Microsoft Ends Groove Music Pass, Offers Transition to Spotify

Posted on October 2, 2017 by Paul Thurrott in Groove Music, Music + Videos with 215 Comments

Microsoft Ends Groove Music Pass, Offers Transition to Spotify

Microsoft announced today that it is ending its Groove Music Pass subscription and offering customers a seamless transition to Spotify. The firm will also stop selling music from the Windows Store.

Granted, they’re putting a positive spin on this.

“We’re excited to announce that we’re expanding our partnership with Spotify to bring the world’s largest music streaming service to our Groove Music Pass customers,” Microsoft GM Jerry Johnson writes. “Groove Music Pass customers can easily move all their curated playlists and collections directly into Spotify.”

The switchover starts immediately.

Windows Insiders who are also Groove Music Pass subscribers will be able to move their Groove playlists and content to Spotify starting this week, thanks to a Groove app update.

Then, starting next week, non-Insider customers will be able to do so as well.

And then, on December 31, 2017, Microsoft will close down Groove Music Pass completely.

At that time, anyone who has time remaining on their subscription will get a prorated refund, Microsoft told me.

Additionally, Microsoft will stop selling music from the Windows Store. The software giant said, however, that it would continue to sell movies, TV, and ebook content from the store.

It will also continue including the Groove app in Windows 10. But since it will no longer be able to stream or otherwise access subscription-based Groove Music Pass music, it will be relegated to playing back music on your PC, or in your OneDrive.

Microsoft’s Groove efforts have long felt somewhat forced, but to be fair to the firm, Spotify is the obvious choice for Microsoft fans, especially now that there is an Xbox One app. And I recently revealed my own transition to Spotify, which is so much better than Groove, with one major exception: There’s no way to upload your own music to Spotify. I communicated this need to Microsoft. Hopefully, we’ll see a future update where Spotify can access your OneDrive-based music. Cross your fingers.

Also, a moment of silence for what started off as Zune Music Pass.


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Comments (228)

228 responses to “Microsoft Ends Groove Music Pass, Offers Transition to Spotify”

  1. DaveHelps

    Hmmm. Spotify it is then. But like you, I will need OneDrive integration to make this feel like a good switch.

    Hey - does this mean we can now have family plans? Win! :)

  2. bbennett40

    Ok, Microsoft. You win. Beat my head against your wall too many times. I'm done.

  3. red.radar

    This seems mind boggling stupid from a strategic point of view. Does the left hand not speak to the right hand?

    I give them credit for taking the step to kill their woeful content stores. But they should have thought through the experience beyond just music.

    Microsoft does this massive partnership with Amazon for Cortana and Alexis. and you choose spotify? that is short sighted

    Microsoft/Amazon should have done a more comprehensive deal to include not just Alexis/Cortana for the IOT devices, but also include Amazon Music, Movies and Books. This would have been a juggernaught win of a deal that would make a windows PC very relevant for content consumption.

    All microsoft accomplished with this announcement was signal to customers do not buy content from our Movies and book stores because we haven't figured out how to offload them yet.

    the only way this makes sense is if there is a deal for microsoft to buy Spotify, but action had to be taken quickly before the deal closed.

  4. Jorge Garcia

    Now that this sad chapter is done, please forgive me for going off-topic and focusing on another (very likely) "wrong road" that MS is heading down. Windows 10 S. If MS really wants to compete with Chromebooks and iPads, Windows 10 S, while probably a good and necessary move, isn't going to get nearly all the way there. I think they should simply resurrect the Window Mobile OS and tweak it to work on tablets in a semi-productive (but decidedly non-desktop) way. I feel like 90% of the code is already done for that move, and they'd have an instant answer for the Post-PC consumer.

    • hrlngrv

      In reply to JG1170:

      Would your Windows RT Reborn tablets be able to run desktop software? If not, you really believe there'd be substantial demand? Enough that OEMs would make some? Enough so that MSFT wouldn't need to make most of them and price them at sub-US$10 unit profit margins?

      • Jeremy Woodruff

        In reply to hrlngrv:

        If you want to run desktop software, why did you buy a tablet?

        • hrlngrv

          In reply to Bleached:

          Good question.

          However, history has shown that when it comes to devices running an OS with Windows in its name, the inability to run desktop software invariably leads to failure.

          When Windows 10 1507 came out, MSFT was touting the sub-8" tablets running Windows 10 Mobile which would come out in just a few months. Then at CES in early 2016 there were a few such prototypes. Since then crickets. Find a link to any sub-8" tablet running Windows 10 Mobile available for purchase today.

          • Jorge Garcia

            In reply to hrlngrv:

            Then don't call it Windows. Call it Surface OS.

            • hrlngrv

              In reply to JG1170:

              MSFT isn't about to risk poisoning the Surface brand on a desktop-incapable tablet which in all likelihood would be a failure. You may believe MSFT must remain relevant in consumer markets. Investors, who've more than doubled MSFT's share price since Nadella became CEO, would seem to believe MSFT would be just fine as IBM 2.0.

              MSFT needs consumers a lot less than MSFT fans believe. MSFT fans also often fail to realize that MSFT is in business to make money. If they can make money in consumer markets, they'll offer consumer products. Otherwise, not.

      • Jorge Garcia

        In reply to hrlngrv:

        I'm not talking about RT. RT looked and felt too much like windows in that it had a true desktop. The new version should at most have a "homescreen", like an android tablet. No, there would not be substantial demand, but if they brought it into schools, maybe over the years it would get traction at some point. I'm just saying if they want to have a seat at the Post-PC table, they need SOMETHING to compete against Android+iOS, because eventually the idea of something as complex as an "old school" windows machine will be extinct outside of office buildings, if it isn't already.

        • hrlngrv

          In reply to JG1170:

          . . . if they brought it into schools . . .

          Please read about the Los Angeles Unified School District's fiasco with iPads, part due to the lack of school-focused apps and content (there'd be A LOT LESS available for non-desktop MSFT tablets) as well as tablets as tablets, i.e., without keyboards, being less useful than devices with physical keyboards. MAYBE tablets supporting pens/pencils/styluses would be OK, but they'd cost substantially more than Chromebooks, and as anyone who's worked for school districts or has had children knows, those pens/pencils/styluses would need to be replaced many times over the school year, substantially adding to cost.

          To be charitable, wishful thinking with no real world chance of happening.

  5. dcdevito

    One more step closer to a complete exit out of the consumer space.

    No offense to MSFT hardcore fans but they all still seem to be in denial.

  6. feek

    ?? Zune ??

    there's some irony that many of the best, differentiating features of Spotify were on Zune a decade ago

  7. drbohner

    In other related news.... Microsoft has sold its Xbox Franchise to Sega and games will be sold through the iTunes branding on the Sony Play Store.

