I’m done with Windows

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56

After being an exclusively Windows user since WIndows 98 and big Windows Phone fan I have decided to move over to the Mac for my main machines.

After years of WIndows 10 updates who can seriously say that Windows is getting better? RIght now Windows is so inconsistent and my opinion unloved. I am so sick and tired of Microsoft having a go at something and then just abondong it. Let’s take the Creators update for Windows, that big push to make Windows great for creatives and add new UWP apps like 3D paint and adding built in 3D apps. SInce then nothing has been done with it, just left to rot away in the MS wasteland, same as the Surface Studio with its ancient Intel processor.

The lack of polish and care in Windows is appalling – how hard is it to update the icons from Windows 95, XP and Vista eras? Applying the fluent design language across all apps and parts of Windows would be a nice start. Why does MS allow the store to be filled with dodgy copy cat garbage, con merchants charging people for free open source apps? Let’s be honest Apple would never do such a thing.

I just look at what Apple is doing with the Mac, the new Apple silicon but also the direction MacOS is being taken in and I see a company that is at least trying to make a better product. How can Apple in one update refresh the entire UI consistently where as Microsoft slowly sprinkle new design elements over Windows across several updates?

I will still continue to rely heavily on MS services, but now I’m done with WIndows.

Comments (55)

55 responses to “I’m done with Windows”

  1. Avatar

    scoop

    Before your trip to the Garden of Eden from which not all return, try Win 10 Enterprise LTSC. No worries about UWP projects abandoned half-baked, as there is no UWP. All the under-the-hood improvements without the churn.


    Without LTSC I might be a near-exclusive Linux user now. I loved Windows 7 and I like tweaking too much to go to Apple, apart from the $$$. When the Modern/mobile/UWP push came along, I gave it a try. But it just doesn't thrill me. I keep waiting for the new feature or service that will inspire me to install Win 10 Pro again. But for now I am happy with LTSC (sort of Windows 7.5) and Xubuntu.


    On LTSC you can use OneDrive, Office, Teams and the Your Phone function. Now you can also run Edge. Plus standard desktop programs, from MSFT and elsewhere. If you added all UWP apps to LTSC, with an on-off switch, the only one I would switch on is Photos. Instead I install the old Photo Gallery/Movie Maker.


    It's easy to install a 90-day trial version of LTSC, which can be re-armed twice. It can also be activated via non-official means, for those who do such things.


    Before you give up on MSFT, Win 10 and keeping control of your own OS, LTSC is worth a shot.


    • Avatar

      helix2301

      In reply to scoop:

      A lot of customers of mine use LTSC and the only issue I have really seen a lot is on lower end business dell laptops the sound drivers n display drivers

      • Avatar

        waethorn

        In reply to garythornberry:

        It's a version of Windows 10 Enterprise that stays on the build that it starts at. The latest version is the 2019 version, which is equivalent to build 1809. It gets 10 years of support for critical and security updates, but absolutely zero feature updates, which are what increment the build number on regular versions of Windows. It's licensed only for single-purpose computers for "embedded applications", not general-purpose computers. As a result, Office isn't licensed for use on them. It doesn't have the Microsoft Store, or any "modern" apps either, but .Net Framework and Win32 apps can run just fine just like they would on Windows 8.1. It's designed primarily for kiosk and industrial computers.


        You can only get a license if you sign an Embedded OEM NDA and CLA and then once you have an OEM account with Microsoft, you can purchase it from Microsoft Authorized Embedded OEM Distributor, such as Advantech in the US. It's licensed for different processor grades at different costs.

        • Avatar

          scoop

          In reply to Waethorn:

          You can also install a 90-day trial/eval version of LTSC from the MSFT site. It can be re-armed twice, so you have a 9-month window if you want it. Also there are non-official ways to activate it.


          I can tell you from personal experience that Office 2019 installs and runs just fine on an eval version of LTSC 2019. (The click-to-run "permanent" version, not 365.) The new Edge also is available. Pretty much everything you get on Win 10 Pro is available, apart from Cortana, Store and UWP apps. Some folks scratch their heads and say those things are what make Win 10 what it is. Other folks, like me, smile and enjoy the idea of running Windows 7.5 with up-to-date security.

