Microsoft Tackles Chromebook in New Ads

Microsoft Tackles Chromebook in New Ads

Microsoft this week published two ads in which it compares Windows 10 PCs to Chromebooks. The interesting bit? One targets education, as you might expect. But the other targets businesses.

And that is rather telling, I think. Microsoft is in the midst of losing the US education market to Chromebooks, and the popularity of these simple and inexpensive devices is starting to spread internationally. But less well known is that Chromebooks are starting to make headway with businesses as well. And that, of course, is Microsoft’s core customer base.

I mentioned that latter phenomenon back in April in The PC Market Just (Barely) Bounced Off the Bottom (Premium). “IDC noted that ‘the commercial PC market [in the US only] came out strong mostly backed by the growth of Chromebooks’,” I wrote. “Chromebook penetration in business is an interesting story—and I’d love to see more data there—but remember that big growth is easy when you’re small. And Chromebook sales are very small.”

But a threat is a threat. And these ads show that Microsoft finally taking it seriously, at least publicly. The timing of these ads has a lot to do with the release this week of the Surface Laptop, which you may recall is the first computer to include Windows 10 S. It’s also the only decent computer to include this system: The others we’ve seen so far are education-bound stripper PCs. So the ads focus instead on Windows 10 Pro, which is kind of interesting. Perhaps because the Windows 10 S to Pro upgrade is free during 2017.

So let’s start with the ad for education. Here, Microsoft says that Windows 10 Pro better meets the needs of today’s students and teachers because it is supported on a more diverse array of device types. The ad also highlights new Microsoft Office apps, like Sway, with which many users are probably still unfamiliar, and that Windows and Office support touch, pen and desktop modes. Windows 10 features like Ink, Sticky Notes, and Cortana are also highlighted. Finally, the ad touches on security; “Windows 10 is a virtual fortress,” it claims. I know. Ugh.

“When it comes to your OS, you have a choice,” the ad concludes. “Consider this: Windows 10 Pro offers better security, manageability, innovation, and value than Chrome.”

The business ad is perhaps more interesting, if only for the spectacle of watching Microsoft defend Windows 10 against the Chrome upstart. And it gets weird right away in describing the “years of research” that Microsoft has done into the device power-on experience, which it described as “superior.” But it then moves into familiar areas, touting Windows 10 features like Windows Ink, Sticky Notes, and Cortana, just like in the other video. But tailored for business use cases.

The security argument here is interesting as well. Compared to Chrome, the ad says, Windows 10 is “the most secure Windows ever” (well, sure), with Windows Hello, two-factor authentication support, and a more secure browser in Edge.

Then we get to value, an area where most might think that Chrome has the advantage. Nope. “You want a greater number of devices at a lower cost,” the ad intones. “No problem. Devices with the full Windows experience are available at affordable prices, all running full Windows, unlike Chrome, which allows only a select few devices to run all their apps.” That last bit is interesting, and is an allusion to Android apps on Chrome. Which is indeed a mess.

“Better value, security, and innovation” is the theme for this one. “There’s simply no comparison.”

It kind of makes me wonder why anyone would consider Chrome OS. Cough.


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  • Waethorn

    14 June, 2017 - 4:57 pm

    <p>Microsoft: "Our competition frightens us, so we have a much, more complicated solution that doesn't actually provide any real superior benefit. Unless you're willing to pay more, to make it even more complicated. Then it's superior. Because you're a school and you have unlimited money. All hail the almighty private school system dollar!"</p>

  • Waethorn

    14 June, 2017 - 5:03 pm

    <p> "<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Microsoft has done into the device power-on experience, which it described as “superior.”"</span></p><p><br></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Not sure how they call the Windows power-on experience as "superior". Here's a reality check: Chrome OS: 10 seconds or less (usually less) on bootup – EVERY bootup, even for OS updates. ON EVERY MACHINE.</span></p><p><br></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">"But it then moves into familiar areas, touting Windows 10 features like Windows Ink, Sticky Notes, and Cortana, just like in the other video. But tailored for business use cases."</span></p><p><br></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">I don't know of ANY businesses using these. Smaller businesses just want to get their work done, and they do so on cheap commodity machines. Cortana is something that few people, including consumers, even recognize. Windows Ink is only on high-end pen-input machines. The number of machines in use or sold in the low-cost consumption Windows tablet segment that include stylus input is barely a blip on the radar. Sticky Notes can't be organized or indexed like Google Keep. And large-scale enterprises will shuck all of this.</span></p>

  • Waethorn

    14 June, 2017 - 5:04 pm

    <p>"<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">a more secure browser in Edge."</span></p><p><br></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Tell me how a browser that's updated only twice a year is more secure than one that is updated every six weeks?</span></p>

    • Thomas Parkison

      14 June, 2017 - 5:29 pm

      <blockquote><a href="#125671"><em>In reply to Waethorn:</em></a></blockquote><p>Well technically it gets updated every Patch Tuesday with security patches. As for more than just security updates? Yeah, I get it.</p>

      • Waethorn

        14 June, 2017 - 5:32 pm

        <blockquote><a href="#125695"><em>In reply to Thomas Parkison:</em></a></blockquote><p>Not exactly. "Patch Tuesday" isn't set in stone anymore. Does Edge get updated via cumulative updates? How do I know? – Microsoft doesn't even provide information about updates at all besides a one-line description like "security and experience benefits". How do you even know that an update for Windows even applies to Edge at all???</p>