    Welcome to the cloud!

  8. rob_segal

    Microsoft needed to keep Groove Music Pass alive to keep consumer confidence alive. Now, they damaged their consumer reputation beyond repair. They need to compete in the consumer space, not surrender the entirety of it.

  9. Michael Rivers

    Crap. I've got hundreds of megs of lossless music in OneDrive I play on Xbox, iOS and Android. That'll last about another 5 minutes before they shut it down completely. I need a plan B.

  10. Roger Ramjet

    I was wondering when I read this why Microsoft was busy doing crazy Eddie on Groove music these last few months, if they were going to shut it down anyway. Then it hit me: those were the funny or die tests. I have read somewhere that pure usage, rather than revenue is one of the key metrics now for all these Apps at Microsoft, I guess responding to competitors.

    So, I am guessing the freebie promotions were basically the last chance tests like, OK, what if we drop the price drastically, what is the best case scenario for uptake? And, I guess the answer was,not that great. So, to the chopping block (in fairness, they probably could not find a good null case, as other music services may have responded, for example, I signed up for Apple Music just this weekend on 3 month free trial).

    As a realist, I cant say I blame management here (except for past mistakes that may have made the App what it is). Not being a pure or passably business App already makes it suspect anyways, in the world Nadella is building. So, at the end of the day, I have to imagine these are strong signals from the top to the troops. Deliver software that people use. Or else. Every Microsoft App head honcho knows this by now fer sure. That's how I would spend my money too. But whatever is in their system systemically that holds them back, since this isnt just a Groove problem, that's still on management.

    • hrlngrv

      In reply to Roger Ramjet:

      Outside MSFT, no one knows the deal MSFT had with music producers/rights holders. I suspect it was a fixed $ + % arrangement, but the fixed $ portion turned out to be too high given the number of subscribers.

      I'm also curios whether Groove music was available in as many countries as Apple, Google, Amazon, Spotify, etc. If Groove was little more than US alone or North America alone, no big surprise it failed.

      • Angusmatheson

        If I was the music labels I would have worked to keep Groove alive. Apple, Spotify, and YouTube are all that are left (maybe Pandora will make it too). It seems to me in the labels best interest to have as many different streaming services as possible survive. I suspect soon the streaming services will have more power than the labels and make deals directly with the artist like they do with app developers. In reply to hrlngrv:

        • hrlngrv

          In reply to Angusmatheson:

          It could be in the labels' own perceived best interest to get as much money as possible sooner rather than later. The labels get more from music services selling to more customers. Apparently that didn't include Groove Music Pass subscribers.

          From my perspective, if music labels/producers went the way of saddle makers in the automobile era, damned little cause for sadness. May the RIAA whither and decay into the fertilizer they have always been.

  11. glenn8878

    About as successful as past efforts. Microsoft is predictable.

  12. Boo

    Expanding their partnership. So will Microsoft buy them or just provide a cheaper backend solution for Spotify to prevent them from going bankrupt?

  13. robincapper

    I guess I'll never get my stolen track back. Purchased an album (40 tracks) on Groove. One MP3 no longer on one drive, no longer plays as playlist/store says "Withdrawn by copyright holder". Except I contacted the copyright holder who hadn't withdrawn, Microsoft confirmed a store migration error had broken it, since then.... nothing

  14. dave0

    There is no money in the streaming music business. MS could put those resource on something more promising.

  15. maethorechannen

    The software giant said, however, that it would continue to sell movies, TV, and ebook content from the store

    And I would have any confidence in any of those purchases being around in 5 years because?

    I've been thinking of switching over to Amazon's music service anyway (I'm not going back to Spotify).

  16. Bart

    Hope MS will give Spotify the keys to the Groove Music app. The Spotify app is dire

  17. timothyhuber

    I can't say I'm surprised to see this coming. Seems right in line with the direction they are heading -- leading in certain areas and partnering with leaders in other areas.

    I was a faithful Zune Music Pass user, having switched from Rhapsody when I bought my first Zune. Stayed with the service when I transitioned to Windows Phone and then to Android, by which time it had briefly morphed into Xbox Music before settling into Groove. One by one the curated features went away, podcast support was deprecated, and the excellent Zune player was no longer developed. But they kept me hanging on to my $15/month subscription with the perk of 10 tracks to keep each month. Eventually that benefit was eliminated.

    What was left was a music subscription service just like every other, albeit somewhat less reliable. The one differentiator was the option to build out your personal catalog through OneDrive. I have lots of CDs (indie artists, imports and special editions) which aren't available on streaming platforms and even though my kids had moved on to Spotify, I stuck with Groove because of this feature.

    Then I put connected speakers in my house. I had wanted to put a Sonos system in our hour for years, but the price point never met with spousal approval and . With Chromecast Audio that I found an affordable, if slightly less elegant, alternative. But playing Groove Music on Chromecast was not an option. Google Play Music with All Access pass gave me virtually the same feature set as Groove -- a huge streaming catalog with the ability to upload up to 50,000 non-catalog tracks. Plus I could kick of a stream to multiple speakers around the house. And so last year I cancelled my Groove Music Pass subscription.

    What killed Groove for me? The same thing that has stopped me from seriously using the Windows Movies & TV store: the lack of support outside of the Microsoft eco-system. We cut the cable TV cord a few years ago and generally just stream using a couple of Roku boxes or an Amazon Fire TV stick. We also have one Xbox One on the TV in the basement. If we purchased or rented a movie from the MS store there is just one place to watch it that didn't involve sitting in front of a computer screen. But rent or purchase from Vudu, Amazon, or even Google Play and we can watch on any TV in the house, including the Xbox.

    So farewell, Groove Music Pass. May your development team move on to bigger and better things.

  18. arknu

    Satya Nadella continues being an unmitigated disaster. How much longer is the Microsoft board going to tolerate him tearing the company to bits? The shareholders may be happy now, but in 10 years Microsoft is going to be completely and utterly irrelevant (if even still around) if they keep this up. But as long as Azure is around, Nadella is happy, since that is really all he cares about.

    This is the complete opposite of what Microsoft should be doing. They should be going all in on the consumer side, do whatever it takes to stay relevant and gain market (and mind) share.

    In the long run, employees are not going to put up with using different platforms that what they are used to at home. Bring your own device means that for Microsoft to stay relevant in enterprise, it needs to be relevant to consumers as well.

    The only message Microsoft is sending here is don't trust any of our services. What's next on the chopping block? Movies & TV is obvious (I'm surprised that hasn't been axed already). But after that? OneDrive? Windows itself? Xbox? Office 365 (consumer)? No wonder Apple and Google are doing great if this is the best Microsoft can do for competition...

