Hands-On with the New iOS 14 User Experience

Posted on June 24, 2020 by Paul Thurrott in iOS with 51 Comments

OK, I wasn’t going to install iOS 14 this quickly. But then I rewatched the WWDC keynote. And, oh right. Live tiles.

OK, not really. But in bringing widgets to the Home screen and expanding their capabilities to include multiple sizes, Apple has, sort of, brought that feature that Windows phone users still lament to its flagship mobile platform. I mean, how can a boy resist?

There’s a lot going on here, but the biggest changes in iOS 14 are arguably related to the home screen, which is the previously static interface that Apple’s customers use to launch apps. So I’m going to focus only on that here.

As you may know, Apple slowly evolved the home screen interface in previous iOS releases to address the explosion of available apps with folders, and it added a feed to the left of the left-most home screen that contained widgets. With this release, iOS 14 is evolving further to better address the underlying need of each feature/

Home screen folders still exist, of course, as does the ability to create multiple home screen pages. But with iOS 14, Apple is adding something called the App Library that acts as a sort of a poor man’s All Apps screen (like we see in Android). Available to the far right of the right-most home screen, the All Apps screen automatically organizes all of the apps on your handset into very large folders.

Why not just have a real All Apps screen? It’s a good question. But Apple users can better approximate this useful interface by hiding app icons from the home screen. So they’ll still appear in the App Library, but not on any home screen page. It’s a dumb extra step, but it can be made a bit more seamless going forward by another new Android-inspired feature that lets you configure if newly-installed apps even appear on the home screen in the first place.

The App Library is pretty good, and I’ll probably take the time to hide all the non-essential app icons that are not taking up valuable on-screen real estate at some point. But the bigger news here, and not just to one-time Windows phone fans, is that iOS 14 finally lets users integrate widgets into the home screen. Tied to this, iOS’s widgets are now available in multiple sizes—sound familiar?—so that one can make fun arrangements like this.

What Apple is still inexplicably not doing is letting users arrange individual icons anywhere on-screen, as has been available in Android forever. Instead, all iOS icons must appear in the top- and left-most available position on-screen. And to be clear, this isn’t just some personal preference: This puts icons out of reach for people who prefer to use the phone one-handed; on Android, I purposefully arrange all of my home screen icons to be on the bottom half of the screen so that they are easily reachable.

And yes, I know there are non-discoverable shortcuts to scrunch the screen down to make it easier to access those top-most icons. Who cares? Apple has a dock for your most-often needed icons, and that dock is at the bottom of the screen, always. Why would iOS require all other icons to be as far away from that dock as possible? It’s illogical and inconsistent.

Well, the nice thing about putting widgets on the home screen is that you can somewhat mitigate this limitation by place a huge widget in the top half of a home screen page; that pushes the remaining icons to the bottom half. On Android, I have a weather/time/calendar widget at the top of the first home screen and then two rows of icons plus the dock on the bottom. With iOS 14, I can now somewhat approximate that.

Yeah, it’s not perfect. But you know. Apple.

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Comments (55)

55 responses to “Hands-On with the New iOS 14 User Experience”

  1. RobertJasiek

    Thread title: 4 -> 14

    iOS 14 news are boring. Instead, I would want to see greatly improved file management, replacement of iTunes Windows system services by one driver, "disable all" buttons in the settings, brought back battery report "hours used since last charging" and fixed Safari video streaming bugs.

    • nbplopes

      In reply to RobertJasiek:


      What would you like improved in the file management department?

      • RobertJasiek

        In reply to nbplopes:

        Everything.

        • management of files of all apps together instead of app-centric and operations for one app after another
        • in each app, simply open files instead of sharing files to one app after another
        • show all files (of apps, if system files should remain excluded) instead of not showing files of many apps, files in particular folders (such as an iTunes folder of an app) or files of particular types
        • manage all file types
        • include scope of management to app configuration files
        • work for all apps instead of depending on each app's implementation of Files functionaly
        • always work for all files instead of often only work for one file at a time
        • manage all files without first dupllicating them into the files app
        • always have all file operations available instead of often inhibiting wanted operations, such as "mark all" then "share all"
        • introduce cut and paste
        • provide powerful file tools, such as recursion and renaming
        • let each app get access to the functionality of a full file management
        • make experience consistent system-wide instead of different in different apps and peculiar for some things, such as browser downloads
        • provide command line
        • provide access rights
        • remove bugs, such as showing a non-existing folder whose display cannot be deleted
        • etc.


        In summary, do it like in Windows or Linux instead of cultivating the Walled Garden of Incompetence.

        • lvthunder

          In reply to RobertJasiek:

          That is never going to happen. It is more secure to do it the way they do it.


          If you think Apple is going to provide a command line or access rights on a phone you are kidding yourself.

          • RobertJasiek

            In reply to lvthunder:

            Right, I do not expect Apple to provide command line or access rights to i(Pad)OS but I want both.

            When you say, that it was more secure to do it the way they do it, maybe you refer to "usage security safe for naive users, who cannot accidentally block themselves by any access rights"? For skilled users, access rights very greatly increase security in relation to third persons locally or anywhere in the world.

        • nbplopes

          In reply to RobertJasiek:


          • ”management of files of all apps together instead of app-centric and operations for one app after another“


          You can have your work documents (text, video, image ...) anywhere you want, together: Locally or on you favorite cloud service. It supports, regular file system folder tree and full text search. You can even use file tagging, something that one cannot do in Windows 10 for instance.


          What do you mean by all files of all apps? The binaries? The configs database files? For what? To hack them?


          • in each app, simply open files instead of sharing files to one app after another


          You can work that way. The app needs to support it by using the Files app.. For instance in the PC a mail app, or notes app does not work that way. There are plenty of apps in the iPad that a file centro data management approach. Some do not Just like the PC.


          • show all files (of apps, if system files should remain excluded) instead of not showing files of many apps, files in particular folders (such as an iTunes folder of an app) or files of particular types


          It shows files of all apps that save to the file system.


          • manage all file types


          But you can manage files of any type in files. What are you talking about?


          • include scope of management to app configuration files


          Don’t understand. App developers can opt for using the file system or its own storage system scoped by a storage container ... more secure.


          • work for all apps instead of depending on each app's implementation of Files functionaly


          Apps that have that have a file centric approach to data storage usually use Files. Just like in the PC. Just like a PC. Now files private and secured to the application aren’t accessible by other apps.


          • always work for all files instead of often only work for one file at a time


          Operations can be made to one file or multiple. What do you mean?


          • manage all files without first dupllicating them into the files app


          Well. iOS is a more advanced file system than Windows 10. In particular each app a works with a secured storage container. Still the app developer may choose to use the general file system to store its data, upon user permission. This is done amongst many other things, for security purposes.


          • introduce cut and paste


          There is a cut & paste operation. It’s called MOVE. You can start with a copy and end with a move. Are you sure you know how to use the Files app (you know, the file explorer of the iPad OS?


          • provide powerful file tools, such as recursion and renaming


          What do you mean? You can rename files. You don’t have is a command line to do so.


          • let each app get access to the functionality of a full file management


          Each app can have the functionality to do so. The developers need to use the components to make it happen.


          • make experience consistent system-wide instead of different in different apps and peculiar for some things, such as browser downloads


          It is consistent. The developer opted to put browser downloads in its own secured space. That is all.

          • provide command line


          For the recursion?