    • normcf

      14 June, 2017 - 6:49 pm
      • Waethorn

        15 June, 2017 - 12:03 am

        <blockquote><a href="#125717"><em>In reply to normcf:</em></a></blockquote><p>So Microsoft lies too, re: "Edge is the most secure browser".</p>

        • hrlngrv

          Premium Member
          15 June, 2017 - 12:20 pm

          <p><a href="#125776"><em>In reply to Waethorn:</em></a></p><blockquote><em>So Microsoft lies too, . . .</em></blockquote><p>Was it ever otherwise?</p>

    • Jack Smith

      15 June, 2017 - 8:52 am

      <blockquote><a href="#125671"><em>In reply to Waethorn:</em></a></blockquote><p>Agree. Edge was the most hacked browser at Pawned 2017. It was hacked the fastest and the most.</p><p><br></p><h1>"Microsoft Edge: Most Hacked Browser At Pwn2Own 2017"</h1><p><br></p><p>,33940.html</p><p><br></p><p>But why are you being downvoted? People can not deal with reality?</p>

  • wolters

    Premium Member
    14 June, 2017 - 5:05 pm

    <p>I am in contact with many of the IT Directors at local school districts. They are ALL in with Chrome and Google and in High School, Apple devices. In fact, most are having "Google Blast" meetings with this graphic:</p><p><br></p><p><img src=""></p><p>No Microsoft to be seen at all…</p><p><br></p><p>I am with you Paul on "<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">It kind of makes me wonder why anyone would consider Chrome OS. Cough." Microsoft has a battle on its hands. </span></p>

    • Waethorn

      14 June, 2017 - 5:19 pm

      <blockquote><a href="#125672"><em>In reply to wolters:</em></a></blockquote><p>What is that last icon?</p>

      • jimchamplin

        Premium Member
        14 June, 2017 - 6:19 pm

        <blockquote><a href="#125682"><em>In reply to Waethorn:</em></a></blockquote><p>Google Play?</p>

        • Waethorn

          14 June, 2017 - 6:29 pm

          <blockquote><a href="#125705"><em>In reply to jimchamplin:</em></a></blockquote><p>Nope. It's a multi-coloured triangle with no background.</p>

      • wolters

        Premium Member
        14 June, 2017 - 7:01 pm

        <blockquote><a href="#125682"><em>In reply to Waethorn:</em></a></blockquote><p>YouTube I believe. They were also focusing on YouTube for education. </p>

        • Waethorn

          14 June, 2017 - 11:40 pm

          <blockquote><a href="#125720"><em>In reply to wolters:</em></a></blockquote><p>YouTube is usually a rectangle. Haven't seen a particular education service though.</p>

  • Waethorn

    14 June, 2017 - 5:07 pm

    <p>"<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Microsoft says that Windows 10 Pro better meets the needs of today’s students and teachers because it is supported on a more diverse array of device types"</span></p><p><br></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Um….what???</span></p><p><br></p><p></p><p><br></p><p>THAT'S not diverse?!?</p><p><br></p><p>How many PC's does Microsoft make again? 4?</p>

    • Chris

      Premium Member
      14 June, 2017 - 11:00 pm

      <blockquote><a href="#125675"><em>In reply to Waethorn:</em></a></blockquote><p>Most of those Chromebooks are laptops, or thin PCs, though they do have a few All-In-Ones, and a couple of Flip laptops (a convertible tablet). I haven't seen any 2-in-1 laptops (a laptop with a detachable tablet, which Windows has), or convertible tablets where the screen can swing around and fold back over the keyboard. So MS has that going for them (mind you, I'm not defending them, just pointing out that you are slightly wrong).</p><p><br></p><p>Also, none of those are produced my Google, so they have precisely 0. All of those Chromebooks are produced by the same OEMs that make the same devices for Windows.</p><p><br></p><p>(All of that may be pedantic, but I don't like things that are inherently wrong. Also, I haven't watched the MS ads, and I'm not going to, because they just don't seem to get them right. They appear to be trying a PC vs Mac thing, but not doing it how Apple would. MS' marketing sucks)</p>

      • Waethorn

        15 June, 2017 - 12:02 am

        <blockquote><a href="#125772"><em>In reply to Chris:</em></a></blockquote><p>They ABSOLUTELY have convertible 2-in-1's. The Acer Chromebook R 11 and R 13, a new Flip 11, the Asus Flip series, and the new Samsung ones are all convertibles, among others.</p><p><br></p><p>Nobody does pivot hinges on any laptops anymore, and the biggest complaint of tablets is that they ship without keyboards (for ones that don't). The other problem is that detachables are top-heavy (Surface Book), or are not "lap-friendly" or have poor keyboards (Surface Pro). This is what OEM's have already seen with Windows PC's so they're rightfully hesitant about releasing any Chromebooks like that. Even so, there are a couple of detachables in the works by Asus and Dell in the Chromium device trees.</p><p><br></p><p>Still though, Microsoft says the device types aren't "diverse", yet there are 4 main device types and Microsoft only makes 2 (I don't consider a Surface Pro to be in a different category from a Surface Book, since I don't know anybody that buys them without keyboards). Also, Microsoft's own devices are WAAAY too expensive for average users, even though they keep attempting to fill out the product line, so, yes, it's pretty bad marketing.</p>