    • maethorechannen

      In reply to arknu:

      The shareholders may be happy now, but in 10 years Microsoft is going to be completely and utterly irrelevant

      Shareholders couldn't care less how relevant Microsoft is 10 years now. The only thing that matters is that the share price goes up in the short term.

      In the long run, employees are not going to put up with using different platforms that what they are used to at home.

      In the long run, most employees will be so grateful to have one of the relatively few jobs left that they will happily put up with whatever crap their employer gives them (which isn't all that different from now). Not that it will really matter, as the web (or at least something derived from it) is the platform and individual device choice becomes irrelevant. 

      • Jeffery Commaroto

        In reply to maethorechannen:

        Well said on both points.

        I would add most consumers will look back on owning a “computer” the same way they do having a landline phone or a TV antenna. Mobile devices are the future for the majority of consumers and it is clear Microsoft cannot compete in that space in an Android and iOS world.

        They can compete in running the backend that fuels the Android/iOS world because few people can build out data centers and infrastructure and scale. That is what makes shareholders happy, seeing a path forward. Say hello to Microsoft Linux.

      • toshdellapenna

        In reply to maethorechannen:

        The "shareholders" that he's catering to must be a bunch of shortsighted asshats! We should all become shareholders and change the whole "voice of the shareholders" mantra. Whether I had 1 share or 1 million shares, he wouldn't be speaking for me. I'd still be pissed off!

    • MutualCore

      In reply to arknu:

      Windows 10 has done more than great in terms of activations, and that's w/o major enterprise uptake yet.

      XBox has sold well enough to avoid the axe.

      Office 365 - has about 25-27 million consumer subscriptions so that will stay.

      OneDrive - probably will stay as it doesn't cost MS much. - probably will stay as it doesn't cost MS much.

      Movies & TV - yes, it will be gone in a few months.

      Also they will axe Windows 10 Mobile SKU in the coming months.

      • hrlngrv

        In reply to MutualCore:

        For consumers re OneDrive: are there a significant number of a la carte fee-paying customers, or are the vast majority of consumer OneDrive users Office 365 Home/Personal subscribers? If the latter, OneDrive shouldn't be considered a separate product. Office 365 Home (5 installs for US$99/year) may make sense w/o OneDrive, but Office 365 Personal (1 install for US$69/year) would make a lot less sense.

  19. toshdellapenna

    Does a seamless transition include a $30 per year pass to another service that isn't integrated or supported on my platform? I doubt it. Thanks again Salty Nutella for continuing to steer the titanic right into the iceberg!

  20. Tallin

    Honestly, I found that Groove was at least as good or better for what I use it for. I've never found any of the recommendations from either service relevant to my tastes. I tend to find music I like either by friend's recommendations or maybe once in a while by hearing a song on the radio.

    For Spotify, I haven't found an easy way to just shuffle through everything from one particular artist, for instance (and maybe i'm just missing something obvious - please let me know if I am). You always seem to just get a selection unless you either create a playlist and add everything manually or find a playlist someone else shared. Sometimes I just want to listen to one artist/band for a while and I like to hear some obscure songs along with the popular ones.

  21. HellcatM

    I don't understand why they just didn't drop the subscription. They can sell music in the store and let people play the music on whatever device they have that runs Groove. They could have left the music streaming to Spotify and stripped that out of Groove.

  22. MutualCore

    Well you can pretty much write off any chance of a Surface Phone now. You can't possibly have a smartphone platform w/o a first-party music service.

  23. PeteB

    This is why I won't spend a dime in the windows 10 Microsoft store or whatever they're calling it this week.

    Can't risk that my purchased software wont be available tomorrow.

  24. Hal9000

    I am so proud that for once I actually screwed over Microsoft before Microsoft screwed over me. In January I switched from Zune Music Pass... I mean Xbox Music Pass... I mean Groove Music Pass to Spotify and am so glad I did.

    After switching from the Mac to the PC back when Windows 95 came out, I am wondering if it is time to switch back. I have just been screwed over for too many things and don't really have the energy or the will to defend anything or to think positive. Zune, Windows Phone, Band, Xbox One TV recording, Media Center, Surface RT, all things that I invested in but Microsoft handled half-heartedly. The whole Microsoft ecosystem has become a sad mess. Screw them. They just don't believe in what they do for consumers. It's all about managers trying to leave a mark by renaming products. I'm done!

  25. Pedro Vieira

    MS continues to slowly walk away from the consumer market and focus their attention where the money is: enterprise. Just one more step towards becoming the next IBM.

  26. slerched

    I am sad. Not that I can't use a music pass. I'm sad because without Spotify offering a connection to One drive, I can't actually use the service to listen to the music I want to actually hear.

    I'm currently testing a device I'm not allowed to talk about. It had Groove integration yesterday. Woke up this morning to... No more Groove. Which means I have this thing that will do nothing for me besides set reminders and alarms, that I can ask questions and for jokes. For most people, Spotify is great. For niche use folks like me, it's terrible. And now this device is useless for me in the intended use case.

    If Spotify offered international music, maybe I'd be ok with it.. They don't do the country's music I listen to, so Groove with OneDrive integration was a miracle, letting me listen to music I bought wherever, and on this magic device.

    At least I can still do that with Groove on all my devices. Until Microsoft decides to stop supporting that too.

    Amazon offers uploading 250k tracks for $25 a year. Maybe I'll look into an Echo.

  27. mjyocca

    I personally switched to spotify. Groove definitely improved and loved the new fluent design elements. Part of me thinks MSFT should do one of two things. Give their source code of the app to spotify to use as a starting point in replacing the desktop app or buy spotify. I agree with a lot of their strategy of competing in markets where they can differentiate and do it better but at the same time some services I think have to exist just for other services. Xbox, surface, and other brands and services are affected now.

    I'm also worried about my movies and tv collection now. Going to hold off on buying anything MSFT except for xbox one x for awhile.

  28. PincasX

    Steve Ballmer was a great CEO in a lot of ways but he also seemed fixated on competing with Apple no matter what market they were going into. Zune, Zune Music Pass, the weird CES with the "slate computing demos", the complete mess that was MS's phone strategy, Band ... there wasn't a need for any of this crap and the only driving motivation to do it was that is where Apple was going. Thankfully Nadella appears to be putting an end to this and bring some sort of focus back to the company. That said, totally sucks if you bought into the MS ecosystem as a customer.