          • Avatar

            waethorn

            In reply to scoop:

            You're talking about pirating a copy of Windows, using it in an unlicenseable method, and in doing so, you're doing people here a disservice.

            • Avatar

              scoop

              In reply to Waethorn:

              I am not selling anything to anyone. That would be piracy, it would be illegal, I would not do it, and if I did do it I would be subject to prosecution, as would anyone else.


              What I am doing is sharing my experience of the best supported version of Windows available. I pointed out how one may obtain a perfectly legal and legit eval version of it. I also acknowledged the reality that non-official methods to activate Windows are out there.


              I do not recommend or endorse that, and I most certainly am not selling anything.



  2. Avatar

    F4IL

    Funny that you mention Windows 98, an OS that shipped in the 90's, a decade that saw genuine enthusiasm and technological progress for Windows and the PC industry as a whole. Kids would go to the computer store after school to check out the new OS and plan their next PC based on the new system requirements. This didn't happen out of a consumerist need to "buy new stuff" or "get work done", it happened because people were excited about the new capabilities and software you could run on Windows. As you can attest, a couple of decades later this is no longer the case.


    Arguably, quite a few people in the Windows world feel what you described but it is not necessary to give up Windows, especially if you find it useful. That said, you owe it to yourself to at least explore alternatives.

  3. Avatar

    shark47

    In reply to Jeffsters:


    Thanks! I've ordered the dongle. That said, the M1 Air is a remarkable machine. It's the first computer that I've had that just works (my Surface Pro (5) came close actually). What Apple has achieved here is just remarkable and I don't see how the PC industry will be able to match this.

  4. Avatar

    illuminated

    Hate icons? Change the platform. Makes sense I guess.

  5. Avatar

    winner

    In reply to Jeffsters:

    What's funny is that the last ten years was the emergence of Linux just about everywhere but the desktop. The desktop is the bastion of Windows but linux is almost everywhere else. And it's much bigger than Windows.

    • Avatar

      dftf

      In reply to Winner:

      Probably because while you could plonk someone down in-front of a beginner-recommended Linux distro like Ubuntu or Mint and they could adapt to opening files, using the web-browser and that sort of thing it's still not the most-friendly when it comes to configuring things (lots of dropping back to the Terminal), troubleshooting (again, Terminal) and cryptic error-messages.


      For example, on Windows if you try to install an app from an .MSI while one is already going you'll see something like:


      "Windows Installer: another program is currently being installed. Please wait for that installation to finish and then try installing this software again".


      On Linux, try downloading something from the built-in Store app while the distro is installing distro-level updates and you'll get something like:


      "Ubuntu Software Center: error, another user or process has a lock on "APT".


      End-user: what the f**k is APT?

  6. Avatar

    hrlngrv

    Re Creators and 3D, as someone who only uses Windows for work and whose work doesn't involve creating anything which could possibly be called artistic and with no interest whatsoever in Paint3D, 3D printing or anything else 3D other than the disk space that wastes on my PC, I can't say I'm upset at all that MSFT has done nothing with it. Given MSFT, it seems the majority of Windows users' preferences are closer to mine than yours in this regard.

    In crude terms, MSFT throws things against the wall. That which doesn't stick is abandoned before MSFT expends to many resources on it. Thus all things 3D.

    Why does MS allow the store to be filled with [crap] (to put it in tersest accurate form)? Because MSFT needs something in the Store, and ISVs apparently see damn few benefits to the Store. Thus the only way to get the number of offerings up is to allow it to turn into a cesspit. Ponder the possibility that this may be an outstandingly apt measure of what MSFT thinks of its users. That is, don't pay attention to what Chris Capossela says, look at what MSFT provides.

    Why doesn't MSFT radically change Windows? Because MSFT needs A LOT of people to keep buying Windows and Office, less so now that they also have Azure, but Windows and Office still generate A LOT of profit. Why does Control Panel still exist? Because way too many PC users use old hardware peripherals which have .CPL configuration applets which are simple to drop into Control Panel and (it seems) a major PITA to incorporate into Settings. Also old technology it seems MSFT has no interest in rewriting for Settings, such as Infrared, dial-up networking, etc.

    Metaphor time: think of Apple and MSFT as cookbooks. The Apple one is What's the Latest in Nouvelle Bay Area Cuisine? while MSFT is Ethel Redmond's Family Cooking. Kinda have to accept a fundamental difference in perspective.