      • Waethorn

        15 June, 2017 - 12:07 am

        <blockquote><a href="#125772"><em>In reply to Chris:</em></a></blockquote><p>BTW: I'm not criticizing you for pointing out that Google makes none of the devices – I'm just criticizing Microsoft's use of the term "diverse", when their own product line is not. It's hypocritical of them to judge that product line IMO.</p>

      • Jack Smith

        15 June, 2017 - 8:46 am

        <blockquote><a href="#125772"><em>In reply to Chris:</em></a></blockquote><p>There are several excellent Chromebook covertibles and new ones coming on the market. Not sure where you live that you are not seeing them. Personally replaced my wifes iPad with a Samsung Plus which is excellent. It was a little more than a iPad but she loves it!</p><p><br></p><p>Then you can get the Samsung Pro which is similar but a little more expensive but has Intel versus the Plus is ARM.</p><p><br></p><p>But there are a bunch of other convertible CBs. They are at various prices from a little over $200 on up.</p><p><br></p><p>What I find odd is you would suggest otherwise? BTW, this is NOT a new thing with CBs as there have been convertibles for a while now, they are super popular, several models, etc.</p><p><br></p><p>The R11 is an example and a nice machine but it is plastic. It is a tough decision to buy over a Acer 14 which are not a convertible but one of the best PCs I have ever purchased and then dirt cheap. They are all metal, thin, and incredible performance and can be had under $200 refurb. </p><p><br></p><p>You see, touch and use an Acer 14 and you would swear it was a $800 laptop. I am completely serious</p>

  • Waethorn

    14 June, 2017 - 5:09 pm

    <p>"<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">the ad touches on security; “Windows 10 is a virtual fortress,” it claims. I know. Ugh."</span></p><p><br></p><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">How much malware is there for Chrome OS right now? Do you need more than 1 finger to count it on, Microsoft?</span></p>

    • Jack Smith

      15 June, 2017 - 8:43 am

      <blockquote><a href="#125676"><em>In reply to Waethorn:</em></a></blockquote><p>Trouble for MS is</p><p><br></p><p>"Microsoft Edge gets pwned, Google Chrome is “unhackable”"</p><p><br></p><p>This is from Pawned 2017. Then when you have MS lying it just makes it that much worse for MS. Why NOT fix the issue instead?</p><p><br></p>

  • Bats

    14 June, 2017 - 5:10 pm

    <p>OMG…that's it? That's the best Microsoft can do?</p><p>It's the same old rhetoric. Boring. Everything in this ad that Paul talks about… one cares about it. The bottom line, Chromebooks overall cheaper to buy and most importantly cheaper to maintain. Microsoft stupidly omits the maintain part.</p><p>In addition, cheaper Windows computers have been around for years! Remember Paul's endorsement of the Chromebook killer, the HP Stream? He said that he bought it for one of his kids years ago and later he tells us that the same kid is now using a Chromebook and he loves it.&nbsp;</p><p>It will be interesting to see if Microsoft will spend the same amount of advertising dollars that they did with Windows Phone. I remember a few years ago, all I saw on TV was commercials for Windows Phone. I remember the song Brave coming on all the time, and who can forget the wedding fight commercial. Let's not forget all the in-place advertisements in tv shows like Dallas and Elementary, where the characters primarily used Windows Phone. The bottom line is, did people listen and take to heart Microsoft's message from that barrage of commercials promoting Windows Phone? The answer is No. The same thing will happen here.</p><p>Everything about Chromebooks is easy. Everything about Windows is hard.</p><p>The education is not moving away from Google, because it's just so much cheaper to maintain, Update, and Use. As for Microsoft, a huge part of their revenue is the licensing of thousand dollar servers,seats, and support. I am sure that everyone who has worked in the real world knows what happens when the mail server goes down, right? Or how about when the network drive is not showing up on your computer? Or how about when your Windows computer runs so sloooooooooow or drive is not working? The answer: IT comes along and fixes or replaces your drive and hours later, you are back in business with have wasted so much time. With Chromebooks and Google, none of those problems exist.&nbsp;</p><p>For businesses, I can see Chromebooks and Google being the perfect solution for small business, not unless we are talking about a POS environment that's system is dependent on a Windows Environment. Other than that Chromebooks is so much easier to use and so much easier to maintain. Plust, who needs Windows Ink? Windows Ink is only good for artists and not for the other 99% of computer users. It's really a no-brainer. Not unless you are a business that loves to throw away money. LOL…even Paul Thurrott doesn't even use a pen for his blogging.</p><p>As for Windows Hello,….it's slow. It's just like Samsung's technology for Android phones a couple of years ago.&nbsp;</p><p>Google must be laughing at their faces.</p>

    • mrdrwest

      14 June, 2017 - 7:39 pm

      <blockquote><a href="#125681"><em>In reply to Bats:</em></a></blockquote><p><br></p><p>So drives installed in Chromebook are immune to failure?! Microsoft is done…done!</p><p><br></p>

