Apple Announces New MacBook Pros, M1 Pro and M1 Max Chipsets
- Paul Thurrott
- Oct 18, 2021
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178
At a virtual event today, Apple announced new 14- and 16-inch MacBook Pro models with M1 Pro and M1 Max chipsets. There were no major surprises, unless of course you were hoping that the rumor about them having an iPhone-like notch was mistaken. It was not.
“M1 has transformed our most popular systems with incredible performance, custom technologies, and industry-leading power efficiency. Apple senior vice president Johny Srouji said. “No one has ever applied a system-on-a-chip design to a pro system until today with M1 Pro and M1 Max. With massive gains in CPU and GPU performance, up to six times the memory bandwidth, a new media engine with ProRes accelerators, and other advanced technologies, M1 Pro and M1 Max take Apple silicon even further, and are unlike anything else in a pro notebook.”
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There are two new MacBook Pro models, which Apple is now selling alongside the M1-based MacBook Air and (entry-level) MacBook Pro, and they are about as expensive as you’d imagine. The 14-inch MacBook Pro, with its 8-core M1 Pro chipset, starts at $1999 in a configuration with 16 GB of RAM and 512 GB of SSD storage, and the 16-inch MacBook Pro, with its 10-core M1 Pro chipset, starts at $2499 for the same configuration.
Both models can be upgraded with multiple levels of CPU, RAM, and storage upgrades—they support up to 64 GB of RAM and 8 TB (!) of storage—and the 16-inch version can be outfitted with even more powerful M1 Max chipsets too. A fully-configured 16-inch MacBook Pro 16 with 64 GB of RAM, 8 TB of storage, and the M1 Max costs $6099.
Apple also announced a new version of its AirPods wireless earbuds that cost $50 more than their predecessors and add spatial audio capabilities, improved sound and battery, and a MagSafe-compatible charging case. They cost $179. And for those who can’t get enough of Apple’s music products, the firm is now offering its $99 HomePod mini in a few new colors and is offering a less expensive Apple Music voice-only plan for $4.99 per month that only works via Siri voice commands.
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Conversation 178 comments
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waethorn
Log in to Reply<p>Is it just me or did the presenters look like their heads were shot separately and digitally stitched on with a 3D modeller like one of those Old Spice commercials? Go back and watch it, especially with Craig and that Johnny guy with the accent and tell me I’m wrong.</p>
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Brett Barbier
Log in to Reply<p>You’re wrong. </p>
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waethorn
Log in to Reply<p>Then you don’t have an eye for special effects.</p>
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usman
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>I was thinking the same thing. That Craig scene was definitely a virtual set, they could have done the same thing Nvidia did with the Jensen keynote.</p>
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will
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>While we can have our thoughts on the notch (I think it is setting things up for faceID in the future), can we agree the M1 chips are damn impressive, and this is just the first version of chips. I don’t think Intel has anything close to this, even in the next couple of years.</p>
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bluvg
Log in to Reply<p>Intel anticipates catching and surpassing Apple in 2024/2025. Yes, Apple will advance as well (Intel obviously knows this), but they can only play the RAM-on-chip card once. </p><p><br></p><p>I’m surprised the battery life isn’t higher, though. Impressive, but not as big a gap as I expected.</p>
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Donte
Log in to Reply<p>"but they can only play the RAM-on-chip card once"</p><p><br></p><p>3rd time now, M1, M1 Pro and M1 Max. Each time pulling further and further away from Intel. Intel has a lot of money, not Apple money but enough to get back in the game. I wish them the best of luck. I do not have a lot of faith they will do it.</p><p><br></p><p>That said our VMware hosts at work are in the recycle process (5 years old) and we are buying 100% EPYC based servers this time around, replacing an Intel setup. We shall see how Intel is doing 5 years from now.</p>
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bluvg
Log in to Reply<p>No–it’s one time for the whole M series. RAM-on-chip is the different tech, but the implementation of that tech has been used in multiple models. Intel and AMD can both implement the same tech if they choose (AMD’s V-Cache is the same thing, except it tops out at 192 MB L3, whereas <em>all</em> RAM is essentially L3 with the M series).</p><p><br></p><p>One wildcard is ARM vs. x86, but even there, both Intel and AMD have shown openness to ditching x86 if necessary. </p>
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digiguy
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>I am not as optimistic as you seem to be when it comes to the time it takes to implement this in their future chips…. And in the meantime Apple can pull other tricks out of their hats and/or many professionals might have moved to Macs… And moving them back to Windows is gonna take more than just slightly overtaking Apple….</p>
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bluvg
Log in to Reply<p>I’m not saying Intel or AMD will move to the same RAM-on-chip model Apple has, though AMD is already dramatically increasing their L3 cache in future chips. The tradeoff of the model is limited options for RAM–it’s either on chip or it’s not, there are no DIMMs to populate as desired. </p><p><br></p><p>I am saying that RAM-on-chip <em>the main</em> reason for the better performance. There’s no mysterious advantage Apple has that AMD, Intel, and others can’t also have (including TSMC’s manufacturing!). As far as "tricks," you can only get the speed benefits of moving from memory bus to on-die <em>once</em>. You can improve on-die throughput and dedicate silicon to certain functions, but Apple and others can gain that orders-of-magnitude memory throughput/latency architecture boost only one time.</p>
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will
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>I would say it is a pretty impressive gap when you consider almost anything from Intel that would get close to that battery would not have a dGPU running. It would be integrated graphics. So while there might be something that can get close to the battery life, it would not be close in performance for that same duration.</p>
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bluvg
Log in to Reply<p>The dGPU vs. iGPU is a good point, although what I trying to say was that I was expecting the battery life gap between Intel and the M1 Pro/Max to be greater given the Intel v. M1 gap.</p>
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Oreo
Log in to Reply<p>The distinction between integrated and discrete GPU is no longer important. In the past, integrated graphics with shared memory meant slow graphics, and discrete graphics meant fast graphics. That’s no longer true. Consoles like the PS5 and the latest XBox are using “integrated graphics” with shared memory. Architecture-wise, that’s close to what Apple is doing, and I don’t think anyone called the GPUs in the current consoles slow. </p><p><br></p><p>Shared memory here means that you have a lot, lot more memory bandwidth than current Intel CPUs. Intel’s latest *desktop* chip, Rocketlake, has 50 GB/s, the M1 Pro 200 GB/s, the M1 Max 400 GB/s. Instead, it is comparable to desktop higher-end graphics cards like nVidia’s RTX 3070 that has 448 GB/s (and a TDP of 220 W). </p><p><br></p><p>As you can see, Apple is mostly limited by power, because doubling the number of GPU cores will double the power consumed by the GPU. </p>
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bluvg
Log in to Reply<p>There is a big difference between iGPU in Apple’s case than in Intel’s case currently, though: the shared memory for Apple is literally on the same SoC–no trip to DIMMs (of whatever speed) required. Intel’s iGPU has to take that long walk. Consoles are a different story, with a mix of things going on.</p><p><br></p><p>RAM-on-chip is also why the CPU numbers are so much higher. </p>
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Oreo
Log in to Reply<p>Yeah, that’s what I said: the distinction is no longer integrated vs. discrete, but fast vs. slow. For a long time, integrated meant slow and discrete = fast. </p>
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bkkcanuck
Log in to Reply<p>No, Apple’s memory is not on the SoC… it is on package… Still means lower latency and in this case higher bandwidth than dual slotted modules etc. </p>
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igor engelen
Log in to Reply<p>I’m afraid they’ve been too lazy/comfortable in the position they had and are now frantically searching for their running shoes hoping they can still catch up.</p>
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SvenJ
Log in to Reply<p>Time to switch out of the Tevas? ;)</p>
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bluvg
Log in to Reply<p>There is an element of complacency, but that’s not the whole picture. Itanium was a major setback that most forget today. They also made some bad bets in the process node space. </p>
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Greg Green
Log in to Reply<p>Intel anticipated having a discrete gaming graphics card by 2020. The y missed by a year and counting.</p><p><br></p><p>the difference between intel and apple is stunning. Intel announced in June 2018 discrete gaming gpus by 2020. We’re still waiting for any discrete card, let alone a gaming card.</p><p><br></p><p>apple announced in June 2020 they were breaking with intel. In October they announced their M1 chip and in April 2021 they were delivering M1 products. Now they’re on the second gen, or at least 1+ gen cpu.</p><p><br></p><p>even with their first chip apple had integrated graphics that were 5x faster than intels integrated graphics.</p>
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waethorn
Log in to Reply<p>So the Mac Pro and iMac Pro aren’t being used by creators anymore? Or are they just not putting out those Intel models at all like they said they would during last years M1 launch, chip shortages and all.</p>
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curtisspendlove
