, of which maybe a gaming PC is one: some are well built but also expensive while building some oneself is not so easy.</p><p>Nowadays, who still buys a PC when instead he can buy a mobile device? Only people who know exactly why they need a PC. Most of them might be companies. Most of those individuals needing a non-gaming PC nowadays might also know or quickly learn how to build it themselves.</p>
-
ontariopundit
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549822">In reply to RobertJasiek:</a></em></blockquote><p><br></p><p>"If one knows how to build a PC or complete a barebone, the result is often better and less expensive than what can be bought preassebled."</p><p><br></p><p>Having built a few of my own rigs I can confidently say [censored]. Balderdash!</p><p><br></p><p>A reputable manufacturer like HP or Dell supports their hardware for many years. I've found that many of the component manufacturers don't support their hardware for long with drivers, and, I've also found that building your own can result in driver hell–even in 2020–not encountered with HP or Dell (and, with HP or Dell you can often still use the component manufacturer's driver if HP or Dell no longer support the device).</p><p><br></p><p>As for the "less expensive" claim, for it to be valid you have to ignore a LOT of factors.</p><p><br></p><p>That claim is only valid if you ignore the TCO (total cost of ownership) of the device.</p><p><br></p><p>Yes, you can most likely buy the core components like RAM, CPU and mobo for less than if you were to buy the same desktop from a store, but, you completely ignore resale value or driver incompatibility. A home built rig has almost no resale value in a few years while a brand name desktop can actually be resold.</p><p><br></p><p>This is why people who think long term often buy Macs and iPhones.</p><p><br></p><p>TCO for a Mac or an iPhone is substantially lower than for a comparable Windows computer or Android phone because the resale value on Macs and iPhones is proportionately, MUCH higher than similar vintage, price and spec Windows desktop and Android phone.</p><p><br></p><p>This same differential applies to do-it-yourself rigs vs. brand name desktops.</p><p><br></p><p>IIRC a few years ago someone tried to build their own Mac mini. They ended up with a device that was twice as large and cost something like $100 more than the Mac mini. Not only did the Mac mini offer a smaller package but it was also a better value than the do-it-yourselfer could do. And, this didn't consider the fact that the Mac mini can run both Windows and Mac while the do-it-yourself rig could only run Windows, and had a hard time running Mac OS X.</p>
-
ontariopundit
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#550076">In reply to OntarioPundit:</a></em></blockquote><p>"Having built a few of my own rigs I can confidently say [censored]. Balderdash!"</p><p><br></p><p>Don't get me wrong. Everyone who's got any tinkerer inside them should build a computer from scratch at least once. It gives you a much better appreciation of what goes into a computer, and, what a good value a well built desktop like a Mac mini or an iMac is.</p><p><br></p><p>I don't know if I'll ever bother with a home-built rig again. My biggest motivation was to have a fast computer.</p><p><br></p><p>But, with the rise of the smartphone my whole approach to computing has changed. My Pixel takes care of a lot of my more "advanced" computing needs (amusingly enough) while my desktops take care of the nuts and bolts.</p><p><br></p><p>My favourite computers now are an 11 year old Dell E6400 upgraded with an SSD with a gorgeous 14" wide screen (they just don't make that display format any more… it's all this 1080p nonsense which is only good for consuming media and browsing the web) and a 10 year old iMac, also with a gorgeous screen a a great OS.</p><p><br></p><p>My killer home-built desktop has sat idle for nearly three years. Even though it still has a CPU that's more than twice as powerful as any laptop in the house I just never have any use for it. And, to break it down and sell it for parts was never worth my time or effort.</p><p><br></p><p>Just before covid-19 hit I browsed a few of the HP and Dell iMac clones in a Best Buy one boring lunch break.</p><p><br></p><p>I was floored by just how low quality those devices were, even though they didn't cost a whole lot less than a MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better iMac (MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better screen, more powerful CPU, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better build quality… touching an iMac doesn't leave you with the impression a strong breeze will knock it over).</p>
-
RobertJasiek
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#550076">In reply to OntarioPundit:</a></em></blockquote><p>If I bought a complete PC, my expense per year would be ca. €70. If I build my own PC, it is €40. The key is simplicity so that hardware or driver problems won't occur. For these rates, I do not need any resale value.</p>
-
Paul Thurrott
Premium MemberLog in to ReplyIf you say so. That’s not been my experience at all.
-
Chris_Kez
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549801">In reply to red77star:</a></em></blockquote><p>Source?</p>
-
glenn8878
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549801">In reply to red77star:</a></em></blockquote><p>Since when? The DIY market died a long time ago. Most people buy off the shelf or customized desktop PCs from major vendors. Vendors can get parts cheaper than regular consumers. They also install software, which is a major hassle and a big learning curve. People like their warranties and don’t want to deal with taking apart their computers. </p>
-
red77star
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549829">In reply to glenn8878:</a></em></blockquote><p>You got that wrong. People buy parts and put computers together which is one of the reasons why AMD grabbed a major market share on desktop…probably not from selling their CPUs to vendor. Get a clue.</p>
-
glenn8878
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549833">In reply to red77star:</a></em></blockquote><p>AMD Desktop marketshare is 17,7% in 2019. Up from 13.4% in 2018. Major? Much better, but still lagging.</p>
-
navarac
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549833">In reply to red77star:</a></em></blockquote><p>Got to agree that self-build is still the way to go.</p>
-
Paul Thurrott
Premium MemberLog in to ReplyNobody does this anymore. Not literally, but almost. DIY is a tiny slice of the PC market.
-
ebraiter
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549797">In reply to glenn8878:</a></em></blockquote><p>There is a difference. You can go just about anywhere to get a Windows computer serviced. But anyone but an Apple employee touches an iGadget and you can kiss any warranty goodbye.</p><p>You believe Apple hardware is cheaper than Microsoft's. Xbox is a gaming platform. Not a PC.</p><p>"Apple stole their thunder with ARM Macs". Nope. There is an ARM version of Windows 10 v2004 available since the v2004 release. When will ARM computers from Apple be released in store?</p>
-
glenn8878
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549972">In reply to ebraiter:</a></em></blockquote><p>Except for Apple authorized repair as an alternative that Apple tells you to go. You can still choose Apple, which is preferred since their service is unmatched.</p><p><br></p><p>"You believe Apple hardware is cheaper than Microsoft's."</p><p><br></p><p>It depends. I don't advise buying a Mac, but I definitely think iPhones and iPads are cheaper categorically especially with all the sales being offered. Surface is not affordable compared with third party vendors like HP, DELL, ACER, and ASUS. Microsoft explicitly decided to make Surface an aspirational product. I felt it had the right idea, but it didn't age well.</p><p><br></p><p>"Xbox is a gaming platform. Not a PC."</p><p><br></p><p>Obviously, but it shouldn't merely be.</p>
-
dcdevito
Log in to Reply<p>Just another Ballmer era tidbit being erased. </p>
-
navarac
Log in to Reply<p>With the store in up-market Oxford Street in London (UK), it won't be missed. Not exactly where the majority of Brits do their shopping. Pre-Covid it was full of foreigners anyway.</p>
-
hassan_timite
Log in to Reply<p>Thanks Mr nadella for firing even more people [/Sarcasm]</p><p><br></p><p>Seriously does Satya really think that destroying anything other than cloud related solutions is a great strategy to keep ustomers trust in Microsoft ?</p><p>Personnaly if i move to another platform than Windows, something i consider more and more this day, i will stop using anything related to Microsoft besides perhaps Xbox.</p><p>But then when XBox will be completely replaced by XCloud i will move to something else for gaming, perhaps Playstation.</p>
-
red77star
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549805">In reply to Hassan_Timite:</a></em></blockquote><p>Irony is, their Azure is pile of crap in my opinion.</p>
-
Paul Thurrott
Premium MemberLog in to ReplyIt’s not ironic if it’s just your opinion. It’s just your opinion. (Literally, I’ve never heard anyone, not even from Amazon, describe Azure that way.)