    • Avatar

      wright_is

      In reply to hrlngrv:

      I think it is also the audience. The majority of Microsoft's customers are conservative companies that don't want to have to invest in re-training their staff every 6 months, because the Windows UI has changed.

      Heck, we were inundated with calls, when Microsoft removed the Search bar from the Folder view in Outlook and placed it in the title bar! People were used to clicking at the head of the list and typing in their search, the box was suddenly no longer there and they didn't know how to search! (Looking at the title bar of the application was too big a sea-change for them).

      You have to remember that a vast majority of Windows users don't "use" Windows, they use 1 or 2 applications at work for 8 hours a day and the less they know about Windows, the better, there are more important things in life than computers. Therefore they learn the bare minimum by rote and therefore, as long as nothing changes in the Windows UI and the application UI, they can work. Move a control or rename it and they are suddenly lost.

      That is the problem that faces Microsoft. The small number of enthusiasts, like us, want it to be modern, want it to change, but the vast majority want it to remain the same.

      Inconsistency, when they do change, doesn't help. The "standard application" list for different file types is currently "broken" in 20H2. Adobe Reader had grabbed .json files for itself (instead of Notepad++ or VS Code) and in the new Settings interface, I could only select a Store app. There was no way to select an installed application! You have to actually go into explorer, right click on a file of the type you want to change and then select "open with...", then you get the option of the current application, a store application or "other", where you can select from a list of installed applications. That "other" is simply missing from the Settings panel.

      The new settings are broken. The default configuration, when added to a domain, means that the local administrator, the domain administrator and the normal users can't change any settings that require administrator privileges! You can't change network settings etc. for example. Luckily, most of those are still available over the "old" Control Panel - although I had one server that didn't even let the administrator use Windows Update! I had to rebuild that one.

    • Avatar

      shark47

      In reply to hrlngrv:

      Good points. I also think Windows 8 set them back by a couple years. Windows 10 not only had to move Windows forward, but also had to undo some of the radical changes made in Windows 8.


      I'm also surprised more apps don't take advantage of the pen input on Windows, which probably speaks to the popularity of these apps. (That said, I don't see too many on the iPad either.) I really liked Fresh Paint. It was a lot of fun to use. I also use Photoshop to touch up photos from time to time and find the pen a lot easier to use than the mouse.


      At the end of the day, Mac OS is a consumer focused OS and for most users, it'll probably work better. Windows is more focused on the enterprise and for a home user, they'll have to live with all of the baggage that comes with it.


    • Avatar

      dftf

      In reply to hrlngrv:

      You seem to think along the same lines as me, though I will add some feedback:


      I do think it was silly for Microsoft to make a big-thing out of the "Creator" updates for Windows 10, and then for this to never really be mentioned again after-that. And the 3D apps may well be used by some, but it's hard to say Microsoft is creator-focuses when you compare now to the past when "Windows Movie Maker" was regularly updated, plus you had the "Windows Live" suites with their various apps.


      "Because MSFT needs something in the Store ...": I'd disagree turning it into a cesspit is the only way to boost-numbers -- what they should do is allow the Win32 versions of apps into the Store by allowing the .MSI versions of installers to be added. So-many of the apps I use aren't in the Store, yet the majority offer both .EXE and .MSI installers. Allowing .MSI would solve this issue almost overnight! (And at-least they haven't -- yet -- gone the route they did in the dying-days of Windows Phone in putting web-app shortcuts into the Store and pretending they were natively-ported apps!)


      "Why does Control Panel still exist?": well, I do think MS could be quicker here at porting stuff over -- and it's puzzling why for things they have fully moved-over, such as the old "Taskbar and Start Menu Properties" dialog why they still have a shortcut for this in Control Panel, when all it does it launch the Settings app. And why bother having "Windows Mobility Center" when it's an app, and can be launched from the Start Menu. As for things they can't remove, due to legacy driver hook-ins, like Keyboard and Mouse, there is no-reason why they can't just make the launch-point for them a link inside the Settings app. So while I understand the history, it's still fair to say MS really could move quicker on this...



      • Avatar

        hrlngrv

        In reply to dftf:

        what they should do is allow the Win32 versions of apps into the Store by allowing the .MSI versions of installers to be added.