          • provide access rights


          You have already access rightts management to many resources including Files. The access is given per app, rather then logged in user role.


          • remove bugs, such as showing a non-existing folder whose display cannot be deleted


          Sometimes the bug is in the Cloud provider. For instance, I’ve noticed the OneDrive adapter has some bugs.


          .... etc. I think you may need to study a bit more how the Files app works.


          It’s seams that you want to tun an iPad OS into a Desktop PC but why? I see this tendency systematically from Windows aficionados. It’s the files, its the position of the icons etc etc etc. Don’t you have so many PC options already?


          Still Thera are many things that you think the file management system of the iPad OS does not support, but it does in fact. And supports other use cases that you may not be used to as a PC guy used to the per file previleges rules as well as Installing anti virus and file scanners to lookup for infected files.


          Maybe “Everything” is mostly what you don’t know but think you know :)


          There are nevertheless many evident things to be improved in the iPad OS files explorer (Files) from usability perspective. Especially with a mouse. Somethings tasks / options seam redundant if not that well put together ... unfortunately. As a user that appreciates simplicity and good functional design sometimes is disappointing ... even though I believe it will be improved ... but such as feature is mundane and lazy. Wether for Apple or any other company with such amount of resources.


          Cheers


          • RobertJasiek

            In reply to nbplopes:

            You mention cloud. While cloud can be used by those wishing to use it, it is no solution for those (like me) who never want to use it.

            I have invested much time in studying Files so I know reasonably well what it can(not) do.

            Yes, I do want iPadOS to have desktop PC functionality. Why? Because I want such functionality, especially with respect to file management! Except for an OS running at all without crashing, it is the by far single most important aspect of usage of any OS. Without that functionality, I never buy price-wise high end devices with iPadOS, the price I am willing to spend on low end to mid-priced devices is reduced by €200 and, on iPadOS, I can only do 1/3 of everything I want to do compared to what I do under a desktop OS. That's why. Missing file management functionality inhibits very much usage and work.

            You say that I could have work documents anywhere I want. It is false. 1) When browsing and saving a picture, in most cases, I am only given one option I do not want: saving to Apple's photo app. This means extra backup work because the photo app needs extra file management. It also sometimes (and not even rarely) happens that iPadOS does not offer me any option to save a picture at all. 2) When using Safari to download a file with a non-mainstream file format, say ABC, it is saved to Safari's download place I do not want to use. This means extra backup work because the Safari download place needs extra file management. 3) If I use the Documents app and store files in its iTunes folder, then the Files app does not see any of those files at all. Now, that Files has got SMB support, I do not need iTunes for individual files (other than app configuration files) any more so I can circumvent the missing functionality of Files. However, the fact remains also for (3) that iPadOS inhibits having work documents anywhere I want. 4) Etc.

            You say that Files supported regular file system folder tree. It does not! It only has what looks like one within the Files app. 1) However, it does not show the file system folder trees of most other apps. Files only shows file system folder trees of some apps and, in that case, mostly only a fraction of all the other apps' files and folders. It is possible to duplicate files or folders to enhance those seen in Files but that is not file management - instead it is superfluous extra work for the sole purpose of emulating what Files should have automatically but does not: a regular file system folder tree. 2) Never would Files show any of my apps' configuration files. This creates extra backup work: I need iTunes and other softwares under Windows relying on iTunes to backup iPadOS app configuration files as files. 3) Never would Files show any system files. If I wanted to access them, I would need other softwares under Windows relying on iTunes for that purpose. Hence, Files does not support regular file system folder tree. It only supports a tiny fraction and, among that, often only by means of superfluous extra work.

            What do I mean by all files of all apps? I do mean just that. All user application files, all app configuration files and all app files. Files does not show most user application files of apps and does not at all show any app configuration files and app files. Typical example: If I have 1000 files in the Documents app, the Files app shows 0 of them. Yes, none! Do not blame the specific other app; Files also does not show the user application files of Apple's own apps as far as I use them (including Safari, Books, Photos). Not even files of mainstream file formats.

            For what purpose? User application files - why do you even ask?! App configuration files: to backup or to create a source from which to replace different versions (Examples: bookmarks, TV program lists). System files: I would want to backup to have an emergency tool for later occurring OS bugs or security gaps manually fixed but I can tolerate having no access to system files on the black box iPadOS system because its terrible file management prevents almost all work on it so that I do not need the degree of security I apply on a desktop OS to protect work against hackers exploiting especially long unfixed security bugs.

            I can work "that way" (such as simply opening a file in an app) but the app needs to support this: exactly! Since the iPadOS file management is not (repeat: not) general, each app needs to implement basic functionality on its own. Almost all apps don't do it or not sufficiently so I cannot work "that way" with those apps I otherwise want to use because otherwise they do what I want. Instead, I would have to use (and often extra pay for) apps with possibly some reasonable file management but without the non-file-management-related app functionality I want and need.

            You say that Files would show all files of all apps saving to the file system. Maybe. I never meet such apps. Those apps with functionality I want and need do not save to the file system in a way that Files would automatically always show and delete all those files. Because the Files app is not general. Instead, it requires each app to first reimplement its file management so that Files automatically knows of it. Or so the myth goes. I cannot confirm because I have never seen any such other app. Years after introduction of the i(Pad)OS file system and the Files app, those apps I use because of their good non-file-management-related app functionality still do not show the slightest sign of saving to the file system enabling Files to then automatically show and delete all the files.

            You say that I could manage files of any type in Files. I can't. E.g., I frequently need SGF files. When downloading them in Safari, my only available option is putting them into its download space and I cannot manage them in Files (unless I first backup them to my desktop PC and then transfer them back to Files or use a similar workaround equalling not being able to manage those files directly in Files).

            You say that app configuration files could be management in Files if the app developers opted for that functionality. Maybe but 1) the apps I use do not do that and 2) Files is lacking the general functionality of managing all app configuration files without each app being required to implement such. Why can Windows software (such as iMazing or SynciOS) for iTunes see the app configuration files without having implemented it for the iPadOS Files app (it worked before the Files app appeared)? This proves that a software on iPadOS and the iPad itself could, in principle, access and show the app configuration files. In particular, the Files app could do this - now listen carefully - without first requiring any third app to implement that access. Instead of blaming all third apps, there is only one app to be blamed for its missing implementation: the Files app itself!

            You mention "more secure". No. The walled garden, app-centric file management of i(Pad)OS is not a security means but a pretence. Files can be shared etc. so there is no separation securitywise. The walled garden restrictions may prevent dull users from accidentally using another app to manipulate a file and prevent (easy or at all) backup of bought media files but that is restriction of easy use instead of security.

            You say: "Apps that have that have a file centric approach to data storage usually use Files. Just like in the PC. Just like a PC. Now files private and secured to the application aren’t accessible by other apps.". I am aware of this excuse. Instead of always letting the user decide whether he wants files to be generally accessible or app-centric, Apple and the app developers create the walled garden of unwanted restrictions imposed on the user. I am all for file restrictions and use them excessively on my desktop PC but always do I want and need to decide what files to assign what access restrictions. Even if it should only be the most basic rights "for all apps" versus "only for that particular app" that iPadOS would provide, it always has to be user himself to choose which access rights apply. Because it is the user who wants to use the files - not "the user who cannot use some files because of access restrictions imposed by the OS or apps". Not Steve Jobs decides what I want to do by I myself decide it.