Log in to Reply<p>They gave themselves 2 years. I expect to see the desktops updated early next year. Probably with an updated Mac Pro. </p><p><br></p><p>iMac, Mac Mini, and Mac Pro (Mini). </p><p><br></p><p>Whther they will have M1Pro and M1 Max or an M2 Pro / Max will be interesting to see. </p>
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bkkcanuck
Log in to Reply<p>I just don’t know what they have left to call the Jade2C and Jade4C (2 times the M1 Max and 4 times the M1 Max)… M1 what? Maybe they will give those processors a different prefix (W for workstation is taken already)… Maybe X1 Pro and X1 Max (X for Extreme)… na, but once Pro and Max – what is greater than Max …</p>
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digiguy
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>M1 Extreme</p>
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curtisspendlove
Log in to Reply<p>Unfortunately, it might end up being Pro Max. ;)</p>
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Donte
Log in to Reply<p>So the 24inch iMac uses the M1 with its limits of 16gigs of RAM. So does the Macbook Air, 13inch Macbook Pro and Mini.</p><p><br></p><p>It is easy to surmise that these new M1 Pro/Max chips will power not only these Macbooks but the higher end Mac Mini (currently Intel) and some 27 or 32inch iMac’s/iMac Pro’s.</p><p><br></p><p>Apple said it would take two years. I bet next year the release the replacement for the Mac Pro, which will be even more powerful chips.</p><p><br></p><p>One thing is for certain, the video editing market will gravitate back to the Mac with the power of these chips. I believe all major video editing software has now been ported.</p>
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bluvg
Log in to Reply<p>Agreed, these are stellar video editing machines, which is quite a sizeable market these days.</p>
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shameer_mulji
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>Not just video apps. Many creative professional apps are being have or in the process of being ported. These machines will be great for that crowd.</p>
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Donte
Log in to Reply<p>Agreed, it will help any software that is ported. </p><p><br></p><p>That said, in 2-4 weeks at the most there will be 20+ YouTube videos showing a comparison between Adobe Premiere, Davinci Resolve or some other video rendering application, rendering some 4K/8K video that are "computer killers" hammering a computer for the time it takes to complete these type of tasks.</p><p><br></p><p>Since both of those apps have been ported you can easily make a great test between a Macbook Pro with a M1, M1 Pro, M1 Max compared to Windows Laptops at whatever level. There will be differences and not some non real world CPU benchmark that spits out a number that is meaningless, but real world time saved. If that number is big enough its easy for people to see how it would help a business model if you can get more done in less time.</p><p><br></p><p>There will be other numbers of less significance as well, like how much power was used, how hot the device got or how loud the fans were. All good info, but if you are rendering video for a living, time to completion matters most. Leave the room of the computer is too loud.</p>
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igor engelen
Log in to Reply<p>And let’s not forget that Apple joined the Blender (open source 3D creation tool) development fund. They’re certainly trying to get good software optimised for their platform.</p>
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shameer_mulji
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>When Apple began the transition, they mentioned they will transition the entire lineup in 2 years. We’re halfway into that transition. Per the rumor mill, there’s a redesigned MBA, a pro level iMac and a new redesigned Mac Pro coming out next year some time.</p>
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curtisspendlove
Log in to Reply<p>I’m extremely impressed with these new MacBooks and it makes me very curious to see what they will do for their desktop Macs. </p><p><br></p><p>I don’t see any of them as necessary upgrades over an M1 MacBook Air (for my personal needs). </p><p><br></p><p>But these things will be amazing for plenty of people. </p><p><br></p><p>Personally, I want to see what a Mac Mini with an M1 Max SoC can do. </p><p><br></p><p>And the notch is a side note for me. I got used to it very fast on the phone. I’m sure it won’t bother me on a laptop. :: shrug ::</p>
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Donte
Log in to Reply<p>Just ordered 6 of them off of the Apple business site, which is hammered.. 6 intel Macbooks will be retired, all 15inch, replaced with 3-14inch and 3 – 16inch.</p>
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curtisspendlove
Log in to Reply<p>Yup. I would be upgrading business machines like crazy. </p><p><br></p><p>Just not my personal ones yet. </p>
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bluvg
Log in to Reply<p>Agreed, really would love to see these CPUs in a Mini. The price for the 16" is very high as expected, although similarly-configured PCs would be in the same territory.</p>
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F4IL
Log in to Reply<p>I never perceived the value of the MacMini as anything but a cheap Mac. In our offices all I see is Macbooks connected to external displays. Unlike a laptop, it is certainly cheaper but it’s not a complete system. Even with the (M1) MacbookAir you can easily outclass most similarly priced desktops without sacrificing on either power or portability by pairing it to an external display.</p><p><br></p><p>As for the new laptops, those are prosumer level products that are not all that interesting to most consumers. The only people I see using them (in my mediate) circle are developers who use them to do their jobs. They are a curiosity to enthusiasts, especially considering there is no competition at their respective price points, but even they couldn’t justify spending the admission fee.</p>
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wright_is
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>But why waste money on batteries and a screen, when it will never be moved and is connected to a big external display? </p>
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Jeffsters
Log in to Reply<p>Agreed! I have Mac Mini’s that are rendering etc., will never go anywhere, and need a large monitor. A keyboard and screen are added expense that’s not needed. Then throw in the battery deterioration inherent in an always plugged in machine and you see the Mini still has a market. It’s small but still I suspect VERY profitable and is an important part of a larger eco-system and product-lineup. </p>
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F4IL
Log in to Reply<p>Of course, if you never plan to use the laptop as a portable device then it is not as cost effective as a stationary, desktop system.</p>
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lvthunder
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>One use case for them is in video production where you need multiple computers to do specific tasks.</p>
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curtisspendlove
Log in to Reply<p><em style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">I never perceived the value of the MacMini as anything but a cheap Mac.</em></p><p><br></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">I find it amusing when I walk into a place where they have a bunch of laptops closed and hooked up to external monitors. </span></p><p><br></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">I assume those laptops get used elsewhere as laptops. So it totally depends on what you want to do with the system. </span></p><p><br></p><p>You tend to pay a “laptop tax” (more expensive for the same performance” due mostly to thermals). </p><p><br></p><p>I also don’t like systems with built-in screens (since I don’t like to lug the whole thing in if part of it breaks). </p><p><br></p><p>So I like a moderately performant laptop (which is far cheaper than a beastly laptop that can dock and serve as a desktop) which I can use mobile or docked for most workloads. </p><p><br></p><p>And then I like a desktop that can be hooked up to the same monitors and input as the laptop dock. </p><p><br></p><p>A Mac Mini has been perfect for this use case over time. </p>
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F4IL
Log in to Reply<p>Yeah, it certainly depends on workplace policy. At work, almost everyone has a work laptop which they either connect to a display or use as is on their personal workstation. More surprising is the fact that many, usually younger employees, don’t even have a desktop computer at home.</p><p><br></p><p>I do agree with you on the <em>laptop tax</em> but for those of us that require portability it does eventually pay off.</p><p><br></p><p>So far, my understanding is that <span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">consumer level systems are going to be restricted to the base microarchitecture of the M{1,2,…X} and prosumer systems will be getting some PRO/MAX designated optimization on top. It will be interesting to see how they handle hardware upgrades and how thei cherry pick which chips go where going forward.</span></p>
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curtisspendlove
Log in to Reply<p>I concur on laptops. In the pre-Zombie Apocalypse times I was very close to buying a beefy laptop as a primary machine.</p><p><br></p><p>It’s certainly a fine way to go. And makes sense for many businesses and even “prosumers” (ugh, I hate that term). </p><p><br></p><p><em style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">It will be interesting to see how they handle hardware upgrades and how thei cherry pick which chips go where going forward.</em></p><p><br></p><p>One of the most interesting things they’ve done here is push the demarkatuon line between consumer and pro further apart with these. </p><p><br></p><p>The Pro and Max are very much not needed for consumers. And are significant overkill for most people. </p><p><br></p><p>But…MagSafe. </p><p><br></p>
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jim_vernon
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>"<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">I assume those laptops get used elsewhere as laptops. So it totally depends on what you want to do with the system."</span></p><p><br></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Sometimes. Where I work, a department ordered a bunch of Surface tablets and the things never left the docks. The screens also were so small that they were pretty much useless from desk-sitting distance. It was a bizarre choice for their staff.</span></p>
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bkkcanuck
