Windows 11 thoughts

After having a chance to check out Windows 11 for myself, I’m disappointed but not really surprised. After the incessant hype from Microsoft (especially the fanboys at WinCentral), I really thought this would be a substantial change. Maybe even a quality OS for the first time in a decade. But there is nothing useful to be found, only a bunch of unfinished superficial UI changes. How in the world can MS possibly justify calling this a “new version” of Windows? The only new feature is the stupid “widget” adware. The OS doesn’t even work right, with the usual glut of bugs that MS doesn’t bother to test for anymore. There will be a much bigger PR hit from pushing this garbage as “Windows 11” than if it was just another “feature” update. But the lack of features would be less of a problem if the UI was done right. Instead, this thing is the ugliest product I have ever seen MS put out. I never thought there could be a more inconsistent, scattered, confused OS than Windows 10, but just adds another massive layer of inconsistency on top of that. File Explorer is still the same as Windows 8, Control Panel is still included for some reason, and there are even components from Windows XP. The entire OS is a mix of 5 or 6 different design styles, and as you would expect it looks hideous. As if that wasn’t bad enough, the “modern” UI does not look anywhere near complete, is buggy, and huge bits of the shell were removed for no reason. At a time when MacOS and Chrome OS are so good, Microsoft should be embarrassed for even releasing this dreck. Windows 11 is “lipstick on a pig” taken to the next level.

Conversation 32 comments

  • Alastair Cooper

    16 June, 2021 - 7:56 pm

    <p>They haven’t "released" it. It’s a leak of an internal build. It doesn’t bode all that well but it’s not reasonable to draw conclusions from a version of the product they didn’t even intend the public to see.</p>

  • hrlngrv

    Premium Member
    17 June, 2021 - 12:35 am

    <p>I’m a bit put off by the new taskbar. I use an additional ‘toolbar’ in the taskbar (XP through Window 10), and Windows 11 doesn’t seem to allow that. I don’t keep much there, mostly links to help files so I can display them quickly. Annoying to need to use a directory on the Desktop as the most likely alternative.</p><p><br></p><p>Then there’s its vertical size. The <strong><em>only</em></strong> reason I can see that it needs to be so tall (wasting so many relatively scarce vertical pixels) is to show the full day of the @#$%&amp;*! week in addition to time and full date. I can live with a 3-letter day of the week abbreviation, and I really don’t need the year displayed (OK, yet). No way to change Windows’s system tray clock format.</p><p><br></p><p>OTOH, I’m overjoyed that local accounts can’t use the new Widgets applet.</p>

    • boots

      17 June, 2021 - 5:34 pm

      <p>In the screenshots I have seen the Taskbar doesn’t look much bigger and doesn’t show the day of the week, only the time and short date.</p>

      • boots

        17 June, 2021 - 5:37 pm

        <p>I can show the day of the week in my Windows 10 Taskbar if I unlock it and drag it bigger. </p><p>Maybe you can drag it smaller in Windows 11.</p>

        • hrlngrv

          Premium Member
          17 June, 2021 - 6:13 pm

          <p>The right-click popup menu for the taskbar contains exactly <strong><em>one</em></strong> entry: Taskbar Properties, which launches Settings &gt; Personalization &gt; Taskbar, and the only appearance option is for Left or Center placement of Start button and program icons. There is no lock/unlock, and there is no dragging the taskbar to other screen edges or making it wider or narrower.</p><p><br></p><p>That may change, and it had better do so.</p><p><br></p><p>FWIW, I believe the default Windows 10 taskbar is just 36 pixels wide (or tall when on bottom edge), 12 pixels narrower than the current Windows 11 taskbar.</p>

  • codymesh

    17 June, 2021 - 5:12 am

    <p>can we all just wait for the official event/unveil before making these kinds of sweeping judgements</p>

    • Lauren Glenn

      Premium Member
      17 June, 2021 - 8:13 am

      <p>Speculation will run wild until release. At which point, general disappointment will reign until the next revision… kind of like from the period between 1507 and 1511 where you discover what worked and what didn’t… and what was Microsoft’s fault or not.</p><p><br></p><p>As long as people know… unofficial ISOs of operating systems should not be run anywhere near your data unless you want it on the internet somewhere.</p>

    • hrlngrv

      Premium Member
      17 June, 2021 - 6:14 pm

      <p>Where’s the fun in that?</p>

    • zakand

      18 June, 2021 - 5:53 pm

      <p>The leaked build is almost complete, judging by the number. Nothing important is going to change between now and then. </p>

    • bkkcanuck

      22 June, 2021 - 6:32 am


  • lvthunder

    Premium Member
    17 June, 2021 - 12:04 pm

    <p>I for one think the UI refresh is fine for a new version of Windows. Who wants to go back to the days of having to wait for drivers to be updated and being disappointed when the device maker decides your device isn’t worth the trouble to do it. I also like that I don’t have to wait for updates or pay to update an app to work on the latest version of the OS.</p>