    • John Noonan

      In reply to PincasX:

      I do have to say, the MS ecosystem was never very good to begin with. My Xbox Music subscription was constantly plagued with licensing issues that caused me to have to delete and download my music library again, then for 8.1 they gutted Xbox Music to the point where it barely functioned. They released apps that were far from ready to the Android and iOS App stores and turned off more potential customers (I know two people who bought Christmas gifts card to try it and they were very much not impressed). By the time Xbox Music became Groove it was essentially dead anyway.

  29. feek

    One thing I'm wondering is if Microsoft has considered that many of the users who have pushed their small businesses and enterprises to Microsoft business solutions are enthusiasts of things like Windows Phone (and therefore Groove, and the like) themselves. You go to these IT conferences like Ignite, and you'll see the highest concentration of Windows Phones, and consumption of Microsoft consumer services, anywhere.

    As someone who works in IT and makes decisions on what services to use at businesses, I can say that I often find myself pushing Microsoft products because I see stability, and the value in the overall ecosystem. Now, I try to keep my biases and personal preferences out of business conversations and decisions, but feeling this personally burned makes me question the validity of using their services in business, and certainly dampens my enthusiasm for them. If I become an iOS and Gsuite user, I'll have much less enthusiasm for Office 365, and certainly put up less of a fight against someone who suggests using Gsuite.

    Basically, what I'm hypothesizing is, if Microsoft looses the confidence and enthusiasm of it's biggest champions, do we see even further erosion, of support and sales of their "bread and butter" enterprise services? Does it make business sense to keep these folks at the very least complacent with money losing services like Groove?

    Even further speculation - Has there been any study on the kind of people making business decisions in enterprise, and what their personal preference for device and services are? My theory that they are often Microsoft's biggest fans is just subjective observation. But is it complete coincidence that Office 365 and Azure took off the way it did during one of Microsoft's most exciting and creative consumer periods?

  30. Win74ever

    Hahaha. Good riddance. That music service was a joke, never meant to actually happen. I already can see: "Microsoft announced today that it is ending support to Windows 10 and offering customers a seamless transition to Windows 7 SP2".

  31. toshdellapenna

    I'm sorry Paul, but there is no positive spin on this. Especially for us mobile users. They would have to give me Spotify free for 3 years and also give it OneDrive support. Neither of which are likely to happen since the app Spotify is in maintenance mode.

  32. germdy

    What will happen with OneDrive 100GB Storage Space included for Groove Subscribers after December 31th?

  33. PanamaVet

    The Zune Pass music subscription was a great deal for me. For $15 dollars a month I could pick 10 tracks to own permanently and I could load unlimited trackts on my devices from one of the largest libraries of music available.

    I got $10 worth of tracks to own and the music subscription part for $5.

    I used the DJ feature to pick music similar to the song playing and rediscovered music I had forgotten.

    It was a joy to use and the single license was generous enough to cover all the devices I owned.

    That deal was not available with Groove unless grandfathered in from Zune Pass.

    My Zune HD is still going strong after 6+ years. I use it every day in my car. My iPhone sounds like an AM radio in comparison.

    The back of the Zune HD is screwed on so you can replace the battery. I replaced it once a few years ago without needing to.

  34. glenn8878

    Will they give up on the Cortana device? Seems like they shouldn’t bother. Their music approach is dead. The first thing I use my Amazon Echo is play music.

  35. mee123104

    Well that sucks, playing Radio Playlists in Horizon 3 won't be possible anymore I guess...

  36. zorb56

    I used Groove for two things: 1. Those free albums they offered a couple Christmases ago and 2. streaming music from OneDrive via browser. I will miss both of these features. Especially #2 because I wanted to do this and buy a bunch of Chromecast Audios for my house.

  37. dhallman

    Microsoft found amazing new ways to burn me last week. First I was amazed to find that Ignite was in Orlando. The same week I was planning to be there on vacation. Reading this site from the airport, as I waited to board, that Paul and Brad had arrived in the area was cool.

    Before departing I decided to use the link on Microsoft's site to download Nadella's book to read on the journey. Although the promotion page used Windows Store as the last option for download it seemed like the right way to purchase it. But I had noticed that Microsoft never brought the books tab to Canada (along with most of their apps and tech on Android and iOS). So I didn't expect it to work. I was correct. No dice. So I used Kobo. The UWP app failed to sync the book before boarding - or the first day of my trip. Oh well. Reading is too much like work anyway,

    A few days later we decided grab a Whopper and hit Universal's parks late-day. Upon arrival we were informed the parks were closing early for a special function that night. Fuming, I tapped my 950xl while eating an angry Whopper in the middle of the City Walk burger bar when a herd of Microsoft swag wearing guys with Ignite lanyards walked in. Yup, they did it. Microsoft got me locked out of the parks that night. (i'm kidding of course, I could have checked the park hours online before leaving - we went later).

    And what was waiting in my in-box when I flew home? No more Groove.

    A perfect end to the many ways Microsoft made my plans more difficult last week. -- Thanks for nothin' :)

  38. RobMuntz

    I had no problems moving to Spotify. A pop-up appeared after I signed up for Spotify with my Microsoft email address.

  39. grahamn

    So I cancelled my monthly about 2 days before the announcement.

    Today (my last day) I got my eMail saying subscription had ended, nice.

    BUT they were "sorry to see me go" and would "love to welcome me back anytime" even so good as to provide a link to groove/renew.

  40. bbold

    Once again, for like the 15th time, Microsoft has failed me as a recent Apple User who converted over to Windows 10 ecosystem products and services. Band, Phone, Surface Book, and now Groove. I'm so done. Thanks, Nadella.

  41. WayneRobinson

    Well, there were rumours a few months back that a family plan was coming to Groove. We just never suspected that it would involve swapping over to Spotify. I think this is the final nail in the coffin of my days as a Microsoft evangelist. Sad. So sad.

  42. nbplopes

    This should have happened a long time ago:

    • Users would have adopted a reliable way to deal with audio assets sooner rather than later.
    • MS would have actually shown developers that it’s willing to push also their products to improve their ecosystem rather than REPLACE THEM once it gets interesting.
    • Funny that now it’s Spotify helping MS when judging by business size would be healthier if it was the other way around.
    • I wonder how much have Spotify paid MS :)

  43. chaad_losan

    Well, don't that beat all! WTF Microsoft? Now I won't be able to play my music from one drive? I got this email at 11:23 pm PST. To the cloud! oh wait not the cloud I actually have my stuff in.

  44. straker135

    This is just further proof that Microsoft under Nadella have completely lost the plot. Trying to keep investors happy who only see profit in the enterprise space is a sure-fire recipe for ultimate irrelevance and the complete destruction of Microsoft possibly outside Azure platform provision. Microsoft's lack of commitment to a mobile platform, something Steve Ballmer seemed to understand the importance of, has meant loss of and retreat from the consumer space. Losing access to all that consumer data Google gets for free disables the provision of so many services Microsoft hopes to be a competitor with.