            You say that operations could be made to one file or multiple. Sometimes. In general, no! Example: in the Books app, select all then share all is unavailable. Because iPadOS file management is not general but leaves very much to be implemented to each app. Example: last time I heard about it, email attachments were restricted to one file instead of allowing any number files (but I do not use email on Apple devices also because of the terrible file management).

            You say that iOS was a more advanced file system than Windows 10. There are several aspects to be considered. 1) user functionality: Windows 10 is extremely much more advanced, see e.g. access rights and command lines. 2) low level implementation of the file system: I have heard that AFS is modern in that respect but I cannot really judge how that compares to the low level implementation of Windows 10. I suppose there are some possible advantages of speed etc., which are hard to evaluate because hardware speed is crucial. 3) file access restrictions: the app-centric iPadOS restictions are possible in various different manners under Windows 10 using SIDs, AppContainers, Dynamic Access Control (this is for Windows Server only) etc. Windows 10 offers very many more functionality of access rights that iPadOS does not offer. Therefore, Windows 10 is much more advanced WRT file access restrictions than iPadOS. Oh, maybe you did not know and were only aware of both OS's defaults? By default, iPadOS is more restrictive with respect to user app files than Windows 10. I use access rights under Windows 10 creating much greater restrictions than the iPadOS default while under Windows 10 not inhibiting anything I want to do while most is inhibited under iPadOS I would want to do. SID, AppContainers or Dynamic Access Control can put, e.g., each software in its own security container. Further tools for file restrictions are available in Windows 10.

            If there is an operation MOVE, it is unavailable most of the time. Hey, even DELETE is often unavailable in Files. Because, you know, file management is not implemented as something general.

            Renaming and recursion: you say that it was there. Ugh. If I do it with Files to 100,000 files (normal for me), I would need months. If I do it under Windows, I only need seconds. That is the power of recursion and file renaming softwares working recursively.

            You say: "It is consistent. The developer opted to put browser downloads in its own secured space." Consistent walled garden. Inconsistent backup and sharing are the consequences. BTW, the "developer" here is Apple! Typical Apple: make the experience the walled garden restrictiveness.

            Command line I use for speed of bulk operations, recursion, access rights and those operations unavailable in the GUIs. Command line is not a purpose in itself but necessary whenever functionality is unavailable or cumbersome in the GUIs. Typical command: recursively collect all files of a file type and move them elsewhere. In the Windows 10 GUI, it would take hours. In the Windows 10 command line, it takes 1 minute for, say, 50,000 files in 1,000 folders. Under iPadOS, I think I would need weeks, selecting each file individually in the GUI.

            You say that I have access rights per app not per user. Ok, tell me: how do I set or delete access rights per app under iPadOS? Needless to say, access rights per user is one of the best features of Windows or Linux.

            Don't I have many PC options so as not to need Apple devices? For desktop PCs, yes (a barebone does it). For tablets, no. The number of current Windows or Linux tablets or detachables with 4:3 (or at least 3:2) low reflectance displays is zero. One can get 16:9 semi-matte or 3:2 glare but not what I want and need.

            You say: "There are many things that you think the file management system of the iPad OS does not support, but it does in fact." Typical Apple excuse. If some of those many things exist, they are so very non-general that they are useless (see above).

            Only one thing really has been improved greatly: the introduction of SMB to Files in iPadOS 13. For mainstream file formats, this replaces iTunes and third party softwares for iTunes on Windows. (However, Apple's iPad manual hides SMB. The feature is so good at hurting the Walled Garden and enabling cooperation with Windows devices that Apple does not dare to explain its use.)

            Virus scanners? Spare me! I prefer real security: white listing instead of black listing.

            • nbplopes

              In reply to RobertJasiek:


              "You mention cloud. While cloud can be used by those wishing to use it, it is no solution for those (like me) who never want to use it."


              Fine, don't use Clouds.


              "I have invested much time in studying Files so I know reasonably well what it can(not) do."


              I suspect their lays the fundamental aspect of your criticism of the system. You invested much time being educated by a PC and you feel frustrated that some more learning is required and some concepts seam no longer valid when they are. Much because the what you know is not really that well rooted. So when a system presents you with ways to achieve the same thing looks different when is not that much.


              "Except for an OS running at all without crashing, it is the by far single most important aspect of usage of any OS."


              I guess this runs as a corollary of the above. Meaning, it's not an importance attributed technically.


              "You say that I could have work documents anywhere I want. It is false. 1) When browsing and saving a picture, in most cases, I am only given one option I do not want: saving to Apple's photo app. This means extra backup work because the photo app needs extra file management. It also sometimes (and not even rarely) happens that iPadOS does not offer me any option to save a picture at all. "


              The Photos App, is a file management subsystem dedicated to photos, images and videos. It’s way superior to managing them as files, because the second does not take into account he problems domain and the media types of the artifacts. You may never the less move the objects to files if you want. A poor mans approach on a rich system.


              "This means extra backup work because the photo app needs extra file management. "


              Only if you don't know how to use it. Photos are presented as thumbnails that is all. You can have folders and subfolder, albums dedicated and many other artefacts dedicated to the domain of photos, images and videos. It's a file system dedicated to this domain if you will.


              You see. The way iPad OS works is more advanced than macOS or Windows for a single user while offering facilities to share with other users using other devices and OSs. It's a true domain object oriented system, that integrates multiple subsystems tailored of each specific domain. Instead of eschewing all problem domais into files.


              If Safari does not give you the option to save the file it's because the developer of the website did not wanted you to be able to do it. Possibly due to copyright reasons.


              2) When using Safari to download a file with a non-mainstream file format, say ABC, it is saved to Safari's download place I do not want to use. 


              Safari saves everything to the downloads folder in the Files app. It does not currently have a "Save as ..." option like in the macOS. It may have in the future.


              Having said this, I understand you may not use macOS. But if you do like many, saving the Downloads folder its autumnally synched to the your Mac. Meaning that whatever you download its synched. Something extremely useful for doers.


              3) If I use the Documents app and store files in its iTunes folder, then the Files app does not see any of those files at all. 


              Don't know what the Documents app is. But given the description its seams to be an app that offers a proprietary file management facility on top of iPad OS. It's now silly to use it considering that Files its totally open and works across all apps. If you are using it, it's the same has you using a File Management app with a proprietary file management tech on top of Windows 10.


              "You say that Files supported regular file system folder tree. It does not! It only has what looks like one within the Files app. 1) However, it does not show the file system folder trees of most other apps. Files only shows file system folder trees of some apps and, in that case, mostly only a fraction of all the other apps' files and folders."


              Look. Every app it's a system, even in Windows 10 or macOS. Has a system, there are system files (bin files, system assets, system data files). In iPad OS those files are protected in order to avoid tempering by users or other apps.


              Much as Windows or macOS, the iPad OS do not force developers to provide facilities to save user data to File System outside the scope of the app. The iPad OS, just like any other OS offers devs an API to save and read files from locations outside the scope of the app (Files). It also offers UI controls to explore these locations to read our save files. Meaning just like in macOS and Windows 10, the developers need to use these API to integrated with the File System.


              For instance, the Outlook Mail does not store every email in .eml files. Its stores emais, in a file in non standard format, including indexes so on and so forth. If you move or temper with that file it will break Outlook Mail ... Meaning, this is a system file. I say Mail, but take the Contacts app, take Groove ... man if you think about it actually only a few apps allow you to operate their files. In iPad OS, you any other app don't have access to these files even if you decide that you want to hack them some how. Take One Note for instance, its stores users file in a Specific folder in the Documents Folder called Outlook Notebooks.