-
red77star
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#550169">In reply to paul-thurrott:</a></em></blockquote><p>Azure is such money grabbing schema, it sickens me. For small and medium size businesses there is nothing interesting. The cost of having on premise infrastructure is way better than opting for Azure.</p>
-
Paul Thurrott
Premium MemberLog in to Replylol what.
“money grabbing schem[e]” = a business.
Right. It’s a business. What was Windows, a charity?
-
hassan_timite
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549805">In reply to Hassan_Timite:</a></em></blockquote><p>Irony is, their Azure is pile of crap in my opinion.</p><p><br></p><p>Well, in my experience is quite good. However without Windows i don't see why i would use Azure or any other Microsoft cloud solutions.</p>
-
innitrichie
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549805">In reply to Hassan_Timite:</a></em></blockquote><p><br></p><p>Microsoft 365 is a phenomenal industry-leading set of solutions. Nothing else matters. It's bigger than Windows even as far as I'm concerned.</p>
-
Paul Thurrott
Premium MemberLog in to ReplyIt’s literally a superset of Windows, so sure. 🙂
But yes, what’s bigger than Windows is the Office 365 component of Microsoft 365. It’s bigger and it’s more important. And it’s also cross-platform.
-
hassan_timite
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549805">In reply to Hassan_Timite:</a></em></blockquote><p><br></p><p><em>Microsoft 365 is a phenomenal industry-leading set of solutions. Nothing else matters. It's bigger than Windows even as far as I'm concerned.</em></p><p><br></p><p>We shall see if people will keep using Microsoft 365 if Microsoft continues its current path of Windows destruction .</p><p>You see Google also does have good cloud solutions but they did understand why they need Android devices despites being mainly cloud oriented. You need your own medium as the main/favorite way to consume your own services.</p><p>Relying on third party O.S as the main medium for one's own services consumption is dumb to say the least.</p><p>The XCloud situation on iOS is a good indication of what Microsoft risk if it keeps its current path.</p><p>If Windows die, nothing will prevent Google to make of Android a no man's land for Microsoft services. Especially as Microsoft should to rely on Chromium…</p>
-
Paul Thurrott
Premium MemberLog in to ReplyAt which time PlayStation will also be only in the cloud. 🙂
-
hassan_timite
Log in to Reply<p>At which time PlayStation will also be only in the cloud. :)</p><p><br></p><p>Well then it will be either Nintendo or i will stop gaming :)</p>
-
Paul Thurrott
Premium MemberLog in to ReplyWhy? What is it about the cloud that ruins gaming?
-
hassan_timite
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#550194">In reply to paul-thurrott:</a></em></blockquote><p>In my country the internet is very slow and even though i do have both Fiber and 4G modem at home, most of the time streaming sucks. And i don't expect any significant improvement to use cloud gaming to the extent that it could replace local gaming in a foreseeable future.</p><p>Perhaps that 5G will fix it but assuming that 4G is not even common despites what is advertized…</p>
-
ponsaelius
Log in to Reply<p>I am in the UK and back in 2013 the first rumours of a Microsoft retail presence were on the blogs. Not here but elsewhere. I have two Apple Stores within five miles and they are always packed, they run free courses and are focussed on a high quality premium buying experience. I was looking forward to UK stores and buying my WindowsPhone from there. </p><p><br></p><p>In 2015 I was in San Francisco on holiday and stopped by their store. It was fine. It seemed somewhat less buzzing than an Apple Store but there was a real difference in mobile. Their WindowsPhone devices were out of view at the back of the store and were the cheaper mid to low range models. I could see why it wasn't selling in the USA if they couldn't even be bothered to do something special in their own store. I did buy an HP Stream 7 on offer. </p><p><br></p><p>The world has changed since then. Microsoft is not a consumer company and has even less to offer at retail in a mobile first world. </p><p><br></p><p>I was considering a special rail trip to London before Covid struck to check out the store and maybe buy some Surface headphones. If it's just an "experience" and I can't buy anything then it looks like the trip is off.</p>
-
rmlounsbury
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>The Microsoft stores while a neat idea never seemed to translate and really given it is the default for most machines shipped in the world do you really need to showcase it? In contrast the Apple stores and their cult-ish atmosphere wasn't just a place to check out their gear but it was pretty much the only place you can go for support and repair of Apple devices so they have some useful function. Apple also does an excellent job with their workshops in store as well. </p><p><br></p><p>I've never see the Microsoft stores I've come across with more than a hand full of people. I'm sure they where useful for some but seemed to largely not have much of a purpose. </p>
-
bluvg
Log in to Reply<p>For Surface business customers, the Mall of America store has been absolutely fantastic. I'm surprised the business side of the stores got little attention, because they made it super easy to work with them, especially if you needed to swap hardware. I'll also miss the opportunity to walk in and try equipment that Best Buy will <em>never carry.</em></p><p><br></p><p>From a consumer standpoint, they didn't really seem to run it like a business unto itself. They didn't have compelling sales incentives, and I don't think they played up their service advantage at all. Apple Stores offer a limited set of options from one manufacturer. The options in PC market are enormous in comparison, and not really suited to retail unless you need a computer <em>right now</em>.</p>
-
matthewitt
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>I felt like this was a possibility once they closed down from COVID. Time to use it as an excuse for every bad business decision and prune the bush.</p>
-
navarac
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549820">In reply to MattHewitt:</a></em></blockquote><p>Strikes me a LOT of companies are doing this.</p>
-
mattbg
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549820">In reply to MattHewitt:</a></em></blockquote><p>Agree – it's expediting all kinds of things that would have happened anyway in 5-10 years, including divorces and house sales :)</p>
-
Paul Thurrott
Premium MemberLog in to ReplyThis was going to happen regardless. I was told that COVID simply moved the schedule up from next year to this summer, and that a leak of the news forced Microsoft to announce it quickly.