  • ikjadoon

    17 June, 2021 - 1:00 pm

    <p>Satya Nadella owns a lot of the blame. </p><p><br></p><p>Cannot fathom why he’d set expectations so high with “the next generation of Windows”. </p><p><br></p><p>it’s Windows 10. It’s more Windows 10 than ever. It’s a feature update. </p><p><br></p><p>Windows 11 = Anniversary Update, in that they’re both names for a Windows 10 feature update. </p><p><br></p><p>Then, Panos, who lives or dies by the hype cycle, so all the teasing, the outlandish senior executive tweets, etc. </p><p><br></p><p>The Store will be the only serious change, I think, and to me that’s an incredibly small part of the OS. I install apps maybe 1-2 a month and an update every other month. Most things update in the background anyways. </p>

    • navarac

      17 June, 2021 - 1:56 pm

      <p>If Nadella insists this is the "next generation of Windows", then he’s got his head in the Himalayan clouds. I would agree that it is only a point release. Going through the leaked version, it is fairly cosmetic at the moment with everything away from the immediate UI being the same. They’ve also removed functionality in some respects, such as additional taskbars, e.g. Quick Launch.</p><p><br></p><p>I’m not that keen on what I see so far, but feel it is such a superficial update, that muscle memory will very soon adapt. I’ll hold off a total "hate/love/meh" until it is fully released, but a provisional "meh" is perhaps right.</p>

      • hrlngrv

        Premium Member
        17 June, 2021 - 6:18 pm

        <p>| <em style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">he’s got his head in the Himalayan clouds</em></p><p><br></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">There are other less sunny places he may have his head, but I suspect deep down Nadella only cares about the $$$$ Windows generates and otherwise doesn’t believe it’s worthy of much attention.</span></p>

        • navarac

          18 June, 2021 - 4:30 am

          <p>That is probably true! Chairman and CEO? Difficult for anyone else to get a say in.</p>

  • ikjadoon

    17 June, 2021 - 1:08 pm

    <p>I’m calling it now. </p><p><br></p><p>It should’ve been called Windows 10.1, just like they did with Windows 8.1. </p><p><br></p><p>But Panos overruled that it immediately and said, “Nope, it needs to be marketed as a complete overhaul and new generation!”</p><p><br></p><p>Can’t believe I need to make the comparison: macOS only moved to a full version update because they rewrote the entire OS as Arm-native and launched a visual refresh. That’s what deserves a large version jump. </p>

    • jimchamplin

      Premium Member
      22 June, 2021 - 11:40 am

      <p>They didn’t rewrite it. </p>

  • wunderbar

    Premium Member
    17 June, 2021 - 2:27 pm

    <p>yep, after one single early, old build of an unannounced operating system that was not meant for the public to see, Windows 11 is a failure.</p>

    • hrlngrv

      Premium Member
      17 June, 2021 - 6:24 pm

      <p>I’d LOVE to see much which I dislike in the leaked ISO be fixed by early July in the next Insider build. Even by August.</p><p><br></p><p>OTOH, what I <strong><em>expect</em></strong> is that the UI, specifically taskbar and Start menu, are what will ship with RTM Windows 11, complete with needing to use REGEDIT to revert to live tiles. Digressing down this particular rabbit hole: could MSFT do such a thing and refuse to provide a GUI setting to toggle which kind of Start menu? Consider what’s currently necessary to adjust desktop icon spacing.</p>

  • waethorn

    17 June, 2021 - 2:51 pm

    <p>I think people are missing the point. Windows 98 and Me were only extensions of 95. The OSR2 versions of Windows 95 introduced more functionality too, and those were only released to OEM’s. Yet these were all treated as separate releases.</p>

  • navarac

    18 June, 2021 - 5:41 am

    <p>A Note: Without a TPM 2.0 Module fitted, installation of Windows 11 will fail. So, if you want to stay with W10 ………..</p>

    • navarac

      18 June, 2021 - 10:41 am

      <p>….also, tried installing with no internet access and it only gets to Language/keyboard choices. No Internet, no install. I don’t like it when I am compelled to use a Microsoft account.</p>

      • jimchamplin

        Premium Member
        29 June, 2021 - 11:58 am

        <p>Pro SKUs don’t require an MSA.</p>

    • Kendog52361

      24 June, 2021 - 11:51 pm

      <p>The issue, for me, with TPM 2.0, is I built my PC about 5 years ago, with Skylake, and while it’s running Windows 10, just fine, the motherboard (Asus Z170 Chipset) either doesn’t support TPM 2.0, or at least didn’t come with a TPM Module built in. I also think it was early enough that it doesn’t have/support any of the software/UEFI aspects of supporting TPM 2.0. As a result, I’m in the camp of needing to buy/build a new computer if I want to get Windows 11. I’m not complaining or anything like that, I’m just explaining why the TPM 2.0 Requirement is a problem for me/anybody else like me, such as my Dad who has the same motherboard.</p>