              Don't tell me that you are moving and transferring this data has files in Windows 10, macOS or Linux because that would be a factitious statement.


              If you breath for moment, you will find has much of not more non file centric apps than the other.


              "What do I mean by all files of all apps? I do mean just that. All user application files, all app configuration files and all app files. Files does not show most user application files of apps and does not at all show any app configuration files and app files."


              And? Why do you want to temper with files you don't understand.


              "Typical example: If I have 1000 files in the Documents app, the Files app shows 0 of them. Yes, none! Do not blame the specific other app;"

              I think you should talk the with the developer of that app to expose your documents in a way you can understand and make it available in standard iPad File system (Files). The developer is using a proprietary, non standard file system like mechanism in the context of iPad OS.


              "Files also does not show the user application files of Apple's own apps as far as I use them (including Safari, Books, Photos). Not even files of mainstream file formats."


              You are using a straw man approach to domain specific objects. You don't have access Groove music files, kindle books, so on and so forth in either macOS or Windows 10. At least in a way you can use them without the specific app.


              Why you feel more comfortable having access to files that you cannot do nothing with it besides moving their position and break the app, blows my mind.


              Unless you want to hack the app so on and so forth. I bet you don't do it in other systems either for any other purpose either.


              "You say that operations could be made to one file or multiple. Sometimes. In general, no! Example: in the Books app, select all then share all is unavailable. Because iPadOS file management is not general but leaves very much to be implemented to each app." 


              You cannot share books in iBooks unless with your family (Family Share). Has nothing to do with the file management being general or not.


              "You say that iOS was a more advanced file system than Windows 10. There are several aspects to be considered. 1) user functionality: Windows 10 is extremely much more advanced, see e.g. access rights and command lines."


              You have access rights. But iPad OS is not a multi user system. Command line its just a shell, a UX if you will. Meaning that it does not say a thing about the file system in terms of its sophistication.


              2) low level implementation of the file system: I have heard that AFS is modern in that respect but I cannot really judge how that compares to the low level implementation of Windows 10. I suppose there are some possible advantages of speed etc., which are hard to evaluate because hardware speed is crucial.


              Well. What can I say.


              3) file access restrictions: the app-centric iPadOS restictions are possible in various different manners under Windows 10 using SIDs, AppContainers, Dynamic Access Control (this is for Windows Server only) etc.


              iPad OS is not a a multi user or server OS. Yet Its is more advanced in its scoped of course. As other might be better for other scopes.


              You segue a bit like a Car is more Advanced than a Bike because it takes more people ... really?


              Focus on the scope, please. Did not knew you managed files through SIDs or App Containers. I doubt anyone but developers and system administrator s do. The iPad OS does not need system Administrators.


              Has for App Containers ... that is specifically what I've been trying to give information about ... but you don't seam to like it or appreciate it at all. You want to move files freaky in and out of these containers. So don't come a champion that idea that you have been systematically undervaluing it.


              "If there is an operation MOVE, it is unavailable most of the time. Hey, even DELETE is often unavailable in Files. Because, you know, file management is not implemented as something general."


              If the file is accessible through the Files app, it is always available. Always! Never crossed a situation where it was not.


              "Renaming and recursion: you say that it was there. Ugh. If I do it with Files to 100,000 files (normal for me), I would need months. If I do it under Windows, I only need seconds. That is the power of recursion and file renaming softwares working recursively."


              If you need to manage and rename 100.000 files normally, the iPad is not the tool for you. You need a PC. (Windows 10, macOS, Linux or whatever Desktop grade OS).

              "You say that I have access rights per app not per user. Ok, tell me: how do I set or delete access rights per app under iPadOS? Needless to say, access rights per user is one of the best features of Windows or Linux."


              Look man. I've been a developer for 39 years and never did that in my workstation. I understand server people do manage files shares across the network. Also I do that when deploying server applications.


              "You say: "There are many things that you think the file management system of the iPad OS does not support, but it does in fact." Typical Apple excuse. If some of those many things exist, they are so very non-general that they are useless (see above)."


              You seam to be using a straw man approach to everything that you know little about. I do not work for Apple. I really like tech that is all. I learned to appreciate analytical in context. Without context, everything is meaningless.


              "Truck manages renaming 100.000 files recursively across a folder tree. A motorbike manages two. Therefore a truck is more advanced and better for everyone."


              Ot the other way around.


              "Truck does not fit in my garage. A motorbike does. Therefore a motorbike is more advanced and better for everyone."


              There are plenty ..


              "I can stack an uncountable windows on top of each other in this OS. I can cannot stack windows on top of each other in this OS. Therefore the first is more advanced and better for everyone.."


              .... etc etc etc.


              Your spirit of analysis is based on this kind of logical fallacies ... Fundamentally a fallacy starts by taking the subject out of context and that jump logical steps in a world without context to then arrive to a conclusion that appears logic but in fact its not. Some people call it generalising. But generalisation is not that. Generalisation is a process of classification based on common factors taking into account the differences. I find this stuff quite regularly when comparing Windows PC to anything else.


              It's a way of thinking that I find pointless, uninformative ... stupid even.


              Go and play with mobile throttle boxes while may wife does this with a breeze without using a Windows Server on such a form factor ...


              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq3sWT1oxz8


              I find this more of a engineering and design achievement rather than say, putting Windows Server on ARM in a Windows Phone.


              PS: Yes, she knows how to use files, photos so on and so forth. But hey, she only started going deep in tech 6 months ago, so give her a break, shall ya? She hasn't yet seen the light Windows 10 brings to such a form factor. Even though she had a SP3 and has a Lenovo Think Pad ... now in a corner.


              Hey, I use all of these OSs for work. I would like to use just one has much as I would like to have wings. Tried it multiple times like Icarus, but like Icarus my wings got burned and learned that the problem was the way I was thinking about the problem. Its quite an expensive exercise actually.


              Context is everything. Even though MS frequently pitch otherwise. And when it does not work or work well blame someone else, partners, users, consumers, developers ... heck blame tech life “it’s just the way it is now. Next version everything will better” - “if you are not using a Windows PC you are not working hard enough” - fallacies.

              • RobertJasiek

                In reply to nbplopes:

                IPAD A COMPUTER


                Apple advertises the iPad (Pro) as a computer (of sort). From a PR perspective, of course it must. However, when I describe my needs of a computer, I get the (correct) advice that (as far as functionality is concerned) the iPad is not for me but I need a Windows or Linux computer. Right, but the broader picture is that I also need a computing device for handholding in environments with bright light and without power cable. Therefore, I still cannot well avoid the iPad as a secondary device and tablet. (An ebook reader would only be a tertiary device with too little functionality.)


                LEARNING


                I do not oppose learning or some concepts being somewhat different on different OSs. I oppose concepts wasting much time, preventing actions or badly implemented. When they are, such does not vanish by your straw man argument of blaming me for alleged insufficient learning or allegedly not knowing how to use a thumbnail viewer.


                OBJECTS


                Interpreting files as objects is neither an advantage nor a disadvantage. When working with them as objects (such as in a thumbnail viewer), one does so to (pre)view the objects. When working with them as files, one does so to manage possibly many files quickly. The existence of a thumbnail viewer (such as the Photos app) is not any justification of preventing immediate working with files. Both must be possible immediately so that one can always choose the preferred method and apply it as quickly as it allows.