-
RobertJasiek
Log in to Reply<p>My plan of visiting an MS store and telling them precisely why I don't buy a Surface Go 2 and what I want a Surface Go 3 to be dissolves:)</p>
-
SvenJ
Log in to Reply<blockquote><a href="#549824"><em>In reply to RobertJasiek:</em></a><em> </em>Would only be a cathartic experience for you. You can go to a Best Buy, hit up one of the associates in the MS area and unload. It will have the same effect.</blockquote><p><br></p>
-
garythornberry
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>I am a Microsoft Assure customer. I used my store at least monthly. It was my in-person tech support for my laptops and Microsoft software, and well worth the price. Although I have a good general PC background, I'm not a techie.</p><p><br></p><p>Assure online support is from India. The service can be excellent or poor. It all depends upon the issue, and how well you can understand the English accent of the support person. My last Word 365 inquiry was terrible.</p><p><br></p><p>During Covid-19, I really missed the store. Recently, I tried to contact the store's Technical Support Manager and she never responded. I now know why.</p><p><br></p><p>Rest in Peace. Another Microsoft consumer product/service dies. Is the Surface product line next?</p><p><br></p><p>Question? Any recommendations for how I can replace my Microsoft Assure hardware and software support? I really like the in-person assistance.</p><p><br></p><p><br></p>
-
ontariopundit
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549853">In reply to garythornberry:</a></em></blockquote><p><br></p><p>"Question? Any recommendations for how I can replace my Microsoft Assure hardware and software support? I really like the in-person assistance."</p><p><br></p><p>Buy a MacBook Pro or an iPad. The MBP can run Windows if you wish (if you buy one now), and at least the iPad has a rich ecosystem of touch optimized apps :).</p>
-
olditpro2000
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>Can't say I'm surprised. The times I've checked out a Microsoft Store there was hardly anybody in there. Microsoft is not a lifestyle brand or a brand that people aspire to, so there was little reason for consumers to frequent these stores. I would bet that many Windows users don't even know that Microsoft sells their own computers.</p><p><br></p><p>It was the best place to get hands-on with Surface hardware though; it's a shame the stores won't be around for the Neo/Duo launches. Hopefully Surface isn't next on the chopping block.</p>
-
jdjan
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>I'm genuinely saddened by this. Not that I went there often but I really did like the experience – the staff seemed friendly (even though they seemed like Apple store rejects) and it reignited my enthusiasm for the brand. I also got GREAT tech support there for Surface products – even ones that I had bought used (and not retail) and would never buy a Surface device from anywhere else.</p>
-
innitrichie
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549860">In reply to jdjan:</a></em></blockquote><p><br></p><p>I couldn't agree more. The Microsoft magicians have often saved me with solutions to seemingly unsolvable problems.</p>
-
innitrichie
Log in to Reply<p>This is terrible news for the billions of people who visit Microsoft stores each year to access tech magicians, sales guidance, and in-depth product experience demonstrations. We need to keep putting key Microsoft technologies in the hands of as many people as possible to ensure sophisticated users needs are met. With Surface Phone Duo on the horizon, this a terrible time to give up on the Microsoft retail experience.</p>
-
jgraebner
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549864">In reply to innitrichie:</a></em></blockquote><p>I honestly can't figure out if that comment was sarcastic or not…</p>
-
ontariopundit
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549879">In reply to jgraebner:</a></em></blockquote><p><br></p><p>My vote is for sarcasm.</p>
-
youwerewarned
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549879">In reply to jgraebner:</a></em></blockquote><p>I think he meant trillions…</p>
-
naddy69
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549864">In reply to innitrichie:</a></em></blockquote><p><span style="background-color: rgb(245, 245, 245);">LOL, good one. Do you write your own material? Or do you hire comedy writers?</span></p>
-
Paul Thurrott
Premium MemberLog in to ReplyIs there a way to express this opinion without being a jerk to the other person?
-
pecosbob04
Log in to Reply<blockquote><a href="#550143"><em>In reply to paul-thurrott:</em></a><em> I sure wish YOUR replies denoted who you are replying to or referencing. I would love to know who the jerk is in this subthread so I could be properly incensed at them but I need guidance here since I honestly think the replies are pretty tame . . . unless the perps comment was deleted because it violated all aspects of civil discourse. But then your comment would be superfluous. It must be a STAFF thing because peons comments seem to thread if not rationally at least after a discernible pattern. Is it just me or does going back into the text to edit something cause odd cursor placement after completing the edit?</em></blockquote><p><br></p>
-
Paul Thurrott
Premium MemberLog in to ReplyYeah, me too. The custom comments system we have here, while well-intended, is horribly broken. And I’ve been pushing for it to be replaced for a long time. This may finally happen this year. This is a huge frustration.
-
Paul Thurrott
Premium MemberLog in to ReplyBillions. Hm.
I’m not sure I’ve ever heard what the real-world visitor numbers are/were for the Microsoft Store, but I doubt this is something that will impact billions.
Also, Google doesn’t have retail stores and Android is doing great. Maybe this kind of thing isn’t necessary when you’re not focused almost solely only hardware. Apple’s business is quite different from Microsoft’s.
-
curtisspendlove
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#550167">In reply to paul-thurrott:</a></em></blockquote><p>Google kinda does have retail stores. They are called “carriers”. ;)</p><p><br></p><p>I still get the huge Android sales pitch any time I walk into a T-Mobile store. </p>
-
F4IL
Log in to Reply<p>Too bad for the people who worked there especially in times like these.</p>
-
innitrichie
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549870">In reply to F4IL:</a></em></blockquote><p><br></p><p>Definitely, I hope Microsoft can re-deploy these people within the company because they have a lot of valuable expertise and knowledge.</p>
-
Steve Russell
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549870">In reply to F4IL:</a></em></blockquote><p>In the article on The Verge they say, "The company tells The Verge that no layoffs will result from today’s decision. 'Our commitment to growing and developing careers from this diverse talent pool is stronger than ever,' Microsoft Store VP David Porter said in a LinkedIn post on the move."</p>
-
Paul Thurrott
Premium MemberLog in to ReplyNo one is getting laid off.