      • Waethorn

        15 June, 2017 - 12:19 am

        <blockquote><a href="#125722"><em>In reply to mrdrwest:</em></a></blockquote><p>No, but when you use Chromebooks as intended – with cloud services – your data is safe. When you use a Windows computer, your data is naturally stored on the internal drive. Cloud storage is secondary.</p><p><br></p><p>If you buy any Chrome OS device at retail, you get 15GB of Google Drive storage free with a Google account (not exclusive to Chromebooks – that's available to anyone on any computer) PLUS 100GB free for 2 years added to that. Google Photos has a free unlimited photo storage option that compresses photos down using a new storage algorithm. It's lossy compression, but barely noticeable except in extreme zoom-in comparisons. You also get free storage of 10,000 of your own songs on Google Play Music that you can use to stream or download from, on any compatible device.</p><p><br></p><p>When you compare that to Microsoft, they give you 5GB of storage for free, with no special or free photo or music storage, and they want you to cough up money for OneDrive. And Office Online is pretty weak compared to G Suite.</p><p><br></p><p>ALL Chrome OS devices use SSD's, so they are pretty much shock-proof, not that you'll be storing much on them anyway.</p>

    • hrlngrv

      Premium Member
      14 June, 2017 - 9:47 pm

      <p><a href="#125681"><em>In reply to Bats:</em></a></p><blockquote>. . . Microsoft stupidly omits the maintain part. . . .</blockquote><p>Not stupid at all. Shrewd verging on dishonest. Windows maintenance is much more complicated, thus more expensive, than Chrome OS maintenance. The less said about Windows's weaknesses the better for MSFT.</p>

      • Jack Smith

        15 June, 2017 - 8:40 am

        <blockquote><a href="#125763"><em>In reply to hrlngrv:</em></a></blockquote><p>I completely agree but how in the world could you be downvoted? Have people never used Windows?</p><p><br></p><p>I buy a Chromebook and hand it to one of my kids and never hear back. </p>

        • hrlngrv

          Premium Member
          15 June, 2017 - 12:18 pm

          <p><a href="#125816"><em>In reply to Jack Smith:</em></a></p><p>Downvotes without replies mean people disagree but can't come up with counterarguments or won't take the time.</p>

  • normcf

    14 June, 2017 - 5:22 pm

    <p>These ads, like the scroogled ads, are likely to bring more attention to chromebooks from a lot of people that never knew they existed.</p>

  • argrubbs

    Premium Member
    14 June, 2017 - 5:24 pm

    <p>As someone who works in IT for a school system I can already tell you that Microsoft is not prevalent in our classrooms. Google and Apple are the majority here and the only use of Windows is by the IT staff it seems. Microsoft has lost the battle for the classroom.</p>

    • cayo

      16 June, 2017 - 7:12 pm

      <blockquote><a href="#125694"><em>In reply to argrubbs:</em></a></blockquote><p><br></p><p>So people who need to do something on the computers…they can't use Google and Apple toys? The same will also be true for the kids, as soon as they leave the school system. </p><p><br></p>

  • F4IL

    14 June, 2017 - 5:35 pm

    <p>W10 Pro for schools huh?</p><p>How long has it been for W10 S, a month?</p><p>Is it done already?</p>

    • hrlngrv

      Premium Member
      14 June, 2017 - 9:39 pm

      <p><a href="#125697"><em>In reply to F4IL:</em></a></p><p>Windows 10 S is for the future when schools have lost all their optical disks for software they licensed (perpetually) years ago so the only cost to keep using them is time spent uninstalling from old machines and installing onto new machines. Thus the huge advantage Windows 10 Pro would have over S in the US education sector. HOWEVER, why Pro rather than Education?</p>

  • Jorge Garcia

    14 June, 2017 - 5:58 pm

    <p>Newsflash – normal people don't care for either one. Had Google simply made a version (or better yet, a predictive and/or user-selectable "mode") of Android that worked 90% like full Windows does, THAT would have taken a much larger bite of legacy Windows by now. ChromeOS feels childish, and lacks the Apps people are used to on their phone, so it is pointless to many normies. This isn't just my opinion, Samsung has shown that they are aware of the Desktop OS apathy as well. I happen to believe that many people would, in fact very much enjoy having a semi-casual, semi-pro laptop, but one that din't come with a full bloat, mobile-app lacking OS, like legacy Windows or even MacOS.</p>

    • skane2600

      17 June, 2017 - 12:03 pm

      <blockquote><a href="#125699"><em>In reply to Jorge Garcia:</em></a></blockquote><p>Android was designed as a mobile OS and if Google had tried from the beginning to make it 90% like full Widows it would have crashed and burned. It's 2005 tech, not 2017. But from a user's point of view I don't see the benefit of making an OS that is 90% like Windows when you own a PC that is 100% like Windows. We can imagine all kinds of perfect OS's that do whatever we want on every device but actually being able to design and deliver such an OS is a different matter.</p>

  • Bdsrev

    14 June, 2017 - 7:00 pm

    <p>Cheapest always wins, price is the only thing that matters to people. Microsoft's only chance is matching Chromebooks on price. If they match Chromebooks on price, they will be fine</p>