                You call an object-orientated file system (and iPadOS in particular) an advantage but what is the advantage to a file system, whose objects are identified by the suffix of a file name? Next, you use that alleged advantage as an excuse for preventing immediate working with files as files. Initially preventing an alternative method is a disadvantage for this very reason.


                Why do you bring in another straw man argument of a poor man's approach on a rich system? A file manager is not a poor man's approach but a fast working man's approach when speed of file operations is the job. iPadOS is not a rich system just by having some thumbnail viewer because thumbnail viewers are available for every OS. A rich manager would handle both file operations and thumbnails, but such hybrids have the tendency of doing neither particularly well.


                You can call thumbnails and their folders in a thumbnail viewer a file system. However, if you do so, we must then also characterise plain file systems versus thumbnail file systems as to their available file operations, their usage and usage speed. A major difference is: a plain file manager can (or should) provide file operations for all files (whether media or no media etc.) while a thumbnail viewer typically only allows file operations on media visible in thumbnails or their folders. This is one of my complaints: the initial restriction of photos to the Photo app thumbnail viewer prevents initial file operations on all files (whether media or no media).


                SHARING


                For the sake of confusion, there are two kinds of sharing (or transfer): 1) between devices / different OSs, 2) between different iPadOS apps.


                You say: "The way iPad OS works is more advanced than macOS or Windows for a single user while offering facilities to share with other users using other devices and OSs." I do not know about macOS (except having read that there appears to be convenient sharing with iPadOS) but I know Windows. Windows offers facilities to share with other users using other devices and OSs. Therefore, it does not make any sense to call iPadOS "more advanced" in this respect. Maybe you have wanted to say "more convenient" when referring to macOS / iPadOS transfer; could be. Windows sharing tools are not particularly convenient, although using an external USB device is fairly simple but a two-step process (and might be problematic when connected to iPadOS, unless that has changed now, but the fault was on the iPadOS side).


                When speaking of sharing from Books, I mean kind (2). It is possible to share books from the Books app, but only one at a time, as already mentioned and criticised.


                DOWNLOADS


                You write: "If Safari does not give you the option to save the file it's because the developer of the website did not wanted you to be able to do it. Possibly due to copyright reasons." Another two straw man arguments, of which neither applies. The websites in question encourage downloads. The contents creators encourage copying of their files. You do not want to hear it but it is only Apple apologists that bring in alleged copyright issues as excuse when downloads don't work. I have heard the same kind of excuse in an Apple store from a salesman suggesting that I would violate copyright by downloading my own (test) files with my own copyright notice from my own website;)


                FILES APP


                I swear to have met every bug:) In particular, unavailable delete or move are frequent for files in the Files app itself. (The bug rate has been decreased by a divisor of 100 though. The initial Files versions were plain crap.)


                DOCUMENTS APP


                A combination of (internal) file browswer, file transfer manager between iPadOS and Windows, PDF viewer and (partly requiring payment) more. I use it for exporting files to Windows now by sharing via Files' SMB (previously via iTunes and SynciOS). For mainstream file formats, it is the best solution for these purposes. (For importing, directly using Files' SMB and sharing to Documents I find easier.)


                If I only used Files for file transfer to / from Windows, I would lose time (because the file management within Files is cumbersome and furthermore I would have to duplicate all files in Files) and could transfer less. So when using SMB, the Files app is just a pipeline. Documents is the relatively better file manager.


                For its functionality, Documents is a very good app but you might be right that it should implement the file management of Files to enable better working of the Files app when operating on the files in the Documents app. I have to believe you on that because I have yet to see an app that fully uses Files' file management.


                APP CONFIGURATION FILES


                There are two kinds of my uses: 1) simply backup a configuration file to possibly load it later (e.g., because my old app configuration, old booksmarks or old TV program list was better than the new one or uncorrupted by newer bugs), 2) extract contents (such as bookmarks or emails) from a configuration file when necessary (e.g., because Apple goes bankrupt or the app is no longer supported).


                Such backups have served me in the past, especially if the configuration files have been in plain text. I know that careless editing such files harms their reuse as configuration files. Therefore, I edit carefully or, after rescuing contents, do not plan to reuse them. It may not be customary under iPadOS, but under Windows or Linux editing plain text configuration files is a well known method for experienced users, which I have sometimes used when necessary or useful. Some softwares even presume prior editing of some configurations files! Not to mention those of drivers. Needless to say, I edit only such (sections of) configurations files that I understand (or have written myself completely). (You lose your bet.)


                Since you emphasise tempering with configuration files, do not overlook use (1).


                Sorry, but my complaint about Files not accessing app configuration files is not a straw man argument. I do need to backup bookmarks, TV program lists etc. as files so that I preserve the information independent of the persistence of Apple, the particular apps or my iPads. Backup only as device image would not survive Apple and apps but only survive my iPad if I should decide to then buy a new iPad. If I should switch to a mobile device of a different OS, I still want to use my bookmarks, TV program lists etc. Furthermore, I want to use them as a complement to those on my other devices. E.g., I might import my iPad bookmarks to a different browswer on a different device under a different OS. Don't tell me you were not aware of such usage.


                SCOPE OF IPadOS


                You call the scope of iPadOS (presumably you mean the tablet-specific device usage) more advanced. Please explain! If you mean "more touch-friendly UI with better implemented dark mode and (on some iPads) better ambient light control but worse (compared to freely configurable RGB of my desktop monitor) night mode" than, say, desktop mode of Windows 10, ok. But "more advanced" needs explanation.


                And no, the scope is not to be Job's vision of limited use. A device should enable what the hardware can do.


                SECURITY MEANS


                Who said that I did manage files (and softwares) by SIDs and AppContainers?:) I would want to!:) I would be delighted with Dynamic Access Control in Windows 10 (Pro), having suggested such a tool several years before its advent. However, managing softwares by SIDs requires the overkill of creating one user (and its SID) per software. AppContainers lack proper documentation and command line support. Therefore, these principally suitable security means are not realistically available for the power user's manual use.


                Instead, I have to restrict myself to user accounts, user access rights, software restriction policies and the like. In practice, I can separate private from public files / softwares / users and provide special treatment for administration, connection of mobile devices (the iPad!) and granting access for guests. Not perfectly fine tuned but good enough. Instead of treating each software separately, I have to treat groups of softwares. I would do that anyway but finer grained if the finer tools were available.


                JUST ONE


                There we agree: only having to use just one device and OS for everything would be like having wings:)


                Actually, chances increase for Windows fans (with CPUs becoming cool and fast enough for x64) and Apple fans (with Mac and iDevices merging), provided both systems will finally offer a sufficient variety of hardware scope.

                • nbplopes

                  In reply to RobertJasiek:


                  “Apple advertises the iPad (Pro) as a computer (of sort). “


                  There are many kinds of computers today. Servers, Desktops, Laptops, Tablets, Smartphones, Routers, Consolers, Smartwatches, Smart TVs ... This from a technical stand point (Computer Science).


                  Apple plays with the common notion of what a computer is. When people say “I need to buy a computer” usually refer to PC. They know that this perception is mostly behavioral hence the commercial around “what’s a computer?” challenges this erroneous inception.


                  Its kind of fun actually ...


                  “I oppose concepts wasting much time, preventing actions or badly implemented.”