-
harrymyhre
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>First they dropped signature edition. </p><p>Now they close the stores. </p><p>i know people who are flummoxed by windows. There is no way they can untangle the Hairball of Windows. Where do they go? The geek squad from Best Buy?</p><p>if they stop making surface pc then what?</p><p><br></p>
-
SvenJ
Log in to Reply<blockquote><a href="#549874"><em>In reply to Harrymyhre:</em></a><em> </em>Really? There are people flummoxed by their cable TX remote too. If MS stops making Surface PCs, then you buy one from Dell, Lenovo, Asus, HP, Acer…..just like we did before. </blockquote><p><br></p>
-
strikeone
Log in to Reply<p>My personal experience at the San Diego store was very positive. For example, I took a damaged Huawei laptop (in extended warranty) in, got full credit on it in 5 minutes, selected a new Surface laptop, selected a nice carrying sleeve from about 5 styles available, and was out the door in 25 minutes. By the way, the store's foot traffic was enough to keep the sales/tech people busy. At a Aliso Viejo store, the sales lady immediately solved a pen problem; no waiting as you do at a Genius Bar.</p><p>In contrast, my last appointment at an Apple store: arrived on time, waited for 30 minutes, then a competent technician fixed my iPad problem but he had to service several other people's problems in time-share fashion. Not enjoyable.</p><p>I'll miss the resource.</p><p><br></p>
-
ontariopundit
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549876">In reply to strikeone:</a></em></blockquote><p><br></p><p>"no waiting as you do at a Genius Bar.</p><p><br></p><p>In contrast, my last appointment at an Apple store: arrived on time, waited for 30 minutes, then a competent technician fixed my iPad problem but he had to service several other people's problems in time-share fashion. Not enjoyable."</p><p><br></p><p>You very nicely describe the difference between the two operations. A store that can provide you service with "no waiting" means that it better be moving a whole lot of merchandise. Given that they weren't profitable it probably means that the locations weren't serving Microsoft's bottom line.</p><p><br></p><p>Apple's stores are a mix between educational, informational and sales. I couldn't even describe what Microsoft's are like because I've only wandered through the one near me a handful of times–and each it was so empty you could hear a pin drop. The devices they had on display looked nice but also were very expensive–far more expensive than I would EVER pay for a Windows/non-Mac device.</p><p><br></p><p>I guess that's the difference in customers they service.</p><p><br></p><p>Apple services customers who are prepared to spend good money on a device. Microsoft's Windows ecosystem, OTOH, primarily services the budget crowd who look at things like raw processor power (me) or lowest price.</p><p><br></p><p>The super expensive devices that were always on display in the Microsoft store never appealed to me. If I was going to spend that much money I would simply get a Mac or an iPad. Those types of devices retain their value for a lot longer and you know the value proposition that you're getting. With a comparably priced Windows price you have no idea what the value proposition is. You can easily buy a computer that is a third of the purchase price–with some compromises–but those aren't the types of computer you'd buy in a Microsoft store.</p><p><br></p><p>I personally have a Dell i5378 13.3" laptop. On paper it's very similar to my partner's MacBook Pro 13.3" laptop from the same year (2017?). I paid just over a 1/3 for my laptop than we did for the MBP and I bought my Dell from the Microsoft store when it was on deep sale. That laptop never appeared in their bricks-and-mortar stores at the sales price.</p><p><br></p><p>Ultimately, I can see why you'd pay the extra for a MBP. The quality difference is stunning. As is the battery life and the processor power (on paper my Dell is just as powerful but in practice it's a very different storey). </p>
-
jgraebner
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>This isn't a big surprise and probably makes sense strategically, but it is a bit disappointing as I always had really good experiences at my local Microsoft Store (at the Topanga Mall in Woodland Hills, CA). I bought three different Surface devices there as well as a few accessories and also went in there a couple times for service. Each time the employees were extremely knowledgeable and helpful and the overall experience was pleasant.</p><p><br></p><p>The store was never quite as busy as the Apple Store across the way, but I don't ever remember seeing it completely deserted on any of my visits.</p>
-
jwpear
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>RIP Microsoft Store. I really appreciated the great customer service I received when I visited. I believe this is one area where Microsoft excels above others, including Apple. </p><p><br></p><p>It was clear, however, that the store just didn't draw the people that Apple draws to its stores. Even as a lay person, the store felt like more of a liability to the brand than something that would prop it up.</p><p><br></p><p>I hope they do improve the online offerings. I've visited recently and it has become a confusing mix of store and microsoft.com. It feels harder to find things.</p>
-
navarac
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549862">In reply to Waethorn:</a></em></blockquote><p>Re-your BTW. It also happened to me a while back as well. Response to helpdesk was NIL, although a slightly impolitic reply to a post got attention. I do believe the site has been having issues recently though (in their defence).</p>
-
thagoochiestmane
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>Didn't they spend a bunch of money renovating their NYC store a year or so ago? Between this and Mixer that's a fair amount of money down the drain.</p><p><br></p><p>This makes me fear for the future of the Surface line; and sadly without Surface I'll probably switch to Apple for everything but a custom tower.</p>
-
Paul Thurrott
Premium MemberLog in to ReplyThe NYC store will continue as a non-retail experience center.
-
robert_wood
Log in to Reply<p>I am sorry to see this happen, especially for the people who worked at the Austin store who always gave me terrific customer service. They were always nice and professional and bent over backwards to keep customers happy. I have no complaints about that store and I think it's unfortunate. </p>
-
johncon50
Log in to Reply<p>'Tis shame. The stores I visited never had "Apple' traffic but were always fairly busy and the service they provided, not just to interested customers or service, but coding camps for girls, xbox gaming nights for youth, was always good. They were involved in the community, for free in many cases. I was looking forward to visiting the 'local' store when this Covid thing blew over</p><p>It hurts me when I see a 'Microsoft' representative in their section at BestBuy. Seeing the deer in the headlights expression of the potential customer and the barely engaging salesperson. Sometimes I'll share a few words with the customers, just to let them know the products are good, people do buy these products. I just hope they don't pull the Microsoft section out of BestBuy as well. That's the last opportunity people have to 'kick the tires', else the consumer business is just left with xbox.</p>
-
Elan Gabriel
Log in to Reply<p>Given they're got rid of almost all of their consumer projects, there was little reason to keep these open. I have two where I live (Vancouver), but every time I went inside I just stood there trying to think of a reason for me to stay. Other than kids playing Xbox after school, there was never a real reason to go there. Having said that, they were always super nice and that one time I had to replace my Xbox console was quick and efficient with no questions asked. </p>
-
jcalamita
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>It's a shame… this was the first holiday season I went to the mall and actually saw more people in the Microsoft store than the Apple store (which are very close to each other in King of Prussia Mall). Paul, any idea how they are going to take care of people that have Retail Only gift cards. Have a couple of those from the holiday deals they have every year and now I have no way to use them, since they say not for online use…</p>
-
yb