      • DavidSlade

        Premium Member
        25 June, 2021 - 2:02 am

        <p>Yep, a lot of motherboards do not have TPM chips or TPM built-in, I bet only higher end ones do. I have Gigabyte B150, it has an empty TPM header. I found TPM chips are out of stock locally. </p><p>All branded PCs are ok. Windows 11 is going to spur PC sales </p>

  • curtisspendlove

    22 June, 2021 - 11:36 pm

    <p>I found the recent article interesting. I’m actually very surprised Microsoft would select the term “lipstick on a pig” to refer to their own products. </p><p><br></p><p>In my experience, most people use the term “lipstick on a pig” to refer to trying to make a fat, ugly, smelly creature attractive. (Lipstick on the Pig fools one into finding an otherwise very unattractive thing to actually be attractive.)</p><p><br></p><p>So, in Windows 11 terms:</p><p><br></p><p>Its prettier. But it’s still the huge mess of buggy code that has all the problems 10 had (and probably some new ones). </p><p><br></p><p>I’m optimistic and hope they have more to share on Thursday than “lookie… </p><p> fancy new UI”, which is very appreciated (though I bet all the old subsystems will still have the old look…but hey, if they update it all, even MMC and such, I’ll be impressed). </p><p><br></p><p>But Windows really needs a lot of new things. We’ve talked about many of these things. I don’t think we are going to get very many. </p><p><br></p><p>What would I like to see?</p><p><br></p><p>. consistency</p><p>. a modern file system (I know NTFS isn’t *bad* but it could be a lot better)</p><p>. segregating all the old architectures out so they can sandbox apps (so crashes don’t down the whole system)</p><p><br></p>

    • curtisspendlove

      22 June, 2021 - 11:40 pm

      <p>I’m curious, as well, if this is going to be a free update or paid. I’d guess paid, since they are giving it a new number. </p><p><br></p><p>If it’s a paid upgrade, how many would pay for the upgrade? If you wouldn’t, what would it take to get you to buy a new version of Windows?</p><p><br></p><p>(For me, what I’ve seen so far is not compelling enough to pay more than like $10 – $20. If they want a typical $50 – $100 for an upgrade license…)</p>

    • Paul Thurrott

      Premium Member
      23 June, 2021 - 12:43 pm

      Microsoft doesn’t market the term. 🙂 This is internal folks, speaking plainly. And they clearly don’t mean it literally or as it’s been used elsewhere. Which is sort of the point here: People hear this term and have some conception of the meaning, but in the context of how Microsoft uses it, it’s a bit different. That’s literally why I wrote this.

  • hsehestedt

    24 June, 2021 - 11:10 pm

    <p>I’m rather amazed at the huge jump in hardware requirements. The minimum acceptable CPU in the Intel Core line is now an 8th Generation CPU.</p><p><br></p><p>I have a laptop with a 7th gen CPU, 32GB RAM, WIFi 6, a 4K display, Thunderbolt 3, a TPM 2, and really nice speedy NVMe SSD. Even with all that it is flagged as not being able to run Win 11 presumably because the CPU is not up to spec.</p><p><br></p><p>Wow!</p>

  • Kendog52361

    25 June, 2021 - 1:11 pm

    <p>So, here’s an update: I updated the "Check Tool" to see if my PC is compatible, and it’s saying that my processor isn’t compatible. It seems, taking it at face value, that Windows 11 doesn’t support Intel Skylake CPUs. I remember that Skylake was the last/one of the last to support Windows 8/8.1/so on, but I guess it’s now considered "old enough" to drop support with the "new Windows 11". I don’t know what will now be considered the "oldest CPU architecture", but I’m definitely interested in finding out.</p>

    • Kendog52361

      25 June, 2021 - 1:22 pm

      <p>I can’t find/figure out how to Edit my last past, but I just looked at Microsoft’s website, and it has a list of supported Windows 11 CPUs, and it looks like the oldest Intel Architecture that’s supported is Coffee Lake from 2017. I didn’t look at the AMD listing, but I would assume it’s also it’s 2017 CPUs.</p>

  • harrymyhre

    Premium Member
    26 June, 2021 - 8:55 am

    <p>One huge thing they need to do with Windows, but nobody ever talks about this.</p><p>The operating system itself should be on his own drive and that drive should not be easily accessible.</p><p>All applications should be on another drive, separate from the operating system.</p><p>User applications should never be allowed to be mixed in with the operating system. User applications should never be allowed to write anything on to the operating system drive – ever.</p><p>User data should then be on another drive.</p><p><br></p>

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