        My perspective is that Windows ISVs simply aren't going to let MSFT take 30% of software sales revenues. Those ISVs just don't find it worth it.

        Pretty much nothing I use is in the Store, other than Office maybe. Notepad++? There used to be a blog on just how hard it was trying to put it into a Store package. Beyond Compare? Nope. 7zip, WITH commandline executables? Nope. GNU R and RStudio? It is to laugh, and note that MSFT doesn't even have it's own ROpen in the Store. ReText? Nope. Nor LyX with a complete LaTeX system. There is a UWP version of VLC in the Store, I've tried using it, and I stick with the traditional desktop version, thanks.

        Re Control Panel to Settings, there's Fonts in both. Why? From a different tangent, COULD MSFT move more quickly moving remaining Control Panel functionality to Settings? Sure. Why doesn't MSFT? Cynicism warning: it's not worth the expense and developer resources for them to do so. Too little ROI in moving at all let alone more quickly. In simple terms, from MSFT's perspective, WE'RE NOT WORTH IT making the Windows UI more consistent.

  7. Avatar

    ianw789

    In reply to Jeffsters:
    "Once copied into Photos your originals are stored in iCloud and available across all your Apple devices"

    ... and nowhere else! You may not choose any other make of device if you ever want to conveniently see your photos on it. Welcome to Apple. The M1 is their latest and very compelling incentive to sell your soul (uh - photos) to the closed Apple ecosystem.

    • Avatar

      interloper

      In reply to ianw789:

      Wrong. Your photos can be accessed on any machine in any web browser via iCloud.com (just like Google Photos).

      • Avatar

        ianw789

        In reply to Interloper:

        I stand corrected. I see that my frustration about being unable to conveniently get Photos IN to a [Apple]Photos library from anything other than an Apple device clouded my thinking about getting access to photos. Or does iCloud/Photos now have an Android client?

        • Avatar

          scj123

          In reply to ianw789:

          Or you could install iCloud for Windows it allows you upload photos into your iCloud Photo library from a PC

          • Avatar

            ianw789

            In reply to scj123:

            So I would have my Android phone upload to OneDrive camera roll, which then syncs down to my PC so I can point the iCloud for Windows client on the PC to upload those photos to iCloud? No thanks.


            Apple does not make it easy unless you all-in on their hardware and software ecosystem.

            • Avatar

              interloper

              In reply to ianw789:

              You are tying yourself in knots to prove a point here. The Mac Photos app is really a lightweight DAM and editor for the iOS camera roll/iCloud Photos. If you don’t have an iPhone, use something else.


              If you’re trying to edit/manage your photos from an Android phone then stick to Google Photos or OneDrive sync. Both are as accessible on a Mac as on a PC - from a web browser.


              Alternatively, sync your pics from Android to either of the above and install the relevant sync client on a Mac. You can have them download offline and import into Photos if needed. But again, it feels like the wrong tool for the job when decent online tools already exist.

              • Avatar

                ianw789

                In reply to Interloper:

                I'll agree I stumbled out of the gate. :-) In the context of someone deciding on the pros and cons of keeping their M1 (the thread for which I missed connecting to!), I think we agree: Apple Photos is very good for only Apple products. And if you have any Android in the mix, now or in the future, then OneDrive or Google Photos offer broader support.


                Our family photos ended up in Apple Photos. My advice if not to go there unless everyone is committed to being all-Apple for the foreseeable future.

  8. Avatar

    wright_is

    Apple seem to be taking away a lot of what made macOS macOS and are trying to turn it into a desktop version of ios.

    The changes with phoning home every time an application is started, for example. Windows does more than enough with telemetry, without me switching to a system that asks permission from Apple every time I want to open my own applications on my own machine.

    • Avatar

      waethorn

      In reply to wright_is:

      Your assessment of the situation is over-exaggerated. There is no personal data, no IP addresses, no connecting information about WHO is using what application, not even at the computer level. The system is only checking for security certificate revocation. When the system is offline, it doesn't do this check. Windows has been doing this since Vista. The reason why this caused an issue was because the DNS entry for Apple's server was resolving, thus confirming an IP address for communication, however the server itself wasn't responding to requests in a timely manner because of load. The whole original article regarding that was written by what seemed like a Stallman-fan that fabricated almost all of the details to blame Apple for something that is common-place, just to advocate that Linux is somehow more secure. In fact, practically every Linux repo does the same checks whenever it checks for updates, unless you use your own repo.