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>I live very close to the Oxford Circus Microsoft retail shop; I often had the opportunity to see how well it was doing:</p><p>even on the first day of the shop – 11th July 2019- it was clear that the upper floors were devoted to serving the very large business cluster in the area, and only the first two floors offered the traditional retail facilities.</p><p>once the excitement was over, and apart from Saturdays, the shop did not attract many retail customers- despite being right outside the Oxford Circus station. Since the third week of March, the store has been closed.</p><p>At the same time, virtually all the local businesses [save for some stores] closed, and remain so.</p><p><br></p><p>It will be interesting to see what Microsoft would do with the premises- the rent is ridiculously high, and they have been there for less than a year. Sure, they can use the frontage and the ground floor as a showroom, it will cost them a lot of money.</p><p><br></p><p>The Apple store [200 yards away, down in Regent Street] is now open again, queues can be observed during most of the day- it is as popular as ever [mobiles mainly!].</p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><br></p>
-
James Hancock
Log in to Reply<p>Microsoft is done in end-user land. They're toast.</p><p><br></p><p>The only way that they can become relevant again is to create the best damn cross platform development tool that works on Web, iOS, Android, Windows and macOS. That ain't Xamarin Forms (or MAUI that is 18 months away). It's had more than half a decade and is still trash.</p><p><br></p><p>And the .NET team is hostile to the tool set that would get them there if they adopted it like Steve Sanderson demonstrated working code for with Blazor. Yes, Flutter.</p><p><br></p><p>Meanwhle Panos Panay has been given the impossible task of making Windows relevant and getting out innovative products that people want to use… which he can't do without apps, which Microsoft doesn't have because everyone has to own a mac to do end user dev on iOS and no one cares about windows because they can just use a web browser. So Windows is now Browser + Office. That's its sole reason for existence. The second Word and Outlook are good enough in the web browser that goes away too and then Windows is done. Panos is the last-ditch effort for Microsoft. And he's being hamstrung by a .NET team that has flushed Xamarin's potential away for years and now doesn't want to admit they have a problem while servicing an ever shrinking set of clients with old desktop technology no one in their right mind would start a new project on.</p><p><br></p><p>Microsoft needs to do with Flutter what they did with Linux (WSL) and Chromium (Edge) before and co-opt other people's stuff, make them do the hard work, and then focus on the tooling to make it the very best tool that gets you in this case and Edge, the rendering engine. That's the hard part of cross platform and Google has nailed it with Flutter. So use flutter and hook on C#, Xamarin remote simulators (from the cloud for free for devs so they don't need to own a mac ever), remote debugging on ios without a mac, and Azure Devops publish to stores without a mac support. Make it all seamless and Microsoft would win and Panos would have a chance to save windows.</p><p><br></p><p>But until someone rams this down the .net team's throat, that isn't going to happen and we're going to get MAUI which is too little too late. Microsoft will have exited the end user market for OS and hardware in 18 months.</p><p><br></p><p>Meanwhile, despite multiple people commenting and making proposals they are shutting down everyone. I was shocked by the hositlity to a friend of mine's proposal to do the above by Microsoft people. And it's surreal given the success of WSL and Chromium Edge that this isn't being talked about at the highest levels of Microsoft and being an open secret.</p><p><br></p><p>But then they just keep falling back, closing stores being the latest in a long line of giving in and pulling back, ceding ground. Soon there will be no ground to continue to ceed. </p><p><br></p><p>Paul, if you've got pull, and can talk to Panos, try and make him see the light. Because Microsoft out of End-user is bad for everyone (especially .NET devs). Microsoft with a viable 3rd platform is good for everyone, especially if devs don't have to write 4 apps instead of 3 and can write one 1 app that does all 4. I was hopeful that he was going to take the bull by the horns so to speak and ram an intelligent solution to cross platform dev that would suck everyone in because of the massive ROI of a single tool for all platforms that was pixel perfect. It's the only thing that makes sense. But it seems he doesn't get that Baulmer was right "Developers! Developers! Developers!"</p>
-
ontariopundit
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549955">In reply to JohnGalt1717:</a></em></blockquote><p><br></p><p>"<em>Microsoft is done in end-user land. They're toast.</em></p><p><br></p><p><em>The only way that they can become relevant again is to create the best damn cross platform development tool that works on Web, iOS, Android, Windows and macOS</em>"</p><p><br></p><p>Your first sentence sums things up nicely when it comes to the dominance of Windows in the world of computing. Your second sentence is merely a historical statement of what Microsoft already did when they bought Xamarin.</p><p><br></p><p>There's no reason to think that a magical cross-platform tool will save Windows and we need look no further than Apple's Mac and Google's Android.</p><p><br></p><p>Microsoft already had Xamarin. Xamarin was destined to fail. It was targeted at niche or new developers who wanted to be everywhere on the cheap, not at the "big boys" or at mature developers who specialize in only one platform.</p><p><br></p><p>Large developers don't mess around with one application code base to rule them all. They have teams of devs dedicated to each platform that they develop for. Sure, there is a common code base but the interface is often custom built for each platform.</p><p><br></p><p>Heck, Microsoft keeps two completely separate teams for Microsoft Office for Mac and for Windows and has done so for decades. When Microsoft tried to save money on the Mac BU they saw quality drop precipitously and it opened up breathing room for competitors on the Mac to take marketshare away from the extremely lucrative Mac market.</p><p><br></p><p>You want your app to fit perfectly in with the iPhone's manner of working, and the same for Android. Macs and Windows are completely different from a touch interface for a small screen so they need a COMPLETELY different approach.</p><p><br></p><p>Xamarin was designed to make that simpler, but, why go for something that's not native on iOS or Android simply so you can _also_ have a Windows app in the same code base. That just doesn't make sense.</p><p><br></p><p>What matters is whether the platform offers the types of CUSTOMERS that developers want, and whether the platform allow developers to be creative in their solutions.</p><p><br></p><p>Apple's business model and computer engineering has shown decisively time and time again that a cross-platform solution and a larger market is NOT AT ALL necessary to ensure success.</p><p><br></p><p>For that matter, you don't even need a whole lot of developers. One of the 20th century's most influential developers was Bill Atkinson. He had his hand in two of the applications that shaped so much of modern computing–MacPaint, which together with MacDraw presaged Adobe's flagship Photoshop, and HyperCard which was a great hyperlinked predecessor to the http://www.</p><p><br></p><p>Since 1984 Apple has had the Mac. It's always had only a very small market share–depending on how and when market share was measured, Apple's Mac has always been 1/20th to 1/6th as common as the competing Apple DOS, Microsoft DOS or Windows ecosystems.</p><p><br></p><p>Yet, despite that Apple's Mac has always had a robust ecosystem of software–in the 1980's and through to the late 90's far superior to anything the competition offered–and was the platform on which the vast majority of today's mainstay desktop apps and paradigms were developed and perfected.</p><p><br></p><p>When Apple first released the Mac in 1984 developers managed to, within the first few years, create a remarkable number of the applications we still use in 2020 or develop the paradigms of working that are so familiar today.</p><p><br></p><p>Word and Excel come to mind as still extant packages, MacWrite heavily influenced later versions of Word, Apple's own MacPaint and MacDraw laid the foundation for much of Adobe's software, HyperCard was perhaps one of the best predecessors of HTML* and, if it still worked, would STILL by 2020 standards be a shockingly powerful tool to allow non-programmers to create remarkably powerful programs.</p><p><br></p><p>*I've never understood the mythology surrounding Berners-Lee and the founding the world wide web. When I look back on my first use of the www in late '93 I always have to shrug. I'd been using HyperCard for many years by that point and the www was simply a much less stable, slower version of HyperCard.</p><p><br></p><p>Despite having a much smaller market Apple's Mac always succeeded in attracting the best of the best when it came to developer talent. Many of the 21st century mainstays all started on the Mac and eliminated the competition that existed on DOS/Windows when they did finally arrive on Windows (most of Microsoft Office started on Mac, almost all of Adobe's software)</p>