Log in to Reply<p>Also, when I worked for a company that was owned (in the process of merging into) by IBM we use to get computers ordered for the company by skid – so all the computers on the skid were the same… so it did not matter if you were going to use it as a laptop or a desktop … you got a laptop because all the computers were the same (things have probably changed now… but back then there was one standard machine for a specific department/floor/company.</p>
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wright_is
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>Yes, I found myself cussing at the price, to get that performance. But I have always bought high end PCs, although I did buy an i5 laptop last time round. My desktop is a Ryzen 1700, it was useful when I bought it, I was teaching myself Hyper-V and the cores, RAM and multiple drives were what I needed.</p><p><br></p><p>But, in all honesty, even with some photo editing, the Mac mini is probably more than enough for my needs.</p>
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Mike Cramer
Log in to Reply<p>Is this a QAnon theory? Does this mean Oprah murdered Steve Bannon?</p>
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prebengh
Log in to Reply<p>If you compare the 14” Macbook Pro with 16 GB RAM, 512 GB SSD to a Surface Pro 8 13” with the same memory configuration and i7, then the Surface Pro 8 with a keyboard added will be more expensive.</p><p>so Microsoft is just as crazy expensive as Apple. The Macbook will have more ports, bigger display and faster performance (I guess).</p>
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waethorn
Log in to Reply<p>It would probably make more sense to compare the Surface Laptop to a MacBook since the MacBook is not a tablet. In any case, the M1 creams ALL of AMD’s laptop chips in the majority of benchmarks and offers superior performance per watt.</p>
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VancouverNinja
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>Still stuck with less features and macOS….</p>
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lvthunder
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>less features? Like what? And the MacOS thing is just a personal preference.</p>
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Jeffsters
Log in to Reply<p>Don’t bother asking…we can all come up with features one or the other lacks in comparison. That’s great competition, the cycle of two competing products that with each release try to differentiate from the other, that’s good for all! In the end that back and forth leap-frog game benefits us all. </p>
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VancouverNinja
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<ol><li>Touchscreen – its 2021 for goodness sake. There is only one reason to not include it , iPad. It is not due to any disadvantage of the capability but down to Apple’s interests.</li><li>Pen capability. Obviously tied to touch but looking at iMacs without it is completely a massive failure in the evolution of macOS. Any creative, or dare I say it, developer needs this. I could never buy an all in one or laptop without it for any of our org. Let alone pay the same cost for a system that was incapable of it. It’s bizarre.</li><li>Overall ease of use – from windows management , file management, screen resolution and automatic external monitor management. I believe if Steve Jobs had not checked out early, he would have not allowed macOS to end up like it is today. He would have evolved it to be much better than it is. </li><li>Gaming – with the new Apple silicon they have killed the ability to run AAA games on it. And with Microsoft Xbox Game Pass for Windows PC the best of the best is available; but not for these new Apple laptops.</li></ol><p><br></p><p>I think the Apple proposition has gotten worse with the newer macOS offerings for the average consumer, not better.</p><p><br></p>
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prebengh
Log in to Reply<p>Maybe you forget that the current M1 Macs could actually run some games through Rosetta, and my guess is that with the new higher performance chips a lot of more games will run</p>
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VancouverNinja
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>Many people do not understand Rosetta, it does not allow an instance of Windows, which would enable the ability to play the games I am referring to. Rather Rosetta allows a translation layer for existing macOS applications to run under the Apple Silicon. It does not enable the playing, or running, of Windows platform software/games. </p>
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Greg Green
<p>You don’t have to understand Rosetta, it just works. Take those blinders off, it’s a big world out here where the rest of us are.</p>
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Oreo
<p>You can of course run x86 Windows on ARM-based Macs, you just have to use Parallels. You just can’t boot into them. Whether this is fast enough for the games you are thinking of, I don’t know. </p>
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bkkcanuck
<p>@Oreo, no you cannot run x86 Windows in Parallels on an Apple Silicon Mac… you can run Windows on ARM only. If any of the companies actually did implement it, it would be horrifically slow (a bare fraction – i.e. in the teen percentages at most)…. Rosetta works for macOS apps since it can see the apps, and translate the code before running anything – and when you are running the app you are effectively running an x86 (unoptimized app). On top of that – all the macOS system calls for graphics or OS functions (the majority of the time is spent in calls like that) you are calling macOS native operating system calls. That is why you would never see one of these companies implement an x86 to ARM translation layer… the Windows is basically a black box to it and it would not be able to translate all the code and apps ahead of time… </p>
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Donte
Log in to Reply<p>It’s 2021 and 98% (or more) of computers in the world do not have touch screen. 95%+ are sold without touch screen. The best "Tablet" experience is the iPad hands down with its "Touch First" OS and app focus, millions of apps. Unlike Windows and the Surface where the touch expeience is still second to the K/M experience and the number of touch focused apps is in the 100’s???</p><p><br></p><p>It’s 2021 and a mid range video card (3070 RTX) is $1100, more than twice the cost of my Xbox Series X. Game Pass works great on my Xbox Series X, which is just as powerful as my gaming PC that collects dust with its 2070 Super and AMD 3700x. Cheating in AAA games is 99% less on the Xbox and I would bet that the vast majority of AAA games are played console. Games like the latest COD and BF 2042 will be overwhelmingly played on consoles.</p><p><br></p><p>Windows is not longer consumer friendly. It exists to run business apps, new versions of apps that have been out for many years or the "PC Master Race" and all that goes with that toxic crowd. New Windows PC software development is at an all time low and decreasing. It does not help that Microsoft keeps changing the prefered SDK’s that it wants developers to use on Windows, which does nothing but push them away to other platforms.</p><p><br></p><p>The ecosystem for Windows/Microsoft outside of Xbox and Office 365 is weak. They do not have a mobile platform, or wearables. They do not have services that run on those missing devices having to rely on third party options like Android, Amazon and Spotify. Things consumers want and get from Apple and Google. Even with the third party options the integration is not as strong as Apple and Google offerings. Hence consumers have moved on from Microsoft/Windows as a consumer platform.</p><p><br></p><p>A consumer could be easily 100% Microsoft free and be super satisfied. A Mac, iPhone, iPad, watch with a PS5 for gaming. Or Google everything, including a Chromebook and a PS5. While I really like my Xbox Series X, I have no doubt the PS5 will double the sales of the XSX/S. I will probably get a PS5 at some point to play exclusives. </p>
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VancouverNinja
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>Oh boy, where to start? </p><p><br></p><p>Let’s address the "<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">It’s 2021 and 98% (or more) of computers in the world do not have touch screen. 95%+ are sold without touch screen." </span></p><p><br></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Can you provide a link to your stats on this please? Every Windows laptop since Windows 8 have come with touchscreens, as do all All-in-ones, the majority of Chromebooks have touchscreens, and there are stand alone touchscreens for Windows Desktops. In 2013 10% of all shipped Windows PCs had touchscreens…I am sure many would love to see your stats showing only 2% of all computers have touchscreens. </span></p><p><br></p><p>"The best "Tablet" experience is the iPad hands down with its "Touch First" OS and app focus, millions of apps. Unlike Windows and the Surface where the touch experience is still second to the K/M experience and the number of touch focused apps is in the 100’s???" </p><p><br></p><p>This I would agree you with prior to the release of Windows 11. Now we have a much better OS for tablets in Windows 11 than iOS. Not only can it run all Windows software and Windows games, but it is soon to run all Android apps and the interface is so much better. This makes Windows 11 tablets capable of offering the largest library of applications, and the best tablet OS for gaming. </p><p><br></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">"It’s 2021 and a mid range video card (3070 RTX) is $1100, more than twice the cost of my Xbox Series X. Game Pass works great on my Xbox Series X, which is just as powerful as my gaming PC that collects dust with its 2070 Super and AMD 3700x. Cheating in AAA games is 99% less on the Xbox and I would bet that the vast majority of AAA games are played console. Games like the latest COD and BF 2042 will be overwhelmingly played on consoles."</span></p><p><br></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Huh?? So you don’t think PC gaming is a thing. Interesting.</span></p><p><br></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">"Windows is not longer consumer friendly. It exists to run business apps, new versions of apps that have been out for many years or the "PC Master Race" and all that goes with that toxic crowd. New Windows PC software development is at an all time low and decreasing. It does not help that Microsoft keeps changing the prefered SDK’s that it wants developers to use on Windows, which does nothing but push them away to other platforms."