    If a company gets less than 10% of the feedback and data of a competitor they can't possibly expect to produce optimised services such as maps, location based services, Augmented Reality, search, integration with transportation, retail, government and other services, etc. And that is just in the USA. Ignoring the bulk of the rest of the World, basically 97% of Microsoft's potential users and customers, is short-sighted and underlines Microsoft's growing irrelevancy to the rest of us out here.

    I am reluctantly considering a post-Microsoft future for my computing. Even the growing quality and range of Surface devices can't keep consumer interest in a BYOD world when Microsoft provides nothing on their own platform that can't be provided better on iOS/OSX or Android/Chromium. And they will soon perhaps provide nothing any consumer wants for entertainment or social communication outside Xbox, if Nadella doesn't kill or sell that off, something that many investors have long wanted. Investors, at the reductio ad absurdum level, are just naked selfish greed, a drive which never built anything lasting or meaningful for the prosperity of humanity.

    If Microsoft truly wants to have meaningful value to us as users of technology into the future, abandoning the consumer space as they are doing is self-defeating. In my view they have 12 months, if that, to do something amazing to inspire and capture our imagination. Cloud platform services are not that thing. HoloLens as a pretty nearly ignored platform is not that thing. Office and Windows appear to be on borrowed time.

    The mood we are expressing here as a group of tech enthusiasts, many of whom are at least somewhat positively disposed towards them, is something Microsoft needs to understand. If Microsoft can't hold our respect and interest they are gone. A dead company walking. Sad.

  45. Leon Ioannides

    So it's clear that many are upset with Groove going away, but I think this is a positive step *ducks and goes to find cover* but yeh, consider this

    • For too long MS has tried (and failed) to be all things, and the broad suite of apps/tech has meant that it does lots of things so-so (not great)
    • Apple/Google have similar challenges, they do mobile+hardware/search great and the other ares of their portfolios struggle to compete with the same level of success.

    I think MS's transition to a cloud provider is nothing short of amazing, especially considering so many people wrote them off (can you remember the days where it was, MS is dead in the water because Windoze ect...)

    The good thing here is that they're playing to their strengths! Cloud, Office, Windows (at least I think), and Developer experience (say what you want about UWP, but in terms of dev platforms and support - MS blows Google/Apple out of the water, especially now with the expansion in oss/linux/containerized apps, the list goes on).

    Now that means they've sadly had to let some of the portfolio go (Groove, Zune, Mobile), and despite people wanting them to get back into these areas, the question we need to ask is WHY? If Microsoft can partner with another excellent provider who plays to their strengths (e.g. Spotify) then let them both ride the wave of success in their respective areas, and let Google/Apple do their thing. Right now there might be gaps in what Spotify offers, but it's not unreasonable to think that in the future these gaps will be filled.

    At the end of the day this lets them redirect budget to areas of growth, which builds shareholder value, which gets them more money to invest... and who knows, maybe in the future Windows 10 S may become a success, but only if they can focus on the app store. Letting Spotify be THE music app in the store is much better than trying to compete with them, and at the same time asking Spotify to keep reinvesting in the app store (only Apple/Google have that luxury).

  46. AndBingoWasHis

    I've been through Zune/Zune Music Pass, Windows Home Server, Windows Phone, OneDrive unlimited (lol)... Learned my lesson.

  47. gjsmyth

    I cannot understand why they are keeping Groove in Windows 10 "for playback" given that Windows Media Player is ALSO included in Windows 10 installation.

    This is so utterly disappointing.

  48. jpwalters

    I feel a little bit bamboozled by Microsoft for yet another $9.99 here on this latest "transition" -- I've been a hold out on Groove Pass for quite a while, and then was enticed by the recent offer last (September) month of buy one month get two months free. I decided to bite on this offer and give it a try. However, it seems like they just pulled the carpet from beneath my feet. OK $9.99 is no big deal, but it seems a bit disingenuous.

    This is the third time in recent memory. Purchased a Microsoft Band 2, and although the device broke on me at least twice, I continued to stick with it. I actually loved and used the device, and despite it's issues, I thought they had something of substance here, and then they pulled out of the market.

    I bought the Nokia 950XL, and still love it -- obviously waiting for what inevitably will be a new choice of Android phone, but still disappointed by what I still regard as a superior phone OS. Of course I recognize that means nothing without apps, and I seemingly agree with Paul that had the Android Bridge came out, it would have saved the phone but killed the Windows Store. I'm still not entirely convinced it can be saved.

    My point is not to complain, but as Satya Nadella and Microsoft enters and exits markets seemingly at a nauseating pace, it seems like a lot of us are left as collateral damage. I'm not an Apple fan, but their "exits" from markets, seems a lot less disruptive. I totally get that the numbers don't add up, and rather than perpetuating the inevitable, chopping the arm off to save the body makes sense. It seems though, that their exits are not only abrupt, but sometimes even premature.

    But as Microsoft tries to figure out and navigate where it belongs in the marketplace, isn't getting bit over and over, make loyal customers like us less likely to make a leap of faith when it comes to new products down the road? Does Microsoft have a looming customer loyalty issue ahead? That is, does hitting "refresh" too many times have detrimental effects?

    I certainly would feel more skittish getting behind some future technology like mixed reality (HoloLens), knowing that Microsoft's policy seems to be push it for 12-18 months and if it doesn't work out, they'll bail.

    • bbold

      In reply to jpwalters:

      Agreed! I'm def skiddish. After Microsoft dropped my amazing Band and Windows Phone, I was left holding a Surface Book that I was an early adopter of that could cook eggs in my backpack it was so dang hot, and now THIS? You've got to be kidding :/ As a 20 year Mac user before I switched to Windows 10 ecosystem about 2 years ago, I am definitely most likely going back to Macintosh.

      • jpwalters

        In reply to bbold:

        Definitely! It's disappointing because the device was so innovative and exciting. It made many willing to take a risk. I'm not sure what's up with the quality issues. I think some of it is that overall they are "new" to hardware in the traditional sense (although Xbox has been around for at least 7 years). Sticking it out and working through the somewhat displeasing experience shouldn't be done, but a lot of people do it because they want Microsoft to succeed and they are committed. However -- it appears not only is it not a two way street, but I take issue with the ease at which they "cut and run". Surface RT was another example of this. Sort of in an out of the market with a single product -- Orphaned pretty quickly with no reasonable upgrade path. Hope you'd consider looking at a Yoga Thinkpad Carbon, or an HP before going back to Apple, but if you did certainly would understand why. I had an iPhone 4. It was a great device, but the lock-in, and the poor direction I thought iOS was going in made me jump ship.