      • Avatar

        wright_is

        In reply to Waethorn:

        If it regularly (every day, every 4 hours or whatever) checked for new revoked certificates, I'd be fine. It is the checking every time an app is opened that I find worrying. And it has to have the IP address, otherwise it can't send a reply to state whether the certificate is valid or not.

        There are other things, like excluding all Apple "trusted" services from being firewalled, if you run a software Firewall under Big Sur, it can't actually block any services, just user level programs.

        It is this sort of nannying that puts me off Apple's products. (There are other examples, but I'll leave it with these two for now.)

        In fact, practically every Linux repo does the same checks whenever it checks for updates, unless you use your own repo.

        You see, there I would have no problems. But every time I actually launch an application?

        • Avatar

          waethorn

          In reply to wright_is:

          The firewall thing is a non-issue affecting next to no-one. On many other platforms like mobile ones, or ChromeOS, you can't even run a software firewall in a system context (except on Android, which requires hacking up the OS to do it). Apple still allows a software firewall for user applications using their network API's and what the article writer claims about the software firewall companies complaints are false - the one company even says on their website that they rewrote their software as a new, grand vision of what it could be, without any complaints about Apple's changes, and suggests users to upgrade. In fact, you can even block the app certificate authority, which was the main complaint.


          BTW: SmartScreen in Windows checks on every application launch too, although their own server is horrible for reliability and goes down frequently as is evident when it says "SmartScreen can't check the authenticity of this app right now" (paraphrased). And this functionality isn't even new to Big Sur, although the restriction to firewalls is because Apple has finally expunged kernel extension support -- something Microsoft reversed course on in Vista SP1 (64-bit) only to bend to the will of antivirus companies, which was a boneheaded idea to begin with because it equally gives virus writers easier access to the kernel and similarly bungs it up with crappy antivirus code.


          Oh and on a Mac, the built-in software firewall is turned off by default, just as it is on many Linux distributions. I guess this is Apple's way of suggesting that hardware firewalls are far more practical. And you can still edit the hosts file anyway.

    • Avatar

      bkkcanuck

      In reply to wright_is:

      I agree that there is a move to merge the two OSs into a spectrum of OS with component features, but I have not lost anything of importance from macOS. The only thing of note is the simplification of Disk Utilities to create volumes and etc. has lost some advanced features during the rewrite... (good for 99% of users). For the rest of us, the terminal commands still support all features such as setting up volume mirroring.

      As far as the application 'phoning home', all it basically is basically a certificate authority that ensures security with regards to 3rd party applications and malware insertion. It is not that much different than the certificate authority everytime you open any HTTPS website. They obviously made an errant assumption - which caused problems when the service is down, but I don't know how you solve it while maintaining security (the first thing malware would do is shut down security / network services so that it cannot be checked for malware).



      • Avatar

        wright_is

        In reply to bkkcanuck:

        Except that HTTPS certificate revocation is pretty much ignored by Chrome/Chromium and IE, I think only Firefox actually honours certificate revocation, it is something that Steve Gibson has ranted on often enough about over at TWiT.

        • Avatar

          beckoningeagle

          In reply to wright_is:

          You are so right on this. I had a customer who hired this company to do their web page. If you visited the page you would get all sort of certificate errors. The developers were not aware, but my customer kept fighting with them and they kept insisting that it was something with our web server, because they did not get the error message.


          My customer called me about the issue and asked me to call them and take care of the situation. I did not have to call them. I simply told my customer to tell them to stop using Safari for web development and join the rest of the world in using Firefox or a Chromium web browser, that they were not seeing the error because Safari was not honoring revocations (the problem did not appear when using Chromium, I haven't heard Steve Gibson's show in a while).


          Boom, problem solved.


          I got brownie points because since he was able to prove that the web developer was at fault he got a credit for time lost.

      • Avatar

        waethorn

        In reply to bkkcanuck:

        You can go into Disk Utilities and get it to show devices as well as volumes. When you do that, it looks like the older Disk Utilities versions.