</span></p><p><br></p><p>This post keeps giving gems. There no comparison to the difference in ease of use between Windows 11 and macOS. Windows is by far easier to use and work with. You are clearly out of your league when it comes to understanding what has been happening in the Microsoft ecosystem. As far as development goes Microsoft is the only house getting it right today. Visual Studio and .NET 6 are simply the best development platforms available today. We are currently recreating all of our websites in Blazor WASM and it is fantastic. </p><p><br></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">"The ecosystem for Windows/Microsoft outside of Xbox and Office 365 is weak. They do not have a mobile platform, or wearables. They do not have services that run on those missing devices having to rely on third party options like Android, Amazon and Spotify. Things consumers want and get from Apple and Google. Even with the third party options the integration is not as strong as Apple and Google offerings. Hence consumers have moved on from Microsoft/Windows as a consumer platform."</span></p><p><br></p><p>Yup gotta luv that you do not understand Windows yet you pontificate heavily about it. Microsoft Windows fully integrates with Android phones. And most recently Samsung (you know the company that sells about 50% more smart phones than Apple annually) has fully integrated deeper on this feature giving up their Cloud storage feature and moving seamlessly to OneDrive. I use this feature daily and love it. There is no advantage to Apple with this at all – in fact Windows now supports the lions share of smart phones as Android’s global market share in 2020 was almost 71% to Apples 28%. So that is a hard smackdown on Apple. All music services work with Windows All smart phone watches work with Windows….</p><p><br></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">"A consumer could be easily 100% Microsoft free and be super satisfied. A Mac, iPhone, iPad, watch with a PS5 for gaming. Or Google everything, including a Chromebook and a PS5. While I really like my Xbox Series X, I have no doubt the PS5 will double the sales of the XSX/S. I will probably get a PS5 at some point to play exclusives."</span></p><p><br></p><p>Lol. Man you are really reaching hard for Apple. The reason Windows is still dominant is for so many reasons that make it the best OS out there. It’s an open platform, it’s simply better designed, consumers and businesses can pick and choose the hardware options that best suit their specific needs and budgets. And, I don’t get you arguing this at all, it is the best platform for gaming. I happen to own all three major consoles, XBOX Series X, Playstation 5, and Nintendo Switch. This gen Microsoft is doing an amazing job its an equal in everyway to Playstation and Gamepass is simply brilliant. I happen to love all three of them for what they offer as they are entertainment systems. Of note Microsoft owns 23 studios now to Playstation’s 17. Its a big deal for gaming content. </p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><br></p>
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rob_segal
Premium Member<p>Every laptop doesn’t come with a touchscreen and even if they did, not everyone uses a touchscreen. </p><p><br></p><p>Windows 11 is not better on tablets than iPadOS. Not even close. Android apps haven’t helped Android tablets all that much and it won’t help Windows. The iPad is by far the best tablet on the market for consumers. Also, the integration between iPhone, iPad, and Mac is unmatched in the industry. That’s a big focus for Apple. </p><p><br></p><p>MacOS is not difficult to use. If you don’t like the UI, that’s fine, but it’s not a difficult to use. It’s quite simple actually, and consistent. If Windows was really easy to use, Microsoft wouldn’t be simplifying the UI. A common complaint about Windows is its complexity.</p>
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jdawgnoonan
<p>Why anyone would think that the desirable state in the modern web first world is a bunch of siloed apps tied to one ecosystem makes no sense to me at all. But it makes perfect sense to people who are all in on the Apple ecosystem. </p>
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Donte
<p>Over 5000 PC’s at my company. We have exactly one Surface user, the head lawyer of the company. His is the only touch screen PC in the company. We have probably over 1K iPad’s though.</p><p><br></p><p>PC gaming is a thing for sure, I did it for years. Now that I do not play any niche games anymore, like DCS I an fine with a $499 console. The same amount I paid for my 2070 Super. Cheating is super, super bad in AAA MP PC games. When it comes to the sales of AAA games consoles dominate and do so for many reasons. In 2021 if you want to buy a gaming PC I feel sorry for you because the cost is crazy. I could probably sell my 2070 Super for more than I bought it for.</p><p><br></p><p>I have seen Windows 10/Android integration. Sure its OK provided you have the right Android phone (Samsung works best) but it is no where close to the Apple integration and from what I have witnessed buggy at times as in things just stop working.</p><p><br></p><p>Windows is dominant because it conqured the business world long ago. I have been supporting AD, Exchange, SMS, Lync, Skype, etc for many years. I manage our companies Azure and O365 subscriptions. AD, GPO’s, GPP’s and Intune make managing our many Windows desktops/laptops a manageable task. That said my whole team users Mac’s. We have access to Windows, via RDP from our Mac’s when we need it (AD users and computer etc). Anything in the cloud just needs a browser.</p><p><br></p><p>Step outside of work and the schools all use Google products. I have 3 kids 20 and younger and none of them own a PC. They use school computers (computer lab), Chromebooks or iPad’s. They live on their phones doing home work on them. My extendid family all moved to iPhone years ago, my parents and sister are Mac users, parents really iPad now.</p><p><br></p><p>Outside of a few friends that still game on PC’s I know no one that buys a Windows computer because they are excited about it. If they are not provided one by their job, they buy one and to go down the cheap route and spend just enough to get by. The "computing" world that used to be owned by Microsoft at work and home is LONG gone. You have whole generations of people not buying a computer at all now. In poor countries hardly anyone has a computer but they have a phone. The smartphone and the cloud changed everything.</p><p><br></p><p>Microsoft = Cloud subscriptions. Azure, Office/Microsoft 365 and Xbox Game Pass. That is their future. They will ride the Windows horse until it dies and it will. From a business perspective and a shareholder perspective there is nothing wrong with that. They are doing very well in those regards.</p>
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curtisspendlove
<p><em style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Lol. Man you are really reaching hard for Apple. The reason Windows is still dominant is for so many reasons that make it the best OS out there.</em></p><p><br></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">The real gem is that you continue to post stuff like this on a site where even the core author agrees that Windows has been declining for consumer uses for years. </span></p><p><br></p><p>And you continue to call Apple fans shills or sheep. </p><p><br></p><p>The irony is strong, my friend. </p>
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wright_is
Premium Member<p>We’ve installed 200 PCs over the last 3 years, all were paired with 24” non-touch screens. Last year, we also installed over 100 laptops, apart from 2 Surface Laptops, none of them had touchscreens, so less than 1% of our PCs have touch, all with Windows 10.</p><p><br></p><p>My work laptop is a ThinkPad T480, no touch, and it spends most of its time docked to a 43” non-touch screen.</p><p><br></p><p>The same goes for my home PC, it is connected to a 43” non-touch display.</p>
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Jeffsters
Log in to Reply<p>You might want to acknowledge Mac OS for over the years making the Windows hodgepodge of icons, UI elements, and behaviors, more glaring when placed in comparison. It was a big effort and I applaud MS for finally doing it. You might not like the Mac OS but at least it’s likely you consistently didn’t like it for the same reasons no matter what you tried to do. For some of us Windows was frustratingly inconsistent. That said, for millions, muscle memory of sorts seemed to fill in the gaps all these years. New users will have an easier time and all will be better served going forward.</p>
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yoshi
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>I’ve been in the market for a laptop and was waiting for today to decide. These new Pros are wayyyyyy out of my price range.</p><p><br></p><p>I guess I’ll have to settle on a "lowly" Air if I want to go with Apple. Which after today’s event, they made it seem like the worst thing to exist.</p>
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shameer_mulji
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>the MBA is still a great value. Upgrade to 16GB RAM and you have great performance for the money.</p>
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johnnych
Log in to Reply<p>Yes, the key to buying in the ARM unified memory world is to always go for at least 16GB of RAM. That way your CPU & GPU have enough to share – it’ll be a great machine either way! 🙂 </p>
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Oreo
Log in to Reply<p>Why? The Air is still as fast as the others in single core workloads, and it has more energy-efficient cores. For most users, the machine will be just as fast. Only if you need more than 4 cores do you see a difference. Yes, also graphics is slower, but it is still a lot faster than what you get in comparable notebooks. Even (light) notebooks with discrete graphics will be at best on par in the GPU department. </p><p><br></p><p>If I had to pay for my Macs out of my own pocket, I’d wait until the next Air and get one. (I’d like to have some more colorful machines.) It is completely silent, because it doesn’t have a fan and has great battery life. (Those are both weaknesses of my 16” MacBook Pro.) The screen will be smaller and probably not feature a 120 Hz panel, which I will miss. And hopefully once the M2 is released, the Air will be offered with a 32 GB RAM option. </p>
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winner
Log in to Reply<p>Small bezels – great</p><p>New CPU chips – damned impressive, best in the industry</p><p>Notch – ugly, we’re gonna shove that notch down your throat!</p>