  49. Dan Francis

    Finally! It is a return to what Groove used to be, the music app in windows, before someone shoehorned a music streaming service into it. I imagine the only reason they changed the name to Groove was so they could sell it but never found a buyer. I hope they change the name back. I use Spotify for streaming but their UI is atrocious.

  50. Maelstrom

    I understand the competitive reasons. What I do not like there (and not just because I'm/was a Groove Music subscriber) is the underlying message sent to consumers. So, what consumers-related service/product is next? And, worse, what has become of Nadella's mission statement to "empower every person and every organization on the planet to achieve more.”?! Here, I'm less empowered and will achieve less...

  51. dontbe evil

    congrats nadella ... maybe if you’d try to advertise, marketing your stuff? or ad some family plan? how do you expect people to use the service otherwise?

  52. PanamaVet

    Their announcement redefines, no, reinforces what "Excited" means for the Microsoft brand.

    Any suggestions for an Emo to mark "Microsoft Gets Excited" on their product lifecycle charts?

    Microsoft converts goodwill to cash too often for my liking. I hope they enjoy spending mine.

  53. Tony Barrett

    It may just be a lame, little used music streaming service, but this is just another nail for Microsoft's consumer ambitions. It all adds up, and MS closing this service, no matter how they spin it, will generate more negative press for their overall consumer ambitions - more than Groove itself ever did. All people will hear are MS have closed this or shutdown that, and do MS really expect people to then go out and *buy* whatever they try in mobile next?

    Look, none of us are rocket scientists, but I think a handful of people here could probably run Microsoft better than they're doing at the moment.

    • Jhambi

      In reply to ghostrider:

      Negative press ? I would say your average Joe samsung/iphone user didnt even know Groove music pass existed. To me cutting a loss leader makes sense and probably should have been done a while ago. I applaud whoever made the decision to pull the plug.

  54. Dan1986ist

    Focusing on the streaming service part of Groove Music here, didn't Microsoft settle with record labels and artists a couple years back concerning payout of mechanical license royalties? Could the total cost of these royalties be a reason why the streaming feature is being dropped?

  55. TroyTruax

    I dumped my groove music pass about the time I dumped my windows phone. I switched to Amazon. It's where I buy all my media anyway. They have a storage locker offering for my 800+ cds and they have an app on roku that l lets me play music over my main sound system.

  56. SDreamer

    This just in, Microsoft drops Windows for Android >.> /sarcasm-sorta

  57. sjgibb99

    MS seem to be accelerating their slow down in the consumer space. Their business offerings on Office365 keep getting better all the time, meanwhile consumer products and services are falling by the wayside.

    Disappointing news as I enjoy the app and service.

  58. miguelgigante

    Now that they are no longer in their own streaming subscription business, maybe Microsoft will open the Groove app up so other services (Spotify, Deezer, Google Play Music/YouTube Red, etc.) can be incorporated into the player. I really like the Groove app for playing back my local files but I hate the Deezer UWP app. I use it but I hate it's limitations. I was always a little jealous that Groove subscribers could integrate their local music with their streaming content. My guess is if they do this at all it will only open up to Spotify, as that is their new partner. And considering Google's support for Microsoft's products in the past, I doubt they would ever allow their service to be accessed through Groove. Would be nice, though.

  59. gregsedwards

    What the actual f...?! Oh, come on, Microsoft.

  60. ben55124

    What about previous purchases -- still able to download? Not a big deal for me, but curious. Would be nice if they offered to transfer purchases to your choice of Google/Amazon/Apple.

    Who would still buy movies/tv/ebooks from MS? Fool me once...

  61. Rob.Federici

    If Groove offered a family plan I would absolutely still be using the service. Unfortunately it doesn't so of course I switched to Spotify.

  62. Louis Brauer

    Sounds so untrue. I forced myself on Groove the last few weeks, leaving Spotify. Spending hours with migrating playlists. Finally getting along with Groove and now that. As if I knew, a few weeks ago I commented here when Microsoft threw out free vouchers to new customers, I said, this looks like the end of Groove. And so be it. Amen.

  63. prettyconfusd

    Oh my God. So they built a service that actually does rival Spotify (trust me, I've used both over the past year and prefer Groove) along with an app that runs it all really well across all platforms.

    And they're canning it? With no option to continue using the Groove app to access Spotify - which has a lousy Windows app and less features (especially when it comes to local and cloud play)?

    And I only have 3 months to sort all this out?! I've got 8 years of music pass to deal with here...

    Oh, and I'm paid up till next August.

    Sigh. ?

  64. jjaegers

    I think MS is committed to XBOX and Windows Gaming in the consumer space but I would imagine all other services in that space are in danger of disappearing. Knowing they just added Phil to the leadership group I don't see them killing off gaming anytime soon... and I think the Mixed Reality stuff will be a big deal for gaming as well... and I can see Mixer hanging around. But you can probably say good bye to Movies & TV soon... no good reason to keep that around either... and I would think they would ditch the book offering in the store as well over time (does anyone buy books on Windows?)

  65. Daekar

    To be honest, I'm OK with this. They never tried to make Groove Music Pass competitive, and this is better.

    If they allow you to upload your own tracks to Spotify I might consider it, but right now Google Music is king to me. Can upload my collection, stream it on whatever device I want, cache songs for offline play, and access their streaming radio stations ad-supported. It's just a better solution, and this is coming from someone who doesn't like Google.

    • Orin

      In reply to Daekar:

      Seeing as Microsoft is using the verb "partnering", I wonder if Spotify would / could bake in Groove's ability to play music stored in OneDrive into Spotify. That would solve the one problem that seems to be the only common complaint I see against Spotify. Until then, I'll continue to use Spotify for music I don't own and Groove for music I do own.

      • Daekar

        In reply to Orin:

        It would be great to see that functionality come to Spotify. I would probably get a family plan from them if they allowed OneDrive streaming/caching.

        If they would allow me (in the Groove for Android app) to cache tracks on my Android phone's SD card so I don't have to stream everything, I could use it as you describe. You can't even put tracks manually on the phone memory and have them play from local storage. Guess I need to buy a 128GB phone next time and not worry about it.

  66. T182

    Could this be a prelude to MS buying Spotify?

  67. lprell

    Not that surprising... Sad, though, that Groove app (one of the most beautifuly done on W10) is now relegated to play local files. That's a shame.

  68. fishnet37222

    Since I keep all my music on an external RAID unit, this has no effect on me.

  69. MutualCore

    Another dead consumer-facing service from Microsoft.