    • hrlngrv

      Premium Member
      14 June, 2017 - 9:32 pm

      <p><a href="#125719"><em>In reply to Bdsrev:</em></a></p><p>In the business scenario, maintenance is often more expensive than PC purchase price. If Chromebooks and Chromeboxes are significantly cheaper and/or easier to maintain than Windows PCs, that'd be a bigger problem for MSFT.</p>

      • skane2600

        17 June, 2017 - 11:52 am

        <blockquote><a href="#125761"><em>In reply to hrlngrv:</em></a></blockquote><p>There are multiple criteria. In addition to price and maintenance, compatibility with existing systems is also a big factor. </p>

    • Jack Smith

      15 June, 2017 - 8:37 am

      <blockquote><a href="#125719"><em>In reply to Bdsrev:</em></a></blockquote><p>Assume you are including TCO (Total Cost of Ownership)? I have a huge family as in 8 kids and been moving them to Chromebooks and found the TCO to be greatly improved with Chromebooks over other solutions.</p><p><br></p><p>I am the family IT admin even though never applied for the job.</p><p><br></p><p>Personally I am a huge fan of Chromebooks.</p><p><br></p><p>BTW, we only use Windows now for hardcore gaming and nothing else. Now wish we could get hardcore gaming on ChromeOS.</p><p><br></p>

  • chaad_losan

    14 June, 2017 - 7:02 pm

    <p>No one is going to believe this. No one.</p>

  • robincapper

    14 June, 2017 - 7:57 pm

    <p>Any Device? WIndows 10 Pro on a phone?</p>

  • Mark from CO

    Premium Member
    14 June, 2017 - 8:05 pm

    <p>Paul:</p><p>Google is relentless. Microsoft has to be more relentless in the pursuit of these markets. It has not been relentless toward the education market and has taken the business market for granted (as has many analysts), until only recently.</p><p>I'll continue to argue, as I have for many, many months, that Microsoft has no safe business, even the cloud. It's competitors are agile and have more financial resources to compete. They want Microsoft's business. And to think, like many analysts seem to, that Microsoft has an unassailable position vis a vis the enterprise, is just plan naïve, fails to recognize the strategies of Apple and Google, and ignores the financial and technological skills they have.</p><p>Microsoft in the next 3-5 years is in for the fight for its life. It may not win.</p><p>Mark from CO</p>

  • hrlngrv

    Premium Member
    14 June, 2017 - 9:28 pm

    <p>Well, it the Pawn Stars ads of a few years back didn't kill off Chromebooks, surely these will. /s</p><p>In the business scenario, if all that's wanted is a thin client for remote virtual desktops, Windows 10 Pro is overkill.</p>

  • rafaelsolmaker

    14 June, 2017 - 10:22 pm

    <p>I don't know if these will stick, but the ads are good ones. The ads are actually pretty neat. It's nice to know that Microsoft went out of lethargy and started tackling Chrome.</p><p>As the guys already said, the front they need to fight is price and maintenance. If they manage to win those, bye bye ChromeOS (if we can even call that an OS). I suspect that Snapdragon 835-based 2'n'1 tablets, laptops and… cough…netbooks…. can perform well in this arena.</p><p>Let's see what happens next.</p>

  • Roger Ramjet

    14 June, 2017 - 10:24 pm

    <p>I thought of this for a moment, and I think it makes sense&nbsp;Microsoft would use pro rather than 10s for now(in edu). The&nbsp;10s is basically not ready yet to get into the ring with anybody because the necessary app support isn't (yet?) there. So, if they were to come out with a 10s comparison, it would be easy to shoot down.&nbsp;&nbsp; And I sorta understand the approach I think, these are basically talking points. For the most part, it will function as something for folks who were going to buy Microsoft anyway to use in their justifications to shoot down this new thing that is probably being aggressively marketed by Google with some army of sales people. </p><p>But Google has shown chops here. They are doing this particular business the way it ought to be done. It should appear to be a simple rule, but if you are going to attack an entrenched incumbent, you have to pick your spots. So they took Chromebooks and they took US education, and they have spent time developing that, and now that they have been very successful there, and only then, are they moving out wider.&nbsp; Compare that&nbsp;what&nbsp;Microsoft&nbsp;tried in mobile where they sought to attack incumbents frontally in very wide front (perhaps that was a bit different since they started the race together and only fell badly behind, easy for them to forget the pecking order as they came out with ever more new things to try).But the lesson is instructive:&nbsp;If others are entrenched (unless you come out with a revolutionary product that is lifecycles ahead), you have to appreciate that and concentrate your efforts on defensible niches with some differentiated offerings, wide frontal attacks on entrenched incumbents are fools errands.</p>