  9. Avatar

    helix2301

    I love Microsoft services I really do but for me I don't have time to mess with that kind stuff anymore. I use the mac exclusively I need something reliable that works everyday I for years was struggling with Windows updates and issues with hardware compatibility. I am in the same boat I just need to get work done I don't have time to mess around with Windows issues. I moved our company to gsuite a few years ago just because it worked and we got no spam. I love Microsoft and I am still a fan boy but I don't have time to deal with all the issues day to day. However we still use office everyday because we need it and can't live without it.

  10. Avatar

    longhorn

    I don't think it's fair to compare Windows and macOS without thinking about the basic use cases these OSes are supposed to serve.


    Windows is the productivity OS for business and enterprise. Microsoft could drop all consumers/OEM users and would barely notice from a revenue perspective.

    Apple is the device company. It used to be decisively premium and still is, but with the new M1 Macs there seems to be a wish to offer computers at slightly lower prices.

    Google is the Search/Ad/Internet company that sets (de facto) Internet standards. Also a successful phone OS player.


    So it's important to understand what each company has been set up to do. Even if it wasn't like this from the beginning I think the market has been set up like a "nice" oligopoly by now and each company understands their role. Even the Surface brand is mostly targeting business users, while Windows OEMs/ODMs target the casual home computer user.


    I agree that for a casual computer user it might be a better choice to go with Mac if they can afford one, but I have too little experience with Macs to be sure. My experience with iPhones tells me that you have to be ready to swallow the Apple pill and not question why things are done a certain way. Some love it, some hate it and casual users likely don't care but still appreciate a consistent experience.


  11. Avatar

    shark47

    I decided to make the switch after the M1 chip came out. I love how responsive the computer is and it has some cool visual effects. That said, I'm toying with returning it.


    1. I used One Drive (as part of my Microsoft 365 subscription) to store pictures and Photos is tied to iCloud. Yes, I can import images, but that kind of defeats the purpose of having cloud storage.

    2. Edge on the M1 crashes. I know it's temporary, but I don't want to go in and store passwords etc on another browser.

    3. I don't want to relearn keyboard shortcuts. Some don't make sense to me as a long term Windows user.

    4. I can't stand the keyboard and I don't like the fact that there's no right click.

    5. I don't understand the Windows management of the Mac OS. Again, given my familiarity with Windows, it just makes sense to me.

    6. I can't even hook up the Mac to my monitor or plug in an SD card. I need to buy a new set of cables for that .



    Yes, it's me and yes, most people won't care about any of the issues I'm having, but for me, Windows just works (even when it doesn't). I really, really like the Mac, though. It's beautiful and a very spiffy machine. But to me it defeats the purpose when I have to go back to a PC to do certain things. I'm also looking forward to what Panay has in store next year.





    • Avatar

      john_m

      In reply to shark47: 4. I can't stand the keyboard and I don't like the fact that there's no right click.


      In settings for trackpad or mouse you can enable secondary click to get a right click

    • Avatar

      trevorcurtis

      In reply to shark47:

      Return it. I think a small wave of early M1 users having problems with their machines is about to make an appearance on stage...

      • Avatar

        bkkcanuck

        In reply to trevorcurtis:

        "Return it. I think a small wave of early M1 users having problems with their machines is about to make an appearance on stage..."

        If you make the claim that a wave of M1 users having problems - you should at least give more information about that. Of all that I have seen (both from Mac enthusiasts and Windows enthusiasts reviewing the M1) it is punching far above it's weight class with very few issues related to M1 devices. The limitations have been demonstrated tend to be people paying attention to these entry-level devices when typically they would never use entry-level devices (because of limited IO or memory of 16GB - which the vast majority of users would not use typically). I am one of those that use way more than 16GB typically, and more than 2 Thunderbolt devices (as well as a 3 monitor setup and 10GB Ethernet)... so am waiting patiently for the more powerful devices before making the jump.


        I have been watching the speed of Applications being 'optimized' for M1 and it is quite impressive (already many many applications I use are already there):


        isapplesiliconready.com - is a tracking site (of the apps they are tracking - 158 apps native; 79 through Rosetta2; 17 not working - with the ones not working being more or less expected to begin with).