                  If you are using the wrong computer for the job it will always waste more of your time then necessary.


                  My suggestion around learning, is that somethings you pointed out were not true. For instance the lack of cut and paste, a common operation to move files in Windows 10, would imply the one can not move files around. The fact is one can do it very well. The process is just different. For instance if you select a set of files and click copy. When you move to another folder where you want to put the files on, two options are presented ... “paste” and “move”. If you select “paste” it will make a duplicate. If you select “move” it will move the files. Just an example out of other things you have said that aren’t correct and may lead others in error.


                  “DOCUMENTS APP”


                  Has I’ve said, don’t know the app. I don’t have problems moving or sharing files to or from any of the devices I use.


                  “APP CONFIGURATION FILES“


                  Don’t have time today to manually synch app data and configuration files . Because I use , iPad OS, macOS and iOS, things are synced automatically, either through iCloud or P2P comm. This avoids many manual errors. If one device gets corrupted (say system failure) the synching system manages to recover.


                  ”You call the scope of iPadOS (presumably you mean the tablet-specific device usage) more advanced.“


                  I mean like as Airplanes, Trucks, Vans, Cars, Compacts, Motorbikes ... and Bicycles ... all have different scopes They all are kinds of vehicles. None its better than the other in abstract. Some have certain more advanced feature in context than others, so on and so forth. Its not a competition between what is better ins abstract as they have distinct use cases. For me an iPad its like a Motorbike.


                  Computer are vehicles for the mind. As vehicles The problem is that there are some companies that one vehicle is all that is .... more bellow in the end ...


                  I’m a software developer. Using laptops since 1997 and from 2002 almost exclusively. I always missed the power of Trucks (Desktops). There is no better computer to work on a desk than a Desktop. But I needEd something mobile and did not wanted to deal with manual synching.. Fundamentally did not have the time to maintain two full blown development environments. So settled for something more mobile even though not perfect on a Desk. I tried minivans (transportables), tried cars (laptops yet high end), tried Hybrids (Tablet PC) ... still always missed the comforts of a Truck on the desk.


                  So last year returned to using a Truck and am using a Motorbike for mobile computing. I spend around 70-80% of work on the office, and 20-30% out of the desk.


                  In my case an iPad Pro 12.9”. It cover brilliantly those 20-30% of time out of the desk. In fact the experience is overall far superior than single laptop for everything. The funny thing, it’s the over all cost of a Desktop PC + and iiPad Pro 12.9” is not much higher than a powerful high end laptop.


                  You may ask, why not a Laptop PC and a Desktop PC? As I’ve said, don’t have the rime to maintain two full blown desktop environments for software development. If I need the flexibility of a PC for software development while out of office, I simple remote to it ... Which happens only occasionally within those 20.30%. Out of the desk I dedicate most of my time to other equally professional tasks but coding ... Management and Administrative Tasks, Budgeting Documentation, Planing, Conferencing, Presenting, Demoing, Meetings ... etc etc. Do all these with the iPad Pro 12.9” with a keyboard without much ado .. on those 20%-30% Of time.


                  “SECURITY MEANS“


                  Don’t do those kinds of tasks on my personal work devices. But I do want security in a way that does not require me to baby sit the system. Implicit containment of data and apps is for me “god” sent. The problem is not so much when I decide to share specific sets of data, but unattended sharing. Apps usually run with user security grants having access to all files I use. Yes, I understand that I may have authorized access to the file system To read and save data. But still, by doing so means that the app can scan my entire data on the disk, for some reason or another, specifically reasons that I might not expect and that is not cool.


                  So the app having a dedicated space where it can store its files, and only store outside if I allowed it In the context of a specific operation its what I need. The operation can be say, exploring a file, or a set of files, reading or saving a specific file or files by my command ... whatever. Now whatever the app needs to save automatically for its function, do it in its container.


                  The drawback of this, including the automatic containment, maybe that I can no longer put files anywhere I may feel like. I’m fine with that. Actually, that freedom in the end, does not add that much ... in my context.


                  As long I’m able to export my data out of the container I’m fine with it.


                  In the end, its like just one file system when some areas are access restricted. Meaning, you can import and export data in and out, for specific purposes. Backup or whatever. Its fire walled.


                  If this way of working avoids me using viruses scanners and other stuff (say some apps is secretely scanning and uploading my files ...) justifies the change of workflow enough. for instance if all my contact database one in a file freely accessible simply by using my account prevelegies than stuff like “The app X is asking to access your contacts” its just cosmetic.


                  The nice thing in the iPad OS is that data is searchable across containers. So data can still be easily located and related.


                  “JUST ONE”


                  Don’t think you understood me. That is how I used to think. Not anymore.


                  The idea that everything is a PC, only shape changes its a fallacy people try hard to believe on. This idea as proven over and over and over and over again to carry loads of side effects. But its indeed very convenient stance to market a one OS rules them all. For one thing people believe in mans with wings, who wouldn’t want to have wings as long as we could take them out when not needed. For another, it perpetuates the status quo of one OS and Architecture over others regardless of what it will come next ... Where is Hololens? Where is Windows Phone, Where is UMPC ... ... .... the main PC leverage is legacy and what a magníficent leverage :)


                  You see as much as say Tablets will get more powerful, so will Desktops.. And with that power more use cases will be tackled,, both for desktops, laptops and tablets .... The power scale will change with this transition. I honestly think Apple will come up with 12 core laptops and 24 cores desktops in the next two years at the prices of a MacBook Pro or a regular iMac in the next two years.


                  We just have to wait and see what happens.

                • Greg Green

                  In reply to nbplopes:

                  Holy moley, I think my scroll wheel broke.

                • RobertJasiek

                  In reply to nbplopes:

                  While I understand your "motorbike" usage of an iPad Pro and your preference for easy synchronisation, my needs for an iPad (currently Mini, might be Air) differ: Modest speed is good enough but powerful file management (which does not need a fast CPU) should exist. The hardware of an iPad is good enough for my needs of a tablet as a secondary device but the OS prevents appropriate use of the hardware by failing to provide powerful (and bug-free) file management. It is like a motorbike in Fort Knox. While you appreciate the easy synchronisation with macOS (and maybe the cloud), I would appreciate easy file management WITHIN iPadOS and more capable synchronisation (then including app configuration files, all file types) with Windows.


                  When file operations are available (instead of greyed out or not shown at all), they work. When file operations are unavailable, they do not work at all. One of the problems with iPadOS file management is that the latter occurs at all and even frequently. You might be lucky not to notice it in your usage but I am unlucky to be heavily affected by it.


                  I made one mistake though: the confusing Germanisation of the UI here writes "Bewegen" where I expected to read "Move". This command is sometimes available in Files. Only sometimes - not always. With this limitation, I cannot share your assessment "very well".


                  I test the Files app now again. I click on Select (German: Auswählen) and have to wait 10 seconds before anything happens. I select a folder and Share (Teilen), Duplicate, Move and Delete are unavailable; only More is available. I click More, have to wait 10 seconds and see Copy and Compress. But what I want to do (Delete) is impossible. I click on Done (Fertig) and have to wait 10 seconds. I click on Select, then select a different folder, then see most commands available. This experience with Files is typical: it sometimes works, sometimes works only partially and sometimes does not work at all, and unexpected behaviour (here: long delays) occurs, too.