-
James Hancock
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549990">In reply to OntarioPundit:</a></em></blockquote><p>Large developers make up 5% of all software development. The average software team is 3-5 people including QA. (i.e. 2-3 developers)</p><p><br></p><p>And they're being asked to provide iOS, Android and Web.</p><p><br></p><p>Flutter makes that a single codebase with virtually no custom code except in edge cases. And soon that will include windows.</p><p><br></p><p>And even large companies won't spend 4-5x the money when they can do it once. This is already happening with Paypal and others slowly transitioning to flutter because the cost savings is enormous. Once Web goes public release, that trickle becomes a flood.</p><p><br></p><p>If you add in all of the dev tools around (the failed) Xamarin onto Flutter and make it even easier and don't require them to own macs, you get developers back simply through cost savings alone. What to use Dart? Go ahead. Want to use C#? For sure! </p><p><br></p><p>That's how you win developers back. By showing a clear ROI as to why they should use a tool that happens to target windows for free. No amount of paying for it, nor amazing hardware from Panos Panay solves their problem.</p><p><br></p><p>Don't need a lot of developers? Joe Belfiore tried that with Windows Phone. They paid developers to write windows phone apps. It failed awfully because the apps were done for money, not as a primary focus. Using Flutter with Windows having the very best rendering engine for Flutter apps and every app looks similar, ensures that Windows isn't an afterthought. And if you make the development tools best on Windows, then it becomes the primary target and people just test on Android and iOS which makes them optimized for Windows and Windows becomes the premium experience.</p>
-
ontariopundit
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#550098">In reply to JohnGalt1717:</a></em></blockquote><p><br></p><p>You have good insights John Galt. Amusingly it was another one of your posts from a month or two ago that got me to search through the comments and found this thread with you :).</p><p><br></p><p>"<em>And if you make the development tools best on Windows, then it becomes the primary target and people just test on Android and iOS which makes them optimized for Windows and Windows becomes the premium experience.</em>"</p><p><br></p><p>I think the market has deprecated Windows, permanently. The greatest developer tools in the world won't bring the developers back. Windows on the desktop is a paradigm of computing that has been refined and perfected over the years.</p><p><br></p><p>Windows 10 is now a really good experience ™. But, despite the dramatic rise in the quality of the experience Windows 10 is almost entirely irrelevant. You, in another comment, posted the insight that Windows is little more than Microsoft Office and a web browser (ehem, <strong>Google </strong>Chrome).</p><p><br></p><p>In some ways, Microsoft should throw in the towel with Windows, spin it and Office off as a separate company, Apple should do the same with Mac and then Mac and Windows can merge into one company. This would reduce R&D costs for developers. A monopoly on the desktop is not nearly as damaging in 2020 as it was in the late 90's when Microsoft was only a minor political storm away from being broken up. Apple's iOS and Google Android ecosystem are both fully mature, and <strong>dominant</strong> computing platforms that can nicely go head-to-head with Windows.</p><p><br></p><p>Of course, both Apple and Microsoft (more so than Apple) drive business to their cloud computing profit generators from their desktop operating systems so it'll be a few years before we see that kind of consolidation on the desktop.</p><p><br></p><p>But, if you think about it, the differences between Mac and Windows are becoming less substantial as the years pass. Software is increasingly cross-platform and web-based, and Windows 10 has adopted many of the Mac and iPad paradigms. In terms of overall experience (stability, ease of use) there aren't (m)any huge differences left.</p><p><br></p><p>The difference between Mac and Windows now boils down to a somewhat (but not radically) different approach to the interface. This could be solved with different window managers (like GNOME vs KDE) overlaid onto the same underlying Unix/Linux operating system.</p><p><br></p><p>Windows 10 is in maintenance mode. The desktop computing paradigm is rapidly becoming a 'utility'. Look at cars.</p><p><br></p><p>There hasn't been a profound change in how a car operates in over a hundred years. Anyone who has their license now and has enough strength could, with only a little training, operate a car built in 1920!</p><p><br></p><p>I think the desktop has now hit that kind of stability (for that matter, the desktop hit that kind of stability 36 years ago already in 1984… it's not like the Mac from 1984 and the applications it ran is profoundly different from the Mac of today or Windows 10 of today).</p>
-
jdawgnoonan
Log in to Reply<p>I experienced great customer service at the Microsoft Store in Naperville, IL and also at their kiosk store in West Des Moines, IA. I liked their stores. </p>
-
PanamaVet
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549956">In reply to jdawgnoonan:</a></em></blockquote><p>I know how you feel. Welcome to the crowd.</p><p><br></p><p>I have been enjoying my Zune HD pretty much every day for the past 10 years. I keep a screwdriver and a spare battery handy. Microsoft crippled the functionality when they abandoned it even turning off the server used to reset the device. </p><p><br></p><p>Now they are turning off the stores.</p><p><br></p><p>Paul is right about Microsoft's inept approach to new product development. I go to stores for what they already have if they are a reputable seller.</p><p><br></p><p>So far I have only replaced the battery in my Zune once and not because I had to. I LOL when I saw a Zune in Guardians of the Galaxy. I miss being able to explore a universe of music with it.</p><p><br></p>
-
ndelena
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>That is very disappointing to read. Clearly they struggled to get the same traffic as Apple, but their customer service was outstanding. I once had an issue with my Surface Book 2 base where the GPU no longer showed up when connected. I brought it in to the store on a whim and within 10 minutes they had just swapped mine out with a brand new Surface Book 2 entirely. They clearly empowered their front line staff to make decisions like that to make customers happy without having to go seven levels up for approval. I imagine the same service will continue, but I dread the thought of having to pack up, ship, and wait weeks for similar issues in the future.</p>
-
ebraiter
Log in to Reply<p>@JohnGalt1717</p><p>Ya. Right. sure.</p><p>"<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">The only way that they can become relevant again….." </span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">You are basically saying that Microsoft should scrap everything. </span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Sounds like this article was your way to vent whatever frustration or beef you have with them.</span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">I guess you they'll go bankrupt because they aren't making money from Azure, SQL Server, Exchange, Office or Windows [among others].</span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">So the stores closed up. Who cares. It was a showcase at best. Apple Stores are around for them to show off their latest iGadgets to the fanbois and fangurls or some novice who knows nothing about the iGadget.</span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">I guess you are a dev as it seems 90% of your rant is geared towards that.</span></p>
-
miamimauler