        As far as @shark47 it sounds like he is wanting to be locked into what he is comfortable with (Office 365 / Cloud and Edge) - so it might be best to stick with Windows if he is set in his ways. Safari and I think Chrome just store their passwords in the standard Keychain (part of OS), and Firefox stores it in their own keychain (I would prefer all use the built in keychain). As far as Office 365 - I don't tend to use cloud services (I prefer storing only locally), though I do have Word/Excel for a year now - but only because I have regular documents from a contract that are in that format (otherwise I would tend just to use Pages and Numbers which have more than enough power for my needs -- and are free).


    • Avatar

      bkkcanuck

      In reply to shark47:

      #3 There has been a right click on the mouse for as long as I have been using the Mac as my primary computer. In 2007 I think it was an optional feature that defaulted off, but that has not been the case for a while - I do fresh installs annually and I always have a right click after install... in fact I don't think there is a checkbox to disable it. The main keystrokes (cut/paste etc.) are effectively the same you just use the 'Command' key for commands. (Control was originally used for terminal operation and using it as main commands is IMHO just overloading what should not have been originally used for Windows - just used because of legacy keyboards).

      #4 For a tile based OS the snapping to a specific region makes sense, but I find Windows takes away control by stealing my window placement when moving the window to a new location - which annoys me. I wish there was a compromise for both OSs (selection of tile based - with reserved window areas or free window placement).


  12. Avatar

    phil_adcock

    Funny I was thinking the same thing as I fired up my Windows 10 Laptop this morning I have a 10 year old used Macbook. I purchased it used....It's faster and more responsive then Windows 10. I open up the Mac and it starts right up everytime. I went to turn on the HP about 5 minutes ago and it took a full 60 seconds for Windows Resuming to go away and pull up the password screen. Entered Pin took about 15 seconds for it to register I typed and then another 20 for it to unlcock. If I put Windows 8.1 or Windows 10 Post Creators update this same laptop was snappy. Keep in mind I have actually removed all the crapware off this PC.

  13. Avatar

    navarac

    I agree with you, except I will not contemplate Apple stuff. Over hyped and over priced for me.

    I went Linux Ubuntu (except for a gaming machine) last January and haven't looked back.

  14. Avatar

    trevorcurtis

    I hate to bring this up, but if you want a slick and friction-free "consumer" experience Apple will always be more attractive than Windows. Almost everything you've described in superficial and has nothing to do with getting business work done. It's like asking for a hauling truck to have the slick looks and experience of a Tesla; good luck marrying gorgeous form and extreme function. Microsoft is not catering to consumer/creative customers at all and they are not apologizing for it either.


    I left macOS because it was not allowing me to get real work done. The software that I run works better on Windows. Apple seems to completely turn over their customer base every few years with platform overhauls that erase backwards compatibility and promote forced consumption. But hey, their product looks and runs absolutely fantastic, right?


    Get real work done or try to look good. Choose one.

    • Avatar

      hrlngrv

      In reply to trevorcurtis:

      getting business work done

      If your idea of business work involves MS Office, quite so. I mostly use Excel. Excel is in a class by itself. Well, Excel for Windows is in a class by itself. Excel for macOS isn't appreciably better than LibreOffice Calc because of all the features available in Windows which MSFT hasn't bothered to implement for macOS, not least the abysmal VBA Editor for macOS. If one's work involves spreadsheets, Windows is the best platform.

      Not so much beyond spreadsheets. Well, gaming, but that wouldn't be work.

    • Avatar

      aways987

      In reply to trevorcurtis:

      Get real work done or try to look good. Choose one.


      Sorry but it sounds like you have drunk the MS productivity kool-aid. There are some very specific instances where one has to use Windows, but for the vast majority of people macOS allows them to get work done. At this point Windows is just some APIs for me, everything I need for my work is on macOS. So why wouldn't I pick the OS that has forward looking and looks better. If I'm going to look at and interact with it for 10 hours a day it might as well look nice right? With the upcoming M1 chips it looks like there will ve a serious performance advantage over all WIndows machine. Time = Money. If it takes me half the time to render or export something in macOS on M1 vs WIndows I am obviously going to go with macOS on M1.


      Microsoft is not catering to consumer/creative customers at all


      They literally made a product called Surface Studio which has no use case outside of creative industries. How many Surface demos have we seen with Microsoft showing off Photoshop and the collaboration with Adobe? A lot.


    • Avatar

      bkkcanuck

      In reply to trevorcurtis:

      Yes, IBM does not use there 200,000 Macs for anything but games... oh wait sorry they cannot play games because people that play games tend to use Windows...