  • Ugur

    14 June, 2017 - 11:24 pm

    <p>On one side these ads are quite bad in my eyes. On the other, i see MS' problem. I mean windows allows to run desktop applications which are used in many, many work sectors. So yes, during education it would be extremely beneficial to use an OS and software on it which is then in lots of people's work life used daily.</p><p>Also besides general apps used in lots of work places, a lot of pro design and creation and productivity apps are only on windows, too.</p><p>But i get how that is not very easy to convey. They could pick a few examples though in a bunch of fields and show how those are used a lot and not available on Chromebooks.</p><p><br></p><p>Just going with such examples like " we got security down" is not a good idea imho, because it's just known that in terms of restrictive security, Windows can't compete with a chromebook. A chromebook basically has its main security aspects in a) one has most if not all of one's data in the cloud, not on the device and b) one can just reset the device at any moment very quickly and thanks to not having lots of valuable stuff on the device itself, it's no biggy to insta refresh the device (basically reset it back to factory settings).</p><p><br></p><p>That's just an aspects MS can't compete in due to the different nature of the setup where on windows people use lots of desktop applications which create local files (and then the user manually can put them on some cloud storage).</p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p>MS could counter that point in another way, for example by arguing for higher privacy by not putting all your stuff automatically on someone's cloud.</p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p>Anyway, yeah, different ways to argue for different pros and cons of the different platforms.</p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p>They way they did it in these ads though, yeah, not very convincing.</p>

    • Tony Barrett

      15 June, 2017 - 7:02 am

      <blockquote><a href="#125773"><em>In reply to Ugur:</em></a></blockquote><p>MS could counter the 'all your data in the cloud' argument, but that's exactly where they want you to store all your data too – just in Microsoft's cloud. It's easy to counter their counter argument. Data is king remember, and all the big tech companies want yours!</p>

      • Ugur

        15 June, 2017 - 8:00 am

        <blockquote><a href="#125804"><em>In reply to Tony Barrett:</em></a><em> Yeah, you're right. They basically would have to get rid of the ads stuff in Windows, then they could over time maybe consider differentiating their cloud offerings with a differentiated privacy kinda thing like Apple does, but would be tough to argue for while there are ads in more and more windows apps/services.</em></blockquote><p><br></p>

  • SherlockHolmes

    Premium Member
    15 June, 2017 - 12:12 am

    <p>LOL Windows 10 Pro outshines chrome. And then shows Edge logo. Very funny. </p>

  • Waethorn

    15 June, 2017 - 12:24 am

    <p>Let me just point this out:</p><p><br></p><p>Microsoft's own plans for Windows 10 state that their recommended school reset option is (get this…):. Break out a bunch of thumb drives for reinstall.</p><p><br></p><p>OMGSRSLYWTFROFLMAO</p>

  • wshwe

    15 June, 2017 - 6:37 am

    <p>I use Windows for my job and to play games. I also have a PS/4 and Xbox 360. </p><p><br></p><p>On the the hand my 2 nieces use Chromebooks, iPads and a Nintendo Wii. I don't think they even realize Windows exists. My 2 nieces are 10 and 13 years old.</p>

  • Tony Barrett

    15 June, 2017 - 7:04 am

    <p>Some of the content of these ads borders on slander. MS are treading a very thin line with that they're implying. With their education market slipping away, I just can't see schools who've already adoped Chromebooks switching (back) to Windows. All the same problems will still apply (and new ones with Win10S). ChromeOS solves a big problem schools have, so it will be interesting to see if Win10S has any real effect.</p><p>As for business, for lightweight terminals that just run web apps, or kiosk type devices, again, ChromeOS is well worth considering. I just don't think ChromeOS is there yet as a standard business type PC with everything Windows offers for corporates – mainly A/D, group policy etc. It's only a matter of time though I</p>

  • Jack Smith

    15 June, 2017 - 8:34 am

    <p>If you talking about your competition in your ad you have already lost.</p><p><br></p><p>Windows PC sales have declined the last decade and at the lowest point in 10 years. Google just had 38% YoY growth with the Chromebooks.</p><p><br></p><p>Those trend lines are pretty strong in opposite directions. 10 years creates a strong line and then 38% the other is a strong slope in the opposite direction. Without some crazy strong catalyst that is not going to change.</p><p><br></p><p>Then lump on top MS does NOT have mobile and Google has Android it just makes an already bad situation for MS that much worse.</p>

    • skane2600

      17 June, 2017 - 11:48 am

      <blockquote><a href="#125813"><em>In reply to Jack Smith:</em></a></blockquote><p>Rates can be misleading when comparing two products with very significant differences in raw number magnitudes. Despite a 38% growth in Chromebook sales, Windows PC sales are well over an order of magnitude higher. The 38% growth will begin to decline as the sales numbers increase. </p>