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549971">In reply to ebraiter:</a></em></blockquote><p>"I guess you are a dev as it seems 90% of your rant is geared towards that"</p><p><br></p><p>Devs have every right to rant against MS given the way MS treated them during the WP/WM days.</p>
-
James Hancock
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#549971">In reply to ebraiter:</a></em></blockquote><p>If you don't have the apps, you don't have a business model for the end-user. The only reason why MS is even in the market at all anymore is because of Office. If that goes into the browser, Windows is done. According to Microsoft's own data, the average windows computer has between 0 and 1 apps that aren't a browser, pre-installed or Microsoft office installed on them.</p><p><br></p><p>Ie windows is a glorified Web Browser with Office.</p><p><br></p><p>That, does not a business model make.</p><p><br></p><p>Thus, since every single other approach including actually paying for development has been an abject failure for Microsoft, it's time to try something very different, exactly as they finally admitted with Edge and finally admitted with WSL 2. Both of those exist because Microsoft got off their high horse and realized that it was better to use the hard work of others than fight against it.</p><p><br></p><p>The ONLY way to get developers back to Windows given that browsers are "good enough" for most things, is to make it so damned trivial for them to develop for windows that they do it almost by accident. And they do it, because it's cheaper to write software once instead of 4 or 5 times.</p><p><br></p><p>The ONLY technology that does that convincingly is Flutter, especially when you include web development in a single code base. No other technology even comes close. Certainly not Microsoft's stack.</p><p><br></p><p>If you disagree with this assertion, tell me why instead of making excuses. Tell me what your plan is to fix windows and make it relevant again. Because one thing is absolutely for sure and Paul has been on this a lot, Windows is toast and Microsoft will open source it and walk away within 18 months if they don't come up with a plan. And they have none as it currently stands. No amount of Panos Panay showing amazing hardware solves their fundamental issue which is Developers.</p>
-
ontariopundit
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#550097">In reply to JohnGalt1717:</a></em></blockquote><p><br></p><p>+1 :)</p><p><br></p><p>It's not Office and a Web Browser, it's <strong>Microsoft </strong>Office and <strong>Google</strong> Chrome. Most people who now use Windows use a single program written by a competitor that does cloud, search, operating systems (x 2), hardware ('desktop' and mobile) and advertising.</p><p><br></p><p>Cross platform development will be no savior for Windows' relevance. Windows is a desktop paradigm. You will always need to have <em>both</em> a desktop paradigm and a touch paradigm for computing. One size fits all always will play second fiddle to dedicated R&D for each paradigm. </p><p><br></p><p>Heck, Microsoft even maintains <strong>three </strong>separate teams and code bases for Microsoft Office. Sure, there is some sharing of the code base but there's also a lot of unique material. If you have a simple application, sure, it can be managed in a single code base.</p><p><br></p><p>But, for a program to truly shine it needs to take advantage of the unique features of each operating system that make a program "sing' for that particular paradigm of computing!</p><p><br></p><p>eBay, for example, is a useful tool on Android, but it is not the application that makes it useful (in fact, the application is downright AWFUL). It is the underlying website! (same thing with Kijiji… AWFUL program but useful tool… and for many other programs that are merely 'portals' to the website).</p><p><br></p><p>You're also dealing with two different customer bases: those of us who understand what happens to your body as you hit middle age and beyond and those who don't. Old habit die hard. While I've transitioned much of my trivial communication to my phone (even as my body starts its age-related degeneration), there is much that I still do on my touch-enabled laptop (none of it involving touch :).</p>
-
faustxd9
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>This is sad to see. My nieces took a lot of classes there when they were down for the summer and I bought them computers from the store. I enjoyed walking in and seeing the range of great devices. Plus is made me feel good as a fan of a lot of their products! Plus they had some great sales on devices like the Kano line.</p>
-
Jan Abraham
Log in to Reply<p>Soo… I have $50 worth of Microsoft Gift Cards that I got from a physical microsoft store. They are explicitly limited to their physical stores and they state right on the cards that it is not redeemable for purchases online. It also says the cards do not expire and so I was planning on using them when purchasing a Series X down the line. The codes on the back are not the same as those on cards that can be redeemed at redeem.microsoft.com as they are not 25 characters long and are numbered only with a barcode. Does anyone know how one can redeem them now that the physical stores are closed?</p>
-
miamimauler
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#550030">In reply to Jan_Abraham:</a></em></blockquote><p>Jan, I would imagine that if you contacted MS they would have a plan in place for cases like yours.</p><p><br></p><p>MS will honor your Gift Card. I'm certain of it.</p>
-
illuminated
Log in to Reply<p>I liked Microsoft stores. It was a good place to see the real hardware and people working there knew stuff. I guess Microsoft can save some money and have something like dedicated display at best buy.</p>
-
BudTugglie
Log in to Reply<p>Now where do I get my Windows phone repaired?</p>
-
miamimauler
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#550070">In reply to BudTugglie:</a></em></blockquote><p>Lol, good one. ??</p>
-
illuminated
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#550070">In reply to BudTugglie:</a></em></blockquote><p>And where can I get my XP re-installed?</p>
-
craigb
Log in to Reply<p>Well it was good while it lasted.</p>
-
Jorge Garcia
Log in to Reply<p>If, instead of going with those hard-to-explain-to-auntie Chromebooks, Google had fashioned a fork of Android that looked and felt "more-or-less" like Windows to the end user, but had access to the Google Play store (and nothing else), along with some competent desktop and laptop hardware, Microsoft would be even further in the consumer's rear view mirror than they are today. I know almost no one who VOLUNTARILY fires up Windows anymore, other than gamers. Samsung seems to be the only company that gets this concept which is why I hope they soon go all-in on their DeX software, as in creating a range of bespoke laptops and desktops running it as the sole OS. I would gladly hand my older family members a DeX-based android laptop to have "fun" with, but I would feel like a horrible person giving them a windows machine to suffer with in 2020.</p>
-
AlexKven
Log in to Reply<p>Now when it's time to try out the brand new Surface Neo before you buy, you just gotta close your eyes and use your imagination! </p>
-
naddy69
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#550093">In reply to AlexKven:</a></em></blockquote><p>It’s so cute that you still believe the Neo has a chance in hell of being released. </p>
-
olditpro2000
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#550118">In reply to naddy69:</a></em></blockquote><p><br></p><p>I was thinking about that earlier. Neo was supposed to be released later this year, but 10X was delayed, plus the pandemic.</p><p><br></p><p>My gut feeling is that it will be "reimagined" which as another commenter said the other day really just means "destroyed."</p>
-
Paul Thurrott
Premium MemberLog in to ReplyIs there a way to express this opinion without being a jerk to the other person?
-
AlexKven
Log in to Reply<blockquote><a href="#550093"><em>In reply to </em></a><em>naddy69 </em></blockquote><p>Not really where I was going with that comment, but it would be just like Microsoft to kill it. Covid isn't the dumbest excuse, but it gets old after they keep finding ways to kill really good consumer products.</p>
-
Paul Thurrott
Premium MemberLog in to ReplyThe Microsoft Store wasn’t a good consumer product. It was a money-losing operation that was unsustainable before the pandemic and even worse since then. I think it’s impressive that they’re retaining the entire staff, they very easily could have just laid them all off. So they’re incurring a huge cost here even after the shutdown.