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johnnych
Log in to Reply<p>So apparently from the rumor sites, the notch is as tall as the new menu bar area (roughly 70 pixels) but the content area on screen is still a full 16:9 resolution (they accounted for the extra pixels up top separately) so it shouldn’t interfere with anything I’m hoping!</p>
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shameer_mulji
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>The content on the screen is still a full 16:10 resolution</p>
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johnnych
Log in to Reply<p>Yup, just placed an order today to finally replace my last Intel machine I have (2017 Macbook Air). It’s my first ARM laptop and I’ve waited nearly 5 years for it (saving up) so I hope it turns out good! I’m all in on ARM now 🙂 </p>
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SvenJ
Log in to Reply<p>They call it Apple Silicon. It differentiates it from the ARM you find running Windows.</p>
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richardbottiglieri
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>I’ve been wanting a 14" MacBook Pro for what feels like forever. I’d like to see how full screen apps look with the notch. I’m guessing that when you go into full screen mode, a black bar appears at the top of the screen on either side of the notch, effectively blacking out the area with the notch. This would give the effect of reducing the vertical screen size, but I’m not sure if there’s another option.</p>
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SvenJ
Log in to Reply<p>That’s what it looked like in dark mode at least. Since Macs typically have a menu bar at the top, the notch seems to disappear into it if it is black. With the notch I would have expected FaceID. Doesn’t appear to be the case though.</p>
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shameer_mulji
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>Key words being not yet.</p>
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bkkcanuck
Log in to Reply<p>They would have to add significant depth to the lid (more than they did) to put the same camera in as in the iPhone or iPad… (or a bit camera bump). I am hoping one of these days they will build into the iMac and the laptop an option for a sort of magsafe snap on camera option that would be full featured. (sort of like their old iSight but just snap on). </p>
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polloloco51
Log in to Reply<p>Apple, a company with enough money to start a small country.</p><p><br></p><p>Makes eye crossing, confounding products like this! </p><p><br></p><p>A MACBOOK WITH A NOTCH</p><p><br></p><p>Just hideous (IMO)! ?</p><p><br></p>
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rmlounsbury
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>I didn’t watch the even but the Siri only Apple Music option was a curious addition. I would imagine that this indicates Apple will be looking into expanding their speaker lineup beyond just the Mini again?</p>
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whistlerpro
Log in to Reply<p>I’d have thought this was more about driving up Siri usage and purchases of HomePod minis. I doubt anyone who could afford a premium HomePod would be buying the voice only Apple Music subscription.</p>
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igor engelen
Log in to Reply<p>If the minis can be linked up into a ‘full surround’ system I might consider them purely for convenience.</p>
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SvenJ
Log in to Reply<p>Just stereo pairs it would seem.</p>
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captobie
Log in to Reply<p>Remember last week when all the tech reviewers were complaining about how expensive the Surface Pro 8 is? How many of them are now going to be telling us what an incredible value the new MacBook Pro’s are?</p>
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VancouverNinja
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Pick up a Surface Device with pen and touchscreen capabilities + Windows 11 is a no brainer compared to these. Picking up one of these new iMacs is like punishing one’s self. I don’t get it at all. </span></p>
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lvthunder
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>That’s not true. The Macs and the Surface machines are both nice machines. It all depends on what you are going to do with it.</p>
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Jeffsters
Log in to Reply<p>Then I’d say, fortunately, you have a product that meets your needs. Enjoy!</p>
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curtisspendlove
Log in to Reply<p><em style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Picking up one of these new iMacs is like punishing one’s self. I don’t get it at all.</em></p><p><br></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">I’ll help you then. The part you’re missing is that not all people think the same thing you do. </span></p><p><br></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">For instance, I’m delighted every minute I’m working on my Macs. And I’m usually content working on Windows machines. But I’m not delighted. </span></p><p><br></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">:: shrug ::</span></p>
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captobie
Log in to Reply<p>I use macOS and Windows side by side every day. Neither “delights” me. They’re machines, tools to get a job done. Each system has its strengths and weaknesses, although I will say my ideal computer might be macOS running on ThinkPad hardware…</p>
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VancouverNinja
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>I can’t ever say I have been delighted by any OS but I can say Windows 11 is the best OS I have ever used. And I can pick from an endless assortment of hardware to run it on. </p>
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jim_vernon
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>"Windows 11 is the best OS I have ever used."</p><p><br></p><p>With a statement like that, I assume you have not actually used any other OS.</p>
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Greg Green
Log in to Reply<p>You’re just digging your obstinate hole deeper. Try taking the blinders off and look beyond the narrow track you’re on.</p><p><br></p><p>and I’m a hardcore windows user. They’re still my primary machines. </p>
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rob_segal
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>Consider this scenario. Next year, Apple refreshes the MacBook Air with M2. Even better performance with the same or even slightly better battery life than the great battery life the current M1 MacBook Air has. Apple will have a thin and light notebook computer that outperforms and outlasts beefy, more expensive Windows workstation-class notebooks. That may not appeal to you, but it could appeal to a lot of consumers. In some ways, the M1 MacBook Air I’m currently using outperforms and lasts much longer on battery than the gaming laptop it replaced.</p>
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VancouverNinja
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>I gather you are not gaming anymore with your M1 MacBook Air? Why would a gamer buy an M1 based laptop since it cannot run any AAA games.</p>
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rob_segal
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>Cloud gaming and more iPad games coming to M1 Macs will make it a better proposition for some gamers. Gamers are not on Macs now. This is something that can improve, not worsen.</p>
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VancouverNinja
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>Sure maybe in 3/5 /7 years. But no serious gamers, or any one that wants to play AAA games, will purchase these rigs. </p>
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bkkcanuck
Log in to Reply<p>I agree with that, it will take a while to see if they start taking more interest in porting games properly… though to be quite honest, it is the casual games that make up the biggest marketshare when it comes to profitability and we will have to see how the unified development platform between the Mac and iPad works in that regard. </p>
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Greg Green
Log in to Reply<p>MacWorld tested the latest intel Mac mini against the M1 Mac mini with Tomb Raider. Intel did 6 fps and the M1 did 30 fps. Not great by desktop or gaming laptops, but on intel the game was unplayable, on the M1 it was playable.</p><p><br></p><p>apple has set the new standard for SFFs with their entry level chip. Now apple pulls even farther away from intel.</p>
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Greg Green
Log in to Reply<p>If you can’t see the stunning power performance advantage apple has in slim laptops and otero small form factors, you’re deliberately not paying attention.</p><p><br></p><p>intel offered noisy fans, hot parts and throttling. Apple doesn’t even seem to have fans in some of this products. </p>
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Jeffsters
Log in to Reply<p>You have the elements of your answer in your question. Price vs. Value. Do either the Surface, or new MBP, provide a greater value commensurate with its higher price compared to existing like products? The reviewers and pundits will give their 3-cents customers will ultimately make a decision based upon their needs and use cases. The market, as always, will decide.</p>
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shameer_mulji
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>The SP8 and these new MBP don’t compete with one another. The Surface Laptop Studio is a better comparison wit these devices.</p>
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rob_segal
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>Surface Laptop Studio may not perform better and it doesn’t last as long as the M1 MacBook Air, much less these new MacBook Pros. I haven’t compared my M1 MacBook Air to the Laptop Studio yet, but it did outperform a more powerful gaming laptop in some situations.</p>
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nbplopes
Log in to Reply<p>I think you should have a look at the DELL XPS <strong>OLEDs</strong> 13 and 15 and than reevaluate your assessment.</p>
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VancouverNinja
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>Fair enough; your point highlights another reason Windows is the superior platform. Nothing beats having options.</p>
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behindmyscreen