  • Ugur

    15 June, 2017 - 8:36 am

    <p>I thought about this topic some more in the meantime. Not just the topic of chromebooks getting used more in education in the US, but rather the topic of Android devices getting used more on the go worldwide than anything else and in general other devices used more in general.</p><p>Some then act like hey, that's doom and gloom for Windows because what you use in education days is what you use the rest of your life. But then i thought about whether that's actually true.</p><p>And i don't think it is fully. I mean what do i use from what i got at my school in education days?</p><p>When i was small my first experiences with computers were on C64 and Amiga etc. Later i got a Windows 95 PC when that was a thing. Do i use any of those today? No =)</p><p>Also at school i used lots of apps which don't even exist anymore today.</p><p>And iPhones and Android devices did not get into the workplace first because they had great business features right away nor because they were used by the businesses first because they had gotten taught that in schools/universities to use those devices.</p><p>No, it was devices people bought on their own because they thought they were more handy than a Nokia or Blackberry and they brought them to their schools and offices, too so then ways were thought of to integrate them into the workflow, or, you know, use them despite they are not even integrated into a workflow much at all in many places.</p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p>So i think no, it does actually not matter as much as some think whether many schools in the US get chromebooks because they are cheaper and easier to whitewash/maintain for the limited use cases they do.</p><p><br></p><p>What matters more is which devices people will want to use when they can decide.</p><p><br></p><p>I think where MS should tackle Chromebooks is not in price or stripped down functionality, but by trying to make it less cumbersome and less hassle to use Windows daily. And no, i don't mean just by pointing at uwp apps which can only be gotten from the store and act like that is the be all end all solution to everything.</p><p>No, i mean actual usability improvements in the OS that matter to people.</p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p>Look at where others get the usability better in their (desktop) OS and do such things.</p><p><br></p><p>Like for example compared to chromebook, windows should get something like whitewash, too, where after installs something like an automatic restore point should be created so that one could restore the device with a single click to the last known version it ran well at. And any hassle/stumbling points on the way to such easy seamless automatic saving and restoring should be fixed.</p><p>Yes, Windows 10 rarely ever shows a blue screen of death anymore, i only remember seeing something like that 2-3 times across all my windows 10 running computers.</p><p>But: When things go bad on windows 10, they can go really bad and much worse even than on older versions of windows in some cases.</p><p>Each of the few times i had it that i actually had to restore a windows 10 running system, i then had issues of even enabling the boot to safe mode via key press option first since it's not enabling by default (to have a bit faster boot up) and the only way to get to it easily by default is via a menu in windows, which, well, is problematic when your windows does not boot up properly in that moment…</p><p>Also the only few times i actually needed to go back to a restore point, none was created automatically and for those machines where i had made ones manually, it did not work to get back to them.</p><p><br></p><p>So yeah, such things have to be tackled.</p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p>Or compared to macOS, there one can update and even reset the OS while it keeps all your files and applications (yes, all desktop applications and games) working. I could hardly believe that aspect when i got my first mac many years ago, coming from Windows i thought that could hardly be possible. But yeah, i've done it many times meanwhile, upgrading to new OS versions etc on macOS and all my apps and games still worked fine afterwards.</p><p>(Well,let's say most, because some were updated by Apple so it installed the updated version automatically).</p><p>Such things are things MS has to get going.</p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p>Or many dock/taskbar usage related usability items. Look at how on macs one can add things to the dock/ taskbar by just dragging the icons in, remove them by dragging the icon out, even create folders etc in the dock/taskbar.</p><p>In windows just such basic things are each already more convoluted/cumbersome to do (and one can't create folders there at all).</p><p>Now on iOS 11 Apple shows how one can use the dock/taskbar nicely in a touch first focussed flow.</p><p>Why does that not exist the same way on surface when i use it with touch?</p><p>Why does surface pro still not show up the onscreen keyboard on input fields by itself when i use the device with touch or mouse with no keyboard attached (as i have on some devices only used in the living room)</p><p><br></p><p>Or also other things like basic file operations are all super slow and handled in way outdated form on windows.</p><p>Like copy, paste, duplicate, delete etc.</p><p>Issues with long path/file names. It generally taking long to do any of these actions for large files and large folders.</p><p>It was already way faster to do any such file operations on macOS (on same speed ssd) than on windows with older macOS.</p><p>Now with the latest macOS update they are bringing in a new file system which will allow to instantly copy/duplicate etc, so many file operations will be instant, for large files and entire folders of thousands of large files etc.</p><p>Compare that to the many minutes to even hours to do such file operations on windows.</p><p>On windows, what i had to do to just get large folder file operations to go halfway acceptable timeframes was to buy a samsung 960 pro, because on my older ssd (which is still way faster than the ssd of my 2015 macbook pro) it took many hours often where copying/moving/deleting the same many gigs folder on my macbook pro only took 1-2 minutes.</p><p>Now with the next macOS version (high sierra) it seems like such operations will go instantly with the new file system. </p><p>So they have to get such things going which really matter in day to day usage and usability.</p><p>Basically they are doing it right if i can use Windows for a month nonstop without ever having the feeling something was a hassle on the OS side.</p><p>They should use it themselves daily like regular users for a month and basically fix anything that makes it feel like a cumbersome hassle in between.</p><p><br></p><p>Now, after i moaned about all those usability issue with Windows, one could wonder why i still also use windows devices/machines.</p><p>Well, because they have all the desktop pro creation and productivity and development etc applications. And all the best games, too. And all the most forward pushes in technology like AR, VR etc.</p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p>On such ends i feel like MS gets more in the way than foster it though, because for example instead of partnering with oculus and valve/vive, they come up with their own AR/VR/MR platform which is UWP only, and as such underlines the weaknesses of UWP and their store, not the strengths of the open windows platform which allowed such things like Rift and Vive, openvr, steamvr to be made in first place.</p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p>In short, what MS has, even if they don't realize it, is already the most used more open (than mobile and chromebooks) platform where everyone can make apps for without going through a store, yes, i get it, you'd like your 30% cut of every app sold and also would like the security aspect of people only using signed apps from the store, but better to have the most used desktop platform which people use and want to continue to use than to have none, no?</p><p><br></p>