                  Thanks for clarifying your "just one computer" view. Except for my recently occurring extra need for a gaming computer as a consequence of AI advances, my demand for CPU speed is relatively modest: i3 is good enough. When i3 will be combined with current tablet CPU energy consumption (might occur with Tiger Lake), the only remaining aspect (besides the display) is availability of ports. Therefore, a well constructed tablet could become my only computer (except for AI gaming). Other power users have said that Surface Go already fulfilled the "just one computer" idea (if we ignore their smartphones). If, however, a tablet does not have enough ports, a dock might be needed and then sticking with two computers remains a similar solution.

                • nbplopes

                  In reply to RobertJasiek:


                  Hey.


                  It’s very simple. You cannot have access to OS system files or app system files. Is up for apps to put user data accessible through Files.The advantages of this design have been explained to exhaustion (security containers etc etc).


                  The filé system supports local drive, attached drives, network drives SMB, cloud drives (iCloud, One Drive, Dropbox ...) and custom drives.


                  Cloud and Custom Drives are supported by apps. If the apps are buggy has nothing to do with the file system. Case in case OneDrive is shit. I don’t use it.


                  As for app config file synch is up for the app to provide that function. Some apps integrate with iCloud to provide this synch, other with Dropbox ... Most people don’t know what config files are needed to backup, the deve might change then, location etc ... it’s a mess to let it up to the user. If you want to waste time this is not the system for you that is!


                  If you don’t want to use Cloud Drives to synch your data, use the Local drive and attach external drives for backup you data, or synch data manually. Norhing is grayed out, options appear in a consistent way. Why? because it does not depend on the shitty job developers made when building their app.


                  All this, except for the first paragraphs, implicit containment of system file. Is common to Desktop OSs. Now you may say because of this and the lack of command line it does not work for you, fine. But it does not mean that the file system is buggy, not well built or less advanced than the Desktop OS counterpart.


                  There are many things in your description that are missing when you state the problems you have found. I suspect you maybe using a mounted OneDrive drive. Report that shit to Microsoft. Or whatever Cloud Drive you use.


                  You mentioned iPad Air and Mini. Personally I find impossible to be productive for longer than 10 mins in a screen less than 13”. It becomes cumbersome regardless of OS. 12.9 it’s the limit. If you choose anything less than that it’s your call.


                  PS: My kids to all they homework on iPads. ITs great for them. I wish there was a 12.9 option for around 650.


                  I have never had a problem of lost data or corrupted system in iOS, slow downs or whatever in 10 years of use. This without babysitting the system as you seam so inclined to do. For me, that is the benchmark in a mobile system. A category that I include laptops. This is what matter for me not how it is done. I wish laptops had such a robust behavior as I wish that the iPad Pro evolved faster in things that are obvious that can be improved.


                  Files app can and should be improved in many areas in terms of usability. Not it’s robustness.

                • RobertJasiek

                  In reply to nbplopes:

                  Of course, one access app configuration files, as already mentioned, e.g., via third party iTunes-dependent software for Windows. I do understand the philosophy though that apps SHOULD provide interfaces for the user to see and share / export all the relevant data. However, many developers are too lazy.

                  If system files were available easily with user data in readible format, I would have simply corrected the Files bug related to unremovable folder. Without this, the only option is resetting iPadOS entirely because the softer approaches of uninstalling and reinstalling Files and the other app of the folder have been in vain and major new iPadOS versions have left the unremovable folder untouched instead of creating a clean Files app experience.

                  I do not use a mounted cloud server drive. In fact, I have never used any cloud but stated clearly that I do not use clouds.

                  For creative productivity, my display is 19". Small to medium tablet displays I use for proofreading etc., which is possible because my documents have A5 size incl. white borders. For proofreading A4, I would use at least ca. 13". Light browsing and occasional TV are fine on the Mini. For real browsing, I use my 19" monitor and Windows, of course.

                  With Windows and since I have been an experienced user, lost data or corrupted system do not occur, either. Backup are mandatory because eventually storage dies and rarely RAM can be affected by cosmic rays or the like. Power might be interrupted. Well, the truth is I am not perfect and make errors. Like every human being. One must prepare for such incidents. More frequent backups, you know.

                • nbplopes

                  In reply to RobertJasiek:


                  ”I do not use a mounted cloud server drive. In fact, I have never used any cloud but stated clearly that I do not use clouds.”


                  So I don’t understand how can you have sometimes grayed out options or options that are misteriusly unavailable. It never, I repeat never happed to me. Using external drives. Don’t forget that it needs to be FAT, FAT-32 or exFAT. Are you sure that did not happened to you with a Cloud drive of sorts and you are now generalizing?


                  Really weird stuff.


                  As i said, system files are not accessible and will never be in iPad OS. Maybe devs can store config data in the Files app. That is by design. And its something that Microsoft is pursuing with App Containers etc etc etc. But legacy carrões a lot of weight, I doubt they will ever achieve a common usage. For iPad OS and iOS, that would be going backwards.

                • RobertJasiek

                  In reply to nbplopes:

                  Programming bugs of Files affecting the iPad itself!

                  As expected because Apple supports synchronisation with other Apple devices better than local file management on the iPad itself and file transfer with Windows devices. This is Apple's DNA. Files was said to have worked very well with iCloud for years while local file management and file transfer with Windows devices was the perfect model of a buggy program. Today, the remains of those bugs persist. That's why you never experience bugs as a user fully integrated in the Apple environment but I frequently experience bugs as a user rejecting the Apple environment. Apple makes it great for Apple followers but terrible for Apple deniers. Always has.

                • nbplopes

                  In reply to RobertJasiek:


                  It is impossible to work well in iCloud Drive and badly in the local file system. The iCloud Drive ... is build on top of it. I’ve been using the local file system for years.


                  File transfers with Windows ... only recently the Files app started fully supporting external drive mounts with iOS 13. Before, you needed to use third party apps for the purpose.


                  This and other reasons are why only in the end of last year I transitioned to the combination stated in the previous posts.


                  As a customer I follow no brand or company.

                • RobertJasiek

                  In reply to nbplopes:

                  "It is impossible to work well in iCloud Drive and badly in the local file system." Haha. When Files had iCloud Drive access with reports of that working well, my local use of Files was impossible because "On My iPad" did not appear. Later, a hack enabled it. Since iPadOS 13, the hack is no longer needed.

                • nbplopes

                  In reply to RobertJasiek:


                  Humm. So now we a resorting to reports?


                  On iOS 11, “On My iPad” location would not appear if it was without files . Meaning if you Had saved a file to “On My iPad” the location it would. They changed that to always appear I guess. Can’t say when as I never noticed this.


                  I’m not saying its perfect and agree that needs to be improved. I agree with you on that one. Heck I agree this regarding most apps. But most of the things you mentioned are there working well. There are others that you did not from a UX perspective, that actually drag the speed operation down in practice, that should and will be better. No, it’s not the lack of “cut& paste” or a command-line shell.


                  Roget out.,

                • RobertJasiek

                  In reply to nbplopes:

                  In 2 years, we check if Finder will be available on iPadOS. Otherwise, in 10 years we check whether practical speed of all needed file operations will then equal that on Windows 10.

                • nbplopes

                  In reply to RobertJasiek:


                  No now you have declared iPad OS is 10 years behind in FS and Finder is 8. That assessment sounds and looks credible. What a waste of bandwidth.