  70. jjaegers

    The YouTube Red inclusion and the 5 family accounts on my Google Play Music subscription keeps me locked in... I used Groove Music Pass for years... the lack of the family plan is what made me switch... but honestly... I watched a YouTube video without being logged into YouTube Red the other day and I can't imagine how people live without Red... having to watch video ads before everything on YouTube would be a major pain...

    Wonder what will happen if you used the MS Bing Rewards deal they just had a few weeks ago to get 3 months for 100 points... wonder if they will refund points of dollars or just nothing.

    • Stooks

      In reply to jjaegers:

      What ad's?

      There is a Chrome extension that blocks ads "Adblock for Youtube". I have been using it for at least two years. Also I don't see ads in youtube on Edge and the only extension I have on Edge is Ublock Orgin.

  71. michaelpatricehuber

    I guess it had to happen eventually. Still think the Groove Windows 10 app is the nicest music player available for desktop/tablet - clean, uncluttered UI, beautiful "now playing" screen with slideshow with pictures of artist (or option to see music video if available) etc. Spotify has a very busy UI on desktop. And iTunes is a complete mess.

  72. wolters

    I can't say I am surprised but a little shocked at the speed of this.

    I've been a Zune user since the start, so this will finally give me a reason to sever one of my 3 music services in my quest to narrow down to one. Might narrow down to just Amazon Music since it will work on most (not the XBOX) devices. But then, there is Spotify as well. I do like Google Music but can't use it on my Echo or XBOX.

    One thing I'll miss about Groove (Zune did it much better) is the awesome artist pictures that would swap in and out while listening to it full screen on the XBOX and PC.

    But the number one thing that will be missed is the OneDrive Music folder. I can do this with Amazon and Google Music but seemed to work better with Groove.

  73. Winner

    Microsoft should really focus on where they can be #1 or #2 without these poor other efforts. In that sense I think this was a good move. They've blown it by chasing Apple/iPod, Apple/phone, Google/search. At least Bing has some actual traction.

  74. Asgard

    "Additionally, Microsoft will stop selling music from the Windows Store. The software giant said, however, that it would continue to sell movies, TV, and ebook content from the store."

    The list of things to go next. Music is the biggest thing of all these... This is exactly the reason why I have not bought anything from the Store, including games. MS simply cant be trusted to have that stuff available tomorrow.

  75. navarac

    Not bothered by any Microsoft offering anymore. Get today - stagnate - and kill it - eventually. What's next then?

    BTW. Deleted the Groove app from the PC long ago. Film & TV next to go and just use VLC and Amazon.

    • wolters

      In reply to navarac:

      Not to beat a dead horse but here are the things I fully embraced, evangelized, and loved only to have it taken away by Microsoft:

      Zune, Kinect, Windows Media Center, Bing Food and Drink (loved the hands free page turning and entered 100's of my own recipes in the app), Windows Phone, Hubs in Windows Phone, Family Room in Windows Phone, Surface RT (not that I was a huge fan but that was scrapped), Microsoft BAND and now Groove. Did I miss anything? I doubt XBOX would be next but I wouldn't be surprised if it is sold eventually.

      • DarrellPrichard

        The Kin - although to be fair, that's as much (if not more) of Verizon's fault.In reply to navarac:

        Not to beat a dead horse but here are the things I fully embraced, evangelized, and loved only to have it taken away by Microsoft:

        Zune, Kinect, Windows Media Center, Bing Food and Drink (loved the hands free page turning and entered 100's of my own recipes in the app), Windows Phone, Hubs in Windows Phone, Family Room in Windows Phone, Surface RT (not that I was a huge fan but that was scrapped), Microsoft BAND and now Groove. Did I miss anything? I doubt XBOX would be next but I wouldn't be surprised if it is sold eventually.

      • daveevad

        In reply to wolters:

        You and me both my friend. It's any wonder why my friends and family pay any attention to my tech recommendations. Microsoft has made me look like a fool by touting ALL of the services/products you've mentioned. All that is left is OneDrive & Xbox, both of which are strong now but had some questionable moments not too long ago. Well, at least now I'll have a music service with a family plan.

  76. bluvg

    Been in this camp since MSN Music back in the day. Not sure who started the music subscription thing, but Microsoft was doing it for a long time before Apple and the rest. A sad day.

  77. bluvg

    This also seems somewhat sudden, given that they had been updating Groove frequently, even on mobile.

  78. emanon2121

    Another nail in the consumer side of Microsoft.

  79. Jeffery Commaroto

    Partner with Amazon or Google for bringing media (books, music, movies, TV shows, games, etc.) into Windows or hell they announced iTunes was coming to the store (is that still on?), partner with Apple. Windows is still the one non-Apple place to get all that iTunes content.

    This is not the business for Microsoft. Wise to start getting out of it.

  80. johnlavey

    I wonder if this is why Microsoft charged me another $10 October 1st for a subscription that was SUPPOSED to be $10 for six months when I paid August 29, 2017. Interesting.

    • gregsedwards

      In reply to johnlavey:

      So, I used that 6-month offer to get my teenaged son into Groove back in August. He got an email mid-September with two 3-month codes in it. Of course, they went to his junk folder, and I only found them yesterday (after I noticed a $10 charge on my card for October). When I tried to apply them to extend his subscription until at least the end of the year, they were declined. The Groove announcement did mention that codes could no longer be redeemed. :(

  81. ponsaelius

    Microsoft retrenchment in consumer moves to another phase.

    • Chris_Kez

      In reply to ponsaelius:

      Yep. It makes me wonder why they bothered to spend the money to buy the original Groove app just over eighteen months ago. Shutting down Groove Music Pass now is an admission that the whole strategy was a bad one. Nothing has fundamentally changed in the last two years, so what were they thinking in mid-2015 that made this all look like a good plan? Apple, Google and Spotify were all there already. The economics of music streaming (which are terrible) have been the same for a decade. Why didn't they just kill Xbox Music when they did the whole Windows Phone retrenchment? And why aren't they pulling the plug on TV and Movies? Are they waiting for a suitable "partner"?

    • timothyhuber

      In reply to ponsaelius:

      They never really committed to consumer. When Zune launched, a music pass subscription model was still relatively new and a real differentiator from the iTunes store, but it was never part of the conversation. I can't help but wonder if there was a fatal weakness in the in-fighting and toxic culture of Microsoft which kept it from being marketed and supported like it needed to be.

  82. feek

    I think this officially puts the writing on the wall that Microsoft are not interested in offering consumer services

    • jwpear

      In reply to feek:

      Definitely gives me pause on purchasing an Xbox One X. For all I know, they're plotting the shut down of Xbox right now. Why would anyone trust Microsoft with any consumer facing product or service? They have continually shown that they cannot be trusted to not abandon their consumer customers.