    • Ugur

      15 June, 2017 - 8:52 am

      <p><a href="#125814"><em>In reply to Ugur:</em></a><em> </em>And since my previous comment is long and more on the general state, i wanted to make this one point briefly in own comment:</p><p>I think MS could appeal to much more "young ones" and average people, if they would show a few social media and youtube celebrities/"influencers" with their workflows where and how they use windows and apps only available on desktop OS.</p><p>Not in a cringeworthy "we're so hip and cool" way like some youtube people used at E3 press conferences this year, but down to earth real talk of people like Linus Tech tips or MKBHD etc showing their workflow and why they use windows for work and play, the apps they use, their workflows etc.</p><p><br></p><p>Basically show that no, unlike some who think no apps and content is made on windows, there are for example the most most in depth games on windows, the the game engines to make those games, the pro apps to create and edit video and audio or images or animation, 3d modelling etc etc, all those exist in the best form on windows.</p><p><br></p><p>Some think because there's no big hype talk about "apps" on windows, there would not be development on constant app updates and new apps and games and other stuff on windows, like as if it was a legacy platform.</p><p>The reality is that there's no hype app of the week talk, because there are already millions of applications on windows people use wide and far, there does not need to be hype anymore like when for example something like a file manager makes it onto an iPad.</p><p><br></p><p>It's people letting themselves get misguided (still! =) ) by Steve Jobs' messages that this would be old and that be new and then MS trying to ape that and declaring win 32/x86/x64 as legacy only for a while etc.</p><p><br></p><p>While in reality, users decide what is current and what at best legacy, and the large majority of devs and users happily use and create win32/x86/x64 apps and games on windows and don't do so for UWP etc.</p><p>And yes, people use their mobile devices a lot, because well, it's handy with the device in your pocket, but guess what? Most of those people, if they have anything more in depth to do than what can be done easily on the phone, most of them do it on a laptop or desktop.</p><p><br></p><p>And yeah, if MS wants the push to UWP to improve, they better change their centenial/desktop app packaging to a way where one can do it with a single click on a visual ui for any desktop app/game folder.</p><p>Last i tried it it involved downloading right system images and messing around in command line and various hassle involving steps.</p><p><br></p><p>I think it's quite all right when people also buy chromebooksand also use chromebooks, as long as there are convinving usability and capability arguments for also having windows running devices, too.</p><p><br></p><blockquote>For example if the base version of the surface laptop was the spec they sell as mid spec now and it also had a card reader and also a usb c/thunderbolt 3 port next to the usb-a one (and at best a second USB-A, too) and came with pen and one could fold the screen back for painting and that spec then cost 1k, i think that would become so popular that it would convince many to buy that for themselves and bring it to school and offices and everywhere way more than any such crappy Ad can which only highlights the downsides of windows compared to chromebooks, not the upsides.</blockquote><p><br></p>

      • Waethorn

        15 June, 2017 - 12:51 pm

        <blockquote><a href="#125823"><em>In reply to Ugur:</em></a></blockquote><p>Can you tweet that next time?</p>

  • jbinaz

    15 June, 2017 - 10:39 am

    <p>"<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">education-bound stripper PCs" </span></p><p>Do strippers really need PCs for education?</p>

    • hrlngrv

      Premium Member
      15 June, 2017 - 12:11 pm

      <p><a href="#125866"><em>In reply to jbinaz:</em></a></p><p>No, no. PCs used to get rid of old paint. Get a sharp enough edge and a good 2-handed grip . . .</p>

  • Jeff Jones

    16 June, 2017 - 12:59 pm

    <p>I think one of the reasons Chrome OS is seeing increased adoption is that way it handles updates in the background by having two copies of the OS and updating the offline version then rebooting to that. Microsoft is getting close, but Windows is still a clunky experience in comparison. Until Microsoft can get everyone on UWP apps I don't see it improving much.</p><p>You can't create a dual OS image when app developers are storing their files inside your OS folder. Why in the world do regular apps need to install files into the Windows directory? Who knows, but I see it happening all the time.</p><p>The second benefit for Chrome OS, particularly for the Education sector is management of devices from a web site. Has Microsoft created a web based version of this yet, or does it still require Windows Server with it's expensive licensing model? Microsoft doesn't talk much about this, so I'm assuming they don't have a comparable solution yet.</p><p><br></p><p>In short it's still a lot easier to screw up a Windows computer and a lot harder to fix it, compared to Chrome OS. That is why Chrome OS is seeing high adoption rates in certain areas.</p>

  • John Scott

    19 June, 2017 - 8:06 am

    <p>My wife a teacher uses Chromebooks for 4th grade they do all she needs them to do. Many in her building use different technology from Chromebooks to PCs to Fire tablets. They buy what they can afford and yet the expense is not just the device but the network infrastructure, buying curriculum and licenses and working with existing systems. Yes Microsoft is losing much like Apple has in education. Other devices offered much cheaper alternatives for technology. </p>

  • nbplopes

    20 June, 2017 - 7:22 am

    <p>FUD (,_uncertainty_and_doubt<span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">).</span></p><p>Having said this Personally I use Edge in Windows. I prefer not to have some features and haver better performance overall.</p><p>Finally, the education market needs a healthy educational app market. Neither of these solutions seam to tackle that fact. Both of these vendors state all you need is what we offer nothing else … </p>


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