                • RobertJasiek

                  In reply to nbplopes:

                  Since I do not use macOS, I can only rely on rumours of what Finder can do: it seems to be comparable to Windows' file explorer. Now that Apple has declared to unify ARM experience on their devices within 2 years, it is a reasonable hope that Finder finds its way to iPadOS within 2 years from now. This is not a statement of "8 years behind". It is an expression of hope of iPadOS possibly getting useful file management within 2 years.

                  I have followed reports on and experienced local file management and local file transfer on i(Pad)OS so far: From 2007 to 2020, it has been terrible to only partially usable. Given this slow speed of improvement, it is very optimistic to hope Apple reaching Windows / Linux quality of file management by iPadOS and its own apps within another 10 years from now on. Such would require greater improvement during the following 10 years than during the previous 13 years. Altogether, if Apple should fix it within the next 10 years, its delay in proper file management would be 23 years.

                  A dedicated teenager programmer could do it alone within 1 year if given the specifications of code interfaces. That Apple needs decades is a consequence of their mindset of preferring Walled Garden, experience from Apple to Apple devices, having to be different from competing OSs, mainstream consumer usage to general use of both consumers and creators, and the false belief that easy naive use must dominate or inhibit powerful use.

  2. BigM72

    The A-Z list of apps in iOS14 that you get as part of the all apps view (I think when you click the search bar) is VERY similar to Windows Phone right down to the minimal AZ list on the right.

  3. mattbg

    I can kind of understand why they did what they did with the "all apps" thing.


    More often than not I recognize an app in iOS by its icon, not what the app is actually called. The dock doesn't expose the name, and the text is so relatively small on the other icons.


    I don't think I've ever scrolled through the Windows 10 "all apps" list because... well, developers sometimes don't label an icon the way I think they will, and I don't know if they've put their company name in front of it (i.e. "Word" or "Microsoft Word") which affects whether it falls under 'M' or 'W'. I either use search or the "Recently Installed" group if it's something I just installed.


    Willing to give it a chance, anyway... I have not used Android significantly and I'm just glad they added something, so that's where I'm coming from.

  4. lwetzel

    How stable does iOS14 seem. I would like to get that kind of layout but wondering what havoc the rest might cause

  5. Lauren Glenn

    It's a step forward but I bet everything is still sandboxed to where I can't have an app like Dropsync to sync files to my phone while it's charging overnight. Things like my music library (w/ lossless audio), or some videos, etc. Maybe use Plex and have it let me watch videos using another video player....


    A step forward but I still see iOS as someone cleaning up my phone for me and restricting what I can do on it like a child...... I want to be able to export a file to a Downloads folder and open it on another app without having to jump through a lot of hoops.


    But this has peaked my interest a bit to where I might look at iOS again... but let's see how many builds it takes to shake out the bugs like those that annoyed users of iOS 13 for a while.

    • Jorge Garcia

      In reply to alissa914:

      I agree 100%. Doesn't mater how cute and nice one looks, and how well it talks to and works with its brethren, an iPhone first and foremost belongs to Apple. They don't even perform any functions UNTIL you put in your Apple ID. No thanks. I'll stick to android, warts and all. Android devices (for now) work EXACTLY like the computers they are.

  6. ponsaelius

    A main home screen, swipe to the right to get an a to z list of apps, widgets that look like tiles. Welcome back WindowsPhone.

  7. lezmaka

    Well if you want more things to add to the list that don't make sense, apparently the iPad doesn't let you mix widgets with app icons. Hopefully that's just because it's only the first beta, but I'm not very optimistic.

  8. nbplopes

    Let me try to explain somethings inexplicable for some. At least the way I see it.


    Most people want to pick the smartphone ... do something productive ... and go. That is the philosophy I believe of iPhone UX.


    Some people that like to waste time putting their icons freely on the canvas, much like a PC desktop, change launchers, icons sets so on and so forth may not like it. But that is just it, a preference. More options does not necessarily mean better as it increases complexity. Complexity should be only increased if there are significant gains.


    Design its about making decisions. If designers don’t want to make decisions that they don’t design. Instead put everything as an option and let the users design their own system as much as possible. That is why devs don’t usually make good designers. That is basically what MS and Google do ... with some exceptions. But most users don’t really have the time to be UX behaviordesigners by going through all the available options to change things as they may like for a moment, only than to change .... and finally get bored and let it in default a actual have time to do some actual productivity work.


    On another note, it’s understandable that most people in Windows got to notice Widgets on Windows 8. But the fact is that Vista (2006) already used widgets. It was called gadgets. Why MS called the gadgets rather than widgets? Because previously Apple coined the term in 2005 with macOS Tiger. Previously MS even had something that was mostly unworkable called Active Desktop ...


    For the more curious: https://youtu.be/mplfcUy2SyY


    The way widgets are selected and put on the display are way more inline with macOS dashboard than Windows 10 Tiles. Now the difference is that widgets snap into a grid (auto arrange) while in macOS dashboard they could be positioned freely. Which makes a lot more sense on a Smartphone than on a desktop OS.


    On the application list ... the auto categorization is for me great. Spending time organizing stuff in “folders” on a smartphone for me never made much sense to me. I just pickup the phone to execute some tasks quickly ... and spend most time reading, watching and communicating than anything else. In fact most of the time if the app is not in the main screen, apps that do not use that much, usually i just search to launch with one hand.


    Personally never had much use for widgets. Honestly, I mostly ignore them. It has been like that since I first used them in tiger, but than in vista ... windows 10 .... I suspect I’ll ignore them now also.


    I will probably delete all app “pages” but one , and use the app library for starters. Eventually organize a page per activity core activities and see if it works for me ... otherwise ... ignore widgets again. In my case (Overview, To do, To chat, To read, To care).


    PS: I’m sure someone will come up with a blank space widget just for Thurrott :)

  9. brendan_rutledge

    IMO, the best new feature in the pinned conversations in messages.

  10. docpaul

    We just need someone to make a widget that is an invisible space-taker-upper.

  11. robincapper

    Looks at still perfectly useable, app gap aside, Nokia 1520 which had an OS with all this (and more) and weeps...

  12. craisin

    I am still happily using my HP Elite x3 (wonderful mobile) running under W10 (albeit v. 1709). It does everything I want and I don't perform any website logon or respond to email on it, so why would I want to change? The only downside is that there are not many apps written now for Windows mobile.

    I can, however, use those apps which can run on a windows desktop and are available from a website by downloading via the Edge browser (which is thankfully OK on my Windows phone). Live tiles are keeping me with Windows mobile. :-)

  13. gabbrunner

    I've always thought that the reason the icons flow from left to right, top to bottom is so that an iPhone is immediately recognizable. All iPhone screens looks the same and different from Android. You see one on TV and you know its an iPhone. Does anyone else think that's the reason for it?

  14. sscywong

    What Apple is still inexplicably not doing is letting users arrange individual icons anywhere on-screen


    In Windows Phone 7 when Live Tiles was first introduced this was also the case. Wait till iOS 15 or 16, like Windows Phone 10 Apple will allow you to leave some blanks on the springboard

  15. SyncMe

    On the App Library screen just tap and hold on the screen and pull down. This gives you an alphabetical list of all your apps.

  16. Elindalyne

    The big question I have... Do web push notifications work?

  17. red.radar

    I am glad you highlighted the point about icons always being top left. It’s frustrating that I can’t place them where I want. especially since phones have become taller



  18. pgiftos

    I'm considering a switch to iPhone but am hesitant to due so. Lets see how IOS 14 is.

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