Log in to Reply<p>The only option Apple doesn’t offer is low end macs. Mid-tier and up are all offered and are not overpriced for their tiers.</p>
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rob_segal
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>For the average user, M1 vs Intel or AMD won’t matter nearly as much than Mac vs Windows, if it matters at all. However, for professionals, this is very enticing. The M1 chip in the MacBook Air is already impressive for the price and mobility. For example, building my front-end web apps using npm is faster on the M1 MacBook Air than the gaming laptop it replaced. The average user won’t need that.</p><p><br></p><p>Regarding the notch, it looks a little jarring because I’m not used to seeing that on a laptop. There are small webcams in thin top bezels, but those usually look pretty bad. I don’t recall seeing a really good 1080p webcam in a thin top bezel. Microsoft has 1080p webcams on some of their Surface device, but those look like they have larger top bezels than these new MacBooks. </p><p><br></p><p>Most people and applications will not max this hardware, but there are lessons Intel and AMD can learn from this. Targeting benchmarks is not nearly as beneficial as optimizing for certain workloads. Example, continuing improving battery life while playing back video, or burst for workloads like compiling code. Improve performance and battery life while editing or exporting videos. High efficiency cores for editing documents. Make specific tasks better. Continue improving Iris Xe graphics for photo and video editing.</p><p><br></p><p>M1 Pro and M1 Max is not the biggest leap in computing history, but it is impressive. For professionals, it might be the best option. Intel PC’s have really options, too. The XPS 15 is still a powerhouse. Surface Laptop Studio is still unique. Chip competition is a good thing for everyone.</p>
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shameer_mulji
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>"<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">M1 Pro and M1 Max is not the biggest leap in computing history"</span></p><p><br></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Depends on how you define biggest leap. If you define it in terms of RAW power, then probably not. But if you define it in terms of performance per watt, then it’s a massive leap. </span></p>
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bkkcanuck
Log in to Reply<p>I am not sure I would agree with you on that (assuming my calculations are accurate). From their multiple and about what I figured before they announced it based on existing thermal headroom, the core reconfiguration the CPU performance could come in around the 16 core Mac Pro 2019… The memory bandwidth of 400GB/s (probably only get that if you max out the memory on the M1 Max) is more than the M1 (which I think came in around 68 GB/s (still topping out Intel Desktop CPUs of the last few years by a bit… (probably equivalent to 8+ channel DIMMs — probably more). The GPU will outperform my eGPU Vega 64 by at least 60% (probably more when it comes to real work)… not the top raw power, but when mixed together – quite impressive for what is not a discrete GPU… I have not heard of any laptop coming close to this SSD for performance. Of course we have to wait for real world usage, but this is quite a huge jump generation to generation… I was planning on waiting for the Mac Pro Mini, but I am seriously considering buying the 14" model (maxed on memory and SoC with maybe 1TB of SSD) – not cheap… but it will probably keep me happy for quite some time.</p>
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Oreo
Log in to Reply<p>I beg to differ: battery life is something *every* user, including non-technical users feel. So the increased efficiency makes a big difference. The new 16” has up to 21 hours of battery life, I think. My current Intel-based 16” has 4–5-ish hours. </p>
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bkkcanuck
Log in to Reply<p>I agree, though I have to say that the vast majority of potential users – the MacBook Air/iMac 24" are more than sufficient. These machines are for people that need either more IO, more memory, more storage or more power (a very niche market). Simply put, Apple is slowly putting their standard bearers into place for home/entry, professional, and workstation level professional markets… which will be very hard to compete against… but the vast majority of users will be in the home/entry level market and I expect that Apple will gain marketshare over the next few years while other computer makers try to find their answer to ‘Apple silicon’. 5 years ago, I was concerned with the malaise that Apple seemed to be in… today… I am ecstatic…. </p>
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dmclaurin
Log in to Reply<p>Yup! 20+ hour battery life…but for $6K dollars? I mean…I could probably buy a whole set of Power banks and not pay this</p>
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curtisspendlove
Log in to Reply<p>These machines are certainly premium devices, but be honest.</p><p><br></p><p>They aren’t for standard consumers. They are for businesses and professionals (who are most likely earning money back from their systems). </p><p><br></p><p>Even so, this $6000 bullcrap is an intentional inflation. The base 14” (which has amazing battery life too) is $2000 and the 16” is $2500. Still a lot, but nowhere near $6000. </p><p><br></p><p>And for all the whiners about the cost, shall I link to Paul’s article about the new Surface line?</p><p><br></p><p>Good machines are worth good money.</p>
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Oreo
Log in to Reply<p>These are high-end machines. The MacBook Air is a cheaper alternative that still has plenty of power and very, very good battery life. </p>
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wright_is
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>Yes, but after a certain point, it is academic for most users. If it can comfortably survive a working day, something my 2016 HP Spectre X360 could do, lasting much longer doesn’t really make much difference.</p><p><br></p><p>It is only users who are going to be away from a power point for a couple of days that need the extra battery life.</p><p><br></p><p>Having that buffer is nice for the average user, but probably rarely necessary. I think my laptop has used the batteries for maybe 8 hours in total in the last 3 years.</p>
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Oreo
Log in to Reply<p>Except that this kind of battery life we are talking about here is not academic. E. g. when I (used to) frequently fly long distances with travel times ranging from 15–35 hours, I’d need 13+ hours of battery life in real world conditions. My old 13” MacBook Pro would get about 13 hours when the battery was new, I closed all browser tabs, dimmed the screen and used mostly my text editor. But if I edited photos and the like, battery life was much lower. </p><p><br></p><p>I agree, there is a ceiling, but 17–20 hours in synthetic benchmarks and 10 hours when you push the machine a bit harder is exactly where a lot of people can still benefit. Even if you say “it’s too much”, sure, then Apple has the option of making the machine lighter. Notably, the 14” Pro has a larger battery than the 13” Pro, so they made the conscious decision of maximizing battery life. But they need not make the same tradeoff with the next-gen Air. </p>
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jwpear
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>Well, here we are. We got the super slim bezels all tech writers wanted. To achieve that, we get a notch on a laptop. I’d rather have "fat" bezels than a notch. </p><p><br></p><p>You know all the PC manufacturers will be falling all over themselves to copy this. God help us!</p>
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Donte
Log in to Reply<p>The notch is on the menu bar in the middle. Its useless space, now used. It does not protrude into the desktop area.</p>
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wright_is
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>I’d still prefer to have it above then screen, or even no camera at all. I have used the camera in my ThinkPad for maybe an hour over 3 years, I mainly use an external camera mounted on my desktop monitor.</p><p><br></p><p>In fact, I think around 80% of our laptop users have an external webcam.</p>
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VancouverNinja
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>Doubt that. PC manufactures don’t look to Apple for their future, they look to Microsoft and their Surface Devices. The notch is simply stupid. My Surface Studio laptop, nor any of the other Surface devices, need a notch and it has a fabulous webcam and Windows Hello. It logs me in instantly from an instant on. </p>
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nbplopes
Log in to Reply<p>Humm. One can easily argue that the preferences of having a notch from left to right just because that is what people are used to is stupider.</p>
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VancouverNinja
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>It’s not needed. If you prefer we can just refer to it as a very poor design.</p>
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nbplopes
Log in to Reply<p>What are the constraints of such a design?</p>
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VancouverNinja
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>Really? The "constraints"? It is <span style="color: rgb(17, 17, 17);">aesthetically</span> displeasing to look at. As simple as that. You stare at your screen to use the device…it is a poor implementation of the technology. </p>
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txag
Log in to Reply<p>You spend a lot of time here bashing Apple. I hope you get paid well for it.</p>
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nbplopes
Log in to Reply<p>That would be silly considering that this only make sense in maxOS due to existence of a permanent menu bar. Apple is just putting a camera in the center of it, using the dead space to push the bar up. The result is that it increases the over all desktop real state without compromising the quality of the cameras.</p>
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2ilent8cho
Log in to Reply<p>At first i was against the notch, but then i realised they have not put a notch in the display, they have put extra display into the bezel which created a notch. So effectively the menu bar has been moved up 1cm into a new area that never existed before. When you go full screen it won’t go into the notch area it will be below it. So i kinda like the idea now. </p><p><br></p><p><br></p>