    • Avatar

      steenmachine

      In reply to trevorcurtis:


      "Get real work done or try to look good. Choose one."


      ???


      I work with many chemistry, biology, data, and digital scientists that focus on high-dimensional, complex problems, and the majority use macOS. Not saying that using Windows wouldn't be successful, but I'm not making blanket statements about "real work" being tied to one platform.



      • Avatar

        Sprtfan

        In reply to SteenMachine:

        Off the main topic but I'm surprised that people in chemistry and biology doing high dimensional, complex problems can get away with using a macOS. Chemistry and biology are large, diverse fields but everyone I work with uses Windows or Linux. None of the software we need will run on macOS. We used macs back in the 90's but not much in the last 20 years. I'm sure a mac would be able to, it is just that the venders haven't seen the need.

        • Avatar

          steenmachine

          In reply to Sprtfan:


          Oh for sure. Many bench scientists use Windows hooked up to their lab equipment b/c of the specific software. In my little world I interact more with comp chem, systems biology, statistics, and digital health, and I see mostly Macs but certainly it's not 100%.

    • Avatar

      j5

      In reply to trevorcurtis:

      I'd agree with what you're saying. I'm interested Mac solely from a Geek perspective of trying something new. But Windows, in my opinion has always been consistent in getting work done! It's just struggled in the paint job and screen doors category. And Apple's iPhone working seamlessly with it is a bonus but not anything critical.

  15. Avatar

    dftf

    To address some points from the OP, and from other commentators:


    "How hard is it to update the icons" -- well, it does cost time and money, but is there really a point in updating all of the icons? Many icons are only there for backwards-compatibility: because an old app (or driver) may reference them. That old app is unlikely to be able to support anything past a 1-bit (black/white), 4-bit (16-colour) or 8-bit (256-colour) icon, depending when it was programmed, so it's pointless work that would see little-benefit. I'd say most of the icons in the main UI, that most users will actually see, do get updated.


    "Applying the fluent design language across all apps" -- sadly this would likely mean turning them all into UWP apps, and most of those are s-l-o-w to launch compared to the old Win32 apps, especially the "Photos" app.


    "Why does MS allow the store to be filled with dodgy copy cat garbage": I agree this is bad, considering the whole point of the Store is to be safer (and was actively promoted as-such for "Windows RT" and "Windows 10 in S Mode"), though Android is still far-worse. Another main issue with the MS Store is many major apps still don't use it (e.g. Google Chrome and Firefox both aren't in there!) and when you search for such apps, you just end-up with loads of eBooks instead, using a very-similar icon. While Apple are better at curation, I'm pretty-sure not every iOS app out-there are all of the same-quality, either.


    "Con-merchants charging people for free open-source apps": agree, though you'll also find this on the Play Store, and on Amazon you can even find things like LibreOffice and Paint.NET, along with open-source games like SuperTuxKart, being sold on physical-media! So, again, not specifically a MS issue, something they all need to do better.


    (It's also worth-nothing that mac users have commented on here previously that the App Store on macOS also features many junk apps and also lacks many apps that you can download and install manually; so whereas the iOS store may be well-ran, it sounds like the macOS store is a similar-picture to the Microsoft Store on Windows. This will obviously change over-time with the iOS-ification of macOS on the Apple Silicon platform, of course, as iOS versions of apps will get preferential listings.)


    "Windows is slow": most low-to-mid range Windows PCs (i.e. not tablets) still come with HDDs: so yeah, what do you expect? Seek-times are a major cause of the issue: open Task Manager on a device with a HDD during login (after a cold boot) and you'll see speeds as-low-as 3-5MB/sec during boot! I'd bet virtually all Apple devices ship with an SSD by-default (except on Pro/high-end where capacity matters more). Even on older, SATA-II based devices, whack-in a decent SSD (e.g. latest Samsung Evo; Crucial MX500; Seagate BarraCuda 120 range) and you'll get up-to 270MB/sec read-rates with virtually non-existent seek-times. As MS doesn't have full-control, it cannot mandate SSD use, sadly. (And given that it has only just, as of Version 2004, banned OEMs from pre-installing 32-bit versions of Windows 10, I'd suggest mandating SSDs is likely not due anytime soon)

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