      • wolters

        In reply to jwpear:

        it gives me pause not only because of their uncertain consumer end but do I really need an XBOX? I use it primarally for media. With my move to Android, Google Home and Google Assistant, I mighr benefit more from NVIDIA Shield since it had Android TV and Chromecast...helps with "flow."

    • wolters

      In reply to feek:

      Truly, I am wondering...I used the XBOX One for Media mostly and I don't mind the cost of it as a media device, especially running my satellite TV through it. But is it going to be worth investing in the XBOX One X if too, their consumer division, may be up in the air in 5-10 years?

      • feek

        In reply to wolters:

        Yep, similar for me, and i wonder the same

      • Awhispersecho

        In reply to wolters:

        Their consumer division will be completely gone in 5 years and Windows itself will be on it's last legs. Xbox will be split off or sold off and the next iteration of Xbox after the X won't be hardware at all. Instead it will be a service available on PC, MAC and Android/Chrome OS.

        This company will never recover enough to stay relevant in the long term. Noone under 20 years old gives a damn about MS or Windows. Their loyal fans are now leaving in droves and that includes me. Nadella has painted them into a tiny corner that they can never get out of and it will lead to them losing the 1 market they still think they can count on in Enterprise.

        I work for a major international bank that uses Chrome, gives out Android phones to it's employees and has dedicated people in multiple countries doing active testing on the viability of Google docs as well as other free services. Outlook is the only thing that seems safe...for now. MS is done and as far as I'm concerned, they deserve it.

        And I do wonder about Nadella, he sure is making it easy for Google and Apple. Almost a little too easy. But hey, he has a book he can be proud of.

  83. Chris_Kez

    No mention of the iOS/Android apps here or in the original Microsoft blog post. Unless I'm missing something these Groove apps are now just a front-end to your OneDrive Music folder. I wonder how long Microsoft will maintain these.

  84. hrlngrv

    MSFT will continue to sell movies, TV and ebooks from the Store . . . for how much longer?

    Then again maybe the margins on these other media are sufficiently higher than on music that they make economic sense for MSFT while music doesn't. Or the competition isn't as intense as it is for music.

    As for playing back locally stored music, my ancient copy of Winamp and VLC have graphic equalizers, and given my poor hearing, that's a big help. Groove may not yet be on its death bed, but it's in the taxi to the nursing home, never to reemerge.

  85. Chris_Kez

    On the plus side, this will free up time for the excellent development team behind the Groove app; their help is needed on other apps.

  86. Soundtweaker

    This is good news for me since I only listen to my local music and stream from OneDrive.

    Getting rid of all those useless tabs in the app will be nice.

  87. Elan Gabriel

    I'm starting to realize I'm a victim of abusive behaviour. Let's just make it simple, cancel all non Azure products and be done and over with already. Just please stop saying you care and/or listen to your customers.

    • Winner

      In reply to egab:

      @egab, @scumdogmillionaire - condolences, man. Some of us spotted this behavior YEARS ago. We were called trolls.

    • scumdogmillionaire

      In reply to egab:

      Died laughing at that because that's exactly how I feel. The list of products/services I bought into from MS is lengthy but I shant do it any longer.

      But you're right, assume that anything not Azure (which I use for my business), Office and Windows Desktop can just be killed at any moment and stop investing in these things. I love my Surface Book but I wonder how long that line even has left honestly.

      But hell, with Visual Studio on Mac now, I have little keeping me on Windows to be honest other than that I prefer it.

    • hrlngrv

      In reply to egab:

      Classic mistake: you believe MSFT considers consumers its customers.

      MSFT does listen to its enterprise customers, carefully too.

      • skane2600

        In reply to hrlngrv:

        You might be able to make the case that MS is more concerned with their enterprise customers than their consumer customers, but they obviously have products and services focused on consumers.

        • hrlngrv

          In reply to skane2600:

          I question the clarity and intensity of MSFT's focus on consumers. Xbox, sure, and that's why all Windows 10 PCs come with several Xbox subsystems, even for PC users who own no Xboxes and have no intention of ever buying or using an Xbox. Same goes for Candy Crush, March of Empires, Minecraft and all the other monetizing MSFT inflicts on Windows PC users with no interest in any of them.

          MSFT focuses on consumers like a cat focuses on song birds.

        • shameermulji

          In reply to skane2600:

          With the exception of gaming (Xbox), that is absolutely the case.

          • skane2600

            In reply to shameermulji:

            The existence of a single exception renders the generalization false, but even your narrower claim is incorrect unless you claim that Windows Home and Office 365 Home are Enterprise products.

            • skane2600

              In reply to skane2600:

              I think some people here are just infatuated with down-voting. hringrv and I are having an argument but I'm not down-voting his comments. I generally don't down-vote comments just because I disagree with them. I usually reserve it for comments that involve personal attacks on somebody else.

            • hrlngrv

              In reply to skane2600:

              Even though the Office 365 Home (and Home & whatever perpetual licenses) EULAS ban commercial use, wanna bet how many home PCs running Office 365 Home are being used for work-from-home? Next time you're driving your car weaving around double-parked cars you could ponder the average human's strict avoidance of all that's illegal.

              • skane2600

                In reply to hrlngrv:

                When did this become a discussion about licenses? Office 365 Home is a consumer product regardless whether some users violate the EULAS or not. You already admitted your original claim was just "Rhetorical exaggeration" so why are scratching at straws trying to prove otherwise?

                • hrlngrv

                  In reply to skane2600:

                  I figure Office 365 Home/Personal are used far more often for work from home than true personal use, especially in the US where most primary and secondary public schools have children using Google web apps rather than Office.

                • skane2600

                  In reply to hrlngrv:

                  You and I can only speculate about how Office 365 Home is used since we have no data to come to a definitive conclusion, but whatever the truth is, it has nothing to do with the fact the MS created it as a consumer product. We have established three products MS created and continues to support for consumers so clearly they consider consumers among their customers. If you're not convinced by now, you never will be. I'm sure we'll argue about something else, but I've proven my case and I'm not interested in discussing it any further.

  88. jd80

    Just planting a seed here => What if Groove became a front end for Spotify?

    I mean... there is mostly no downside to it, no license for the music nor management of the subscriptions it's all handled by Spotify and people can keep playing local and onedrive music. Of course Radio and all that stuff might no work to same as before, but for most of Groove users it would be a win-win situation.

    Or they could also create a kind of addon for Spotify introducing Groove strenghts to the platform...

    What do you think?

    PS: There is alrady a comment/suggestion about that in the feedback hub of my region, if you don't find it maybe consider creating one in yours.

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