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wright_is
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>This is true, which is why it doesn’t bother me one way or the other, but I am waiting to see how it works with full screen apps that don’t display the menu bar, before I make my final verdict.</p>
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wright_is
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>Probably still better than Huawei’s nose-cam.</p>
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jchampeau
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>Well, this slew of comments definitely did <em>not</em> disappoint. ;)</p>
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Jeffsters
Log in to Reply<p>Never stops amazing me how so many non-Apple users can get so crazed about anything Apple that’s posted. Why they feel compelled to comment I do not know. I think I can count on one hand the number of pure Windows articles I’ve commented on simply because I’m not a customer, my opinion isn’t an informed one, and frankly I don’t have time enough in my day to keep on all things Apple let alone drop bombs elsewhere. I’ve never understood it. </p>
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blue77star
Log in to Reply<p>$6000 of non sense. For $6000, imagine PC you can have with Nvidia 3090 in it.</p>
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bkkcanuck
Log in to Reply<p>Bad faith pricing… you are talking about adding an 8TB SSD, 64GB of memory, and totally maxing out all options. When people price things in bad faith to make their argument — it means their argument is very weak.</p>
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digiguy
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>100% agree</p>
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blue77star
Log in to Reply<p>Yes like I would totally max my PC or maybe that’s not the option in this case. Regardless, this is waste of money, would not even know what to do with this Mac meaning useless for what I do.</p>
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pecosbob04
Log in to Reply<p>"<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">useless for what I do." </span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><span class="ql-cursor"></span>So what is it you do besides posting on this site I mean? Gaming? Seriously what is it your Custom built Windows device does that the </span>MacBook Pro can’t?</p><p><br></p>
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rob_segal
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>For a laptop, these new MacBook Pros are better than a laptop equipped with a 3090. The performance per watt on this hardware and software optimized system is something Windows PC can’t match blow for blow. Yes, if you’re a PC gamer, you’re not going to like a $6000 MacBook, but let’s be honest, if you’re a PC gamer, chances are you’re using Windows, not macOS. 21 hours of video playback on a workstation-plus class laptop is unmatched. Every one of those hours and every ounce of that power may not be needed for the vast majority of people, but for those with really demanding workloads, they won’t do better than these MacBook Pros.</p>
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jaboonday
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">"performance per watt" must be part of Apple’s marketing blitz with this announcement, because I’ve read this phrase more today than I’ve ever read in my previous 15000+ days of life…</span></p>
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digiguy
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>because that’s revolutionary in laptops and one of the most important thing for any device with a battery</p>
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Greg Green
Log in to Reply<p>Intel failed at it, that’s why they never used it in their advertising. The M1 series has set a new standard in power usage. No more laptop warmers/burners, no noisy fans, no throttling; all features of intel trying to put their chips in ultra thin devices.</p>
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wright_is
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>It has been the line measurement for a while now, at least in the reviews I generally read. Especially with electricity prises rising sharply at the moment, over 30% in the last couple of months.</p><p><br></p><p>I am seriously looking at a Mac mini to replace my Ryzen desktop, purely based on performance per watt.</p>
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Oreo
Log in to Reply<p>I think you are a bit late to the party. When Apple switched to *Intel* in 2005, their stated reason was performance-per-Watt. Back then Intel had the best cpu cores when they lucked out with their Plan B, initially meant as low-end solution that was the Pentium M and became the Core line. Intel’s lackluster performance-per-Watt has been a topic for many years, and one of the reasons, although not the only one, is that their 10 nm and 7 nm processes were postponed again and again. But also architecturally, Intel is behind, and they are pushing MHz to stay competitive. </p><p><br></p><p>Changes of 70 % in efficiency or so within one generation are exceedingly rare. So I think the focus on efficiency is entirely justified. </p>
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curtisspendlove
Log in to Reply<p>They claim the big GPU is pretty close to a 3080 (mobile). </p><p><br></p><p>So that is pretty impressive for an integrated GPU. We shall see how accurate the claims end up being. </p>
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jim_vernon
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>A comparable Dell Precision laptop costs almost $2k more than the $6k MacBook Pro (just customized one on Dell’s site).</p>
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blue77star
Log in to Reply<p>I am not talking about Dell or HP, they sell garbage. I am talking about AMD 5950x with Nvidia 3090 etc custom built PC. Maybe it is just me, but laptops in general are not appealing at all.</p>
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brettscoast
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>Seriously what’s with the notch, the apple lemmings will come running for this stuff. I would much rather have a windows Ultrabook for a third of the price with similar specs.</p>
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rob_segal
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>They couldn’t fit a good 1080p webcam and ambient light sensor in the thin top bezel. One criticism of Windows laptops with thin bezels is the lack of quality with webcams. Also, this preps the MacBook Pros for FaceID in the future.</p>
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jdawgnoonan
Log in to Reply<p>Windows Hello facial recognition is not insecure and doesn’t require a notch. Not that I hate notches, I actually don’t care. </p>
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jim_vernon
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>The notch is irrelevant, and if the new M1’s specs are to believed, you can’t get a device from a competitor right now that matches the performance. You also aren’t going to get a Windows-based ultrabook with similar build quality for 1/3 of the price. A 15" Surface Laptop 4 with and I7, 16gb, and 512gb runs about $1700. For $300 more you get a Macbook with a 16" screen and a processor that will run circles around that I7, and do it with better battery life.</p><p><br></p><p>I’m very impressed at Apple’s silicon.</p>
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MikeCerm
Log in to Reply<p>The notch is really a non-issue because Macs have always has a "software notch" that covers the full width of the screen: the menu bar. You’re not losing usable screen real estate, because you already couldn’t use it. Because of the 16:10 aspect ratio, "full screen" content like videos and stuff will have big black letterbox bars, so you won’t see the notch when watching video, unlike on the iPhone, where the notch actually does eat into the usable space. <span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">I too would much rather have a Windows Ultrabook for a third of the price with similar specs, but such a device literally doesn’t exist. Whether you’re comparing the MacBook Air or these new Pro models, there simply aren’t any Windows ultrabooks that can match them at any price. A "similarly equipped" XPS 13 or XPS 15 is around the same price, within $100-200 of a MacBook Air or Pro, but you’ll get a slower CPU with a noisy fan, half the battery life at best, a screen that isn’t nearly as good (as the one on the MacBook Pro). Truly, I’m no Mac fanboy, and the average $500 PC laptop is 100% good enough for most people, but from a hardware perspective, PC laptops are not in any way competitive with MacBooks at the high-end. Apple Silicon is a massive differentiator and what Apple is doing with Mini LEDs and speakers, nobody else is close.</span></p>
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nine54
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>Great points. Chromebooks aside, rather than a "race to the bottom," the PC market has been on a march to premium as of late with a focus on ultrabooks and gaming. Apple now is forcing PC makers to hit the reset button. You can’t charge the same price and be half as good. Until Intel and AMD–or perhaps Qualcomm?–can compete with the Apple SoCs, they will have to compete on price. And they can’t compete on price via cheaper components; rather, they need to deliver premium quality at a discount to Apple. I’d expect the pricing pressure to impact suppliers, but the current shortages and supply chain issues might give them a bit of a buffer.</p>
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jdawgnoonan
Log in to Reply<p>Well, so long dream of Apple made processors resulting in a less expensive option. Same old, same old. You want an Apple laptop with larger than a 13" screen you have to shell out $2k. I am fine with less battery life and more than acceptable performance on my XPS.</p>
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MikeCerm
Log in to Reply<p>Nobody ever thought Apple was going to bring out a cheap big-screen laptop. The MacBook Air is the less expensive option. For what it is, the 13" MacBook Air is an incredible value, with performance on par with Intel’s best CPUs but with 2x the battery life, for under $1000. It’s a perfectly fine size for the average user who wants a laptop — not too big, not too small. And by only offering one size in (basically) the exact same chassis they’ve used for 4 years, Apple saves themselves a bunch of money in tooling and supply chain costs, and that’s why Apple’s cool with selling it for under $1000.</p>