-
red77star
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#550715">In reply to paul-thurrott:</a></em></blockquote><p>I could give you a list of the things which will unfold with Microsoft in the next 5 years. You could make a fortune writing about it before it happens :)</p><p><br></p>
-
dallasnorth40
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>This is really awful!</p>
-
bleeman
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>Really sorry to hear this. When I still lived in Texas the store in Frisco, TX was always busy and the staff there was GREAT! I really enjoyed working with them, being able to have "hands on" time with hardware before purchasing it. I also enjoyed the various activities they offered (Gaming, classes, etc.) and being able to bring my equipment in for service was a lot easier than having to mail it somewhere. Not looking forward to that prospect if something goes wrong with my Studio 2 ?</p><p><br></p><p>Frankly, I'm thinking that I'm going to start removing Microsoft from my life. As a retired IT pro I had planned on continuing my relationship with them, but more and more I can see that as a consumer rather than an IT guy Microsoft doesn't seem to have much interest in me. It's frustrating as they keep removing things right and left. I know other companies do the same and it definitely seems to go with the territory as you get older. There are many things I enjoyed in my younger days that have long since disappeared over the years so I don't kid myself that it would be any better with another company. But I'm just done. I'm tired of investing in something that excites me, meets my needs, etc. to only have it pulled out from underneath me later on. My sweet spot with Microsoft was when I had my Windows Phone, Windows Home Server, Zune, various Surface devices, and Xbox. Everything worked well together. Then things slowly started eroding away.</p><p><br></p><p>My needs are a lot simpler these days. Just something to surf the web with, play some games on, and send/receive E-mail, which I can do with just about anything. So as my Microsoft products die off I won't be replacing them with something else from Microsoft. I can see where at some point I'll probably pull the plug on Windows as well, along with following anything related to it.</p>
-
naddy69
Log in to Reply<p>Once again, folks.</p><p><br></p><p>Microsoft is NOT a consumer products company. They never have been. Yes, they tried. But every single consumer product failed. </p><p><br></p><p>Windows PCs are NOT consumer products. They never will be. They sort of were, 15 years ago. But that was only because there was no other way to get on the internet. </p><p><br></p><p>Now that everyone has a phone (and maybe a tablet), there is no reason for the vast majority of CONSUMERS to own a complicated, hard to use, antiquated, Windows PC. </p><p><br></p><p>Burning money on retail stores when your core customers – businesses – don’t go there (and probably didn’t even know the stores existed) is just plain silly. </p><p><br></p><p>This is a business decision, folks. Just like killing phones and MP3 players was. </p><p><br></p><p><span style="color: rgb(54, 54, 54);">AGAIN, it’s not that MS does not care about consumers. It’s that consumers don’t care about MS.</span></p>
-
Jorge Garcia
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#550103">In reply to naddy69:</a></em></blockquote><p>There was a brief window (pun intended) where if they had beat android to the "alternative to Apple" punch, they might've could've been relevant to the end user to this day, maybe even enjoying the 85% market share that Android currently enjoys. But, alas, it didn't go down that way. They saw the future, and acted on it with PocketPC, but failed to adapt and pivot properly when Apple showed up to the fight. I am certain even Bill counts this among the greatest missteps of all time.</p>
-
naddy69
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#550107">In reply to JG1170:</a></em></blockquote><p>Love your TRS-80 Model 3. ? High Tech in 1980. </p>
-
Jorge Garcia
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#550115">In reply to naddy69:</a></em></blockquote><p>I like that image so much because it reminds me how far we've come in such a short time. I am extremely frustrated that here we are in 2020 and only locked-down Apple seems to "get" how to make computers for the "people".</p>
-
illuminated
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#550103">In reply to naddy69:</a></em></blockquote><blockquote>Now that everyone has a phone (and maybe a tablet), there is no reason for the vast majority of CONSUMERS to own a complicated, hard to use, antiquated, Windows PC. </blockquote><blockquote><br></blockquote><p>I assume you have not seen new phones lately. </p>
-
peterc
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>Well….. the list of closures continues. To think 5 or 6 yrs ago my win mobile and surface pro 3 were my go to devices for everything, yet today now I’m sitting here typing with my iPad Pro and iPhone….. and my windows desktop is used for work tasks only when I go over and switch it on. </p><p><br></p><p>The windows and devices group are going to have to have some epic turnaround success to avoid Microsoft becoming the 365 and Xcloud company…. that’s quite a lot of pressure on Panos to succeed….. It doesn’t bare thinking about what his exact business brief is. It leads to some pretty stark choices ( surface??) I’d fasten your seat belts people as the list of closures ain’t over yet and the current global pandemic situation is ripe for burying some bad news….</p>
-
Scsekaran
Log in to Reply<p>There is only one store in U.K-London Regent Street . In my experience, it predominantly worked an experience centre / show case rather than proper retail store. I am glad it is going to be there in the future.</p><p><br></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Last year I tried to pre-order surface pro X In London Regent Store but there were none on display and ordered by online / telephone rather than physical store with the additional protection of online sales.</span></p><p><br></p><p>I never felt lack of physical store in U.K impeding my decision making. John Lewis and to some extend PC World UK have separate sections for Microsoft products. Especially John Lewis tend to provide good experience and two year warranty rather than 1 year standard and stores are scattered across the country.</p>
-
Rickydavis40
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>Microsoft is a big company. Big companies make a lot of money. They spend this money in various ways so that they can keep making a lot of money. They spread their bets so that in the end one of those bets becomes a winner. They saw Apple winning over at that table( physical stores), and they decided to go sit at the table and start betting money. It did not work out that great for them. They now see this other table, where Amazon is making alot of money (AWS), so now they are sitting at that table and betting money. So far they seem to be doing ok. I don't see the closing of the retail stores as an indicator of their creativity or long term viability. It is merely an exercise of allocating their resources in business models that either do good or not do good. It is like Warren Buffet pulling his money out of the Airline's industry. It is a realization that due to the Covid 19 reality, certain business models will struggle to make money. Under Satya, they do not have an emotional attachment to their bets like they once did. The key to good business in my thinking is recognizing when you are making bad bets. I think it is a good move. </p>
-
red77star
Log in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#550180">In reply to Rickydavis40:</a></em></blockquote><p>Microsoft is leaving consumer space and going Azure / Cloud big time. That is their business model and they will be ok doing that until there is no more Windows and then the chain of the events will hit them back so hard they will never recover from.</p>
-
hrlngrv
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>About time.</p><p>Purely as a financial matter, they've always been and likely always would have been money losers. They were pure Ballmer vanity projects. Odd that it took Nadella so long to dump them.</p><p>Also, the machine I lust after and can't afford (well, justify) is a Dell Precision 7540, with a joystick pointer and a full number pad. I very much doubt I'd ever have seen one in a MSFT brick & mortar store had I ever been within 50 miles of one.</p>
-
Paul Thurrott
Premium MemberLog in to ReplyBallmer vanity projects.
Ah boy.
Ballmer is the guy who set the company on its current path, not Satya Nadella.
-
olditpro2000
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<blockquote><em><a href="#550470">In reply to paul-thurrott:</a></em></blockquote><p><br></p><p>Perfect example is Azure, which was Project Red Dog when it was started with Ballmer still at the helm.</p>
-
docpaul
Log in to Reply<p>This makes me so sad. Stopping by the Microsoft Store has been the highlight of my trips to downtown. And as weird as this might sound, a source of a lot of good memories with my family. </p>