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jdawgnoonan
Log in to Reply<p>Something tells me that there are a lot of people who would appreciate ability to have a larger screen on a non-Pro level Apple laptop. I mean, if you aren’t needing the horsepower of the MBP the screen is arguably the most important component considering that the performance is by default fine for the lifetime of the device as a given. I have used an M1 Air, and it is a fine machine, however I am happier with my XPS that is very comparable in performance and build quality, and better, for me, due to the larger screen. </p>
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davepete
Log in to Reply<p>I agree, Apple should release a non-Pro laptop with a bigger screen. The MacBook Pro now has an amazing screen and processors, but why not sell an M1 laptop with a good-enough 15" display for $1500?</p>
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winner
Log in to Reply<p>Profit margins, baby!</p>
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rob_segal
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>When the MacBook Air is refreshed next year (fun colors), they may be able to offer workstation-class performance in a thin and light notebook. Truth be told, there are scenarios where the M1 MacBook Air is outperforming a gaming laptop it replaced. A thin and light laptop with better performance and much better battery life than beefy, more expensive Windows laptops could be a big selling point for consumers. </p><p><br></p><p>These new MacBook Pros are really impressive. Next year’s MacBook Air could be a really big deal. </p>
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hbko
Log in to Reply<p>By matching and outperforming “gaming PC” laptops the message to game developers is also very clear – do release content for Macs running on M1.</p>
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VancouverNinja
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>Good luck with that. And you do realize Apple was sucker punching everyone again comparing almost a two year old intel processor yeah? MSI and Lenova? Lol.</p>
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prebengh
Log in to Reply<p>If you take a look at the evaluation of the new M1 chips over at anandtech.com, you will see that the M1 chips far outperforms the newest Intel chips</p>
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VancouverNinja
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>That was not my point. It was the slimy effort to compare nearly two year old processors to theirs. The difference between the top laptops out there for almost everyone is not worth the sacrifice to buy a macOS based system. And while you seem to believe that Apple will own performance in the future, this initiative could end up being the worst move Apple have ever made within the next 5-7 years. When companies decline it starts to happen well before anyone sees it coming. I don’t think this was the right long term decision for Apple. </p>
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bkkcanuck
Log in to Reply<p>I am expecting that the CPU only performance will come in somewhere between an Intel Core i9-10920X (12 core) and AMD Ryzen 9 5900X (12 core) with certain optimized workloads taking advantage of the Neural Processor and Metal framework – potentially much higher. (based on the vague references in the marketing material). With a mixed workload which can be optimized on the same memory using the CPU / GPU / Neural Processor and other specialized processors – with the memory having more than 6 times the bandwidth of your top desktop CPU processors (not including Xeon) and a much lower latency… there is potential for higher optimized applications that can take advantage of mixed processors. </p>
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wright_is
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>Apple hasn’t introduced any new Intel based Macs in the last year, so they have to compare it to 2 year old Macs. Don’t forget, they are targeting them at professionals looking to upgrade their existing MacBook Pro’s.</p>
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Greg Green
Log in to Reply<p>The sad part for intel is that their latest laptop part is the only one to beat the entry level M1, everything else ties or loses.</p><p><br></p><p>the other sad part for intel is that this is as close as intel is goin to be with apple for the next few years, until apple stumbles or intel gets its mojo back.</p><p><br></p><p>apple has set a new standard for ultra thin laptop cpus.</p>
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Greg Green
Log in to Reply<p>Intel isn’t doing much better with their latest. Only the top level intel beats the entry level apple, the rest tie or lose. Apple still beats over 90% of the laptop chips out there, which are primarily intel, since amd is just entering that market.</p>
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innitrichie
Log in to Reply<p>Great timing with Microsoft looking to push people to buy new hardware to run the latest OS, I can now included these MacBook Pros in my list of options. Actually very compelling, I’m fine with macOS, Apple will support them with the latest versions of macOS for seven years – not sure about Microsoft and Windows anymore, and the M1 Max especially is insane in terms of performance and efficiency for maintaining incredible battery runtimes.</p>
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digiguy
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>I think Apple will be supporting Apple Silicon for longer, probably up to 10 years, which is at least as much as Windows versions have lasted until Windows 10 (we don’t know about 11)</p>
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nbplopes
Log in to Reply<p>An example of Apple innovating the internals and updating the externals. What outstanding beefy machines these ones are on all fronts … </p><p><br></p><p>Desktop class performance with laptop class design and autonomy is finally here for real.</p><p><br></p><p>Until Apple unleashes what it means Desktop class performance for the next 10 years, that is.</p>
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spiderman2
Log in to Reply<p>Suddenly to have a thin, light and magic bar notebook is not important anymore… I love apple fanboys.</p><p>at least with that notch you can use facei… oh no wait,</p>
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RobertJasiek
Log in to Reply<p>As much as I appreciate the M1 series’s efficiency, I never buy any device with a notch, which would insult me every second of usage.</p>
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pecosbob04
Log in to Reply<p>Oh crap, Well now Apple is in trouble!</p><p><br></p>
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j5
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>I switched to a M1 Mac Mini back in April. I was 100% Windows before then. After using the M1 for a few months it’s been great and it is really fast. However, that being said I feel like Apple, Microsoft, Intel, and AMD have all hit their peak as far as speed and features relative to every day computing, every day security, and gaming. NO ONE has brought forth anything completely new nor innovative. It’s all speed updates with processing and storage, making things smaller, changing up designs to just make things look different. All these small speed updates, changing up of designs, adding and taking away hardware technology that’s been around (like screen tech) is just to keep up with the yearly “have to provide something new market.” It’s like kind of weird tech shrinkflation. Tech gets smaller and a little bit faster but also gets more expensive, all the while nothing technologically new is brought forth. Smaller bezels, better cameras, folding phones, faster chips…that’s cool…but not innovative nor new.</p><p><br></p><p>Is this bad? I don’t know probably not but it’s not good as far as choices for consumers. Maybe it’s due to lack of competition in this tech space?</p>
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Greg Green
Log in to Reply<p>Or at this point they’ve become appliances with most of the details settled. There hasn’t been much innovation in microwaves over the last few years either.</p><p><br></p><p>most people are using laptops for documents, email and web browsing, and there’s not much more innovation needed there.</p>
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christianwilson
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>These look like great upgrades to the MacBook Pro line. I’m glad to see they added more ports, the screen upgrades are nice, and the upgraded webcam is a long time coming. </p><p><br></p><p>About that notch. I never had a problem with the notch on the iPhone. I never notice it in use and I think Apple does a good job of using the screen space on the sides in a sensible way. The iPhone notch could be looked at as a "forehead" with some real estate replaced by screen. <span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">I think it looks strange on the MacBook, however. </span>Even the iPad Pro avoids having a notch despite the thin bezels. </p><p><br></p><p>I think it’s a poor design choice, though most people won’t be bothered by it. </p>
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bkkcanuck
Log in to Reply<p>The iPad Pro has a sizeable bezel (the safe zone for holding with two hands)… much more than the current MacBook Pro … and the depth on the iPad for camera assemblies is probably on the order of 20 times more cavity space than the lid of the laptop (why most laptops have problematic cameras). Most people don’t have enough stuff to make the notch problematic (top bar).. I am one of the few but I expect the top bar organizers will handle any issues with the safe zone… If I get one, I will just set it black and it I won’t notice it at all… I don’t notice the one on my phone unless I am looking for it. </p>
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Skandalous
Premium MemberLog in to Reply<p>Bought a 16" yesterday and maxed it out with 64gb Ram and 8TB SSD. Been waiting a long time to replace my 2016 MBP. Can’t wait! </p>
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bkkcanuck
Log in to Reply<p>Nice! If I jump, I will probably only go with 1 to 2 TB … but I am not a video editor… I am trying to decide whether to go for a laptop or wait 6 or so months for a Mac Mini version of it.</p>
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mareczek
Log in to Reply<p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">While we can have our thoughts on the notch (I think it is setting things up for faceID in the future), can we agree the M1 chips are damn impressive, and this is just the first version of chips.</span></p>