HP Envy x2 (Qualcomm) Review Check-In: Performance

Posted on March 23, 2018 by Paul Thurrott in Hardware, Mobile, Windows 10 with 69 Comments

Leisurely. Is the only possible word one could use to describe the performance of Windows 10 on ARM today. That the HP Envy x2 user experience suffers as a result is undeniable. So the question is whether this problem is fatal, or whether the platform’s other benefits—stellar battery life and standby, plus seamless connectivity—are good enough to render the performance issues moot.

Complicating matters, the performance of this system varies depending on what you’re doing. And like Windows RT before it, Windows 10 on ARM seems to exhibit an interesting behavior where repeated tasks get progressively faster. For example, the first time I opened the Windows Features control panel, it took about 30 seconds for the window to draw the list of installable system features. But when I just opened this interface again, the list appeared in just a few seconds, in-line with what I see on my powerful desktop PC.

Apps are a mixed bag. For the most part, Store apps—by which I mean “real” Store apps, or Universal Windows Platform (UWP) apps—tend to run pretty well. And desktop applications tend to run very slowly.

Sometimes the performance of desktop applications is slow, in fact, that it gets in the way.

For example, when I remove a song from a playlist in Google Play Music using Google Chrome, there is a slow process by which the main frame on the page refreshes and then redraws the list. This is something I never notice on x86/x64 PCs, but the visual flash, and the couple of seconds it takes to complete, are annoying on the Envy x2.

Writing this post in MarkdownPad is mostly OK from a performance perspective, and the HP’s Surface Pro-like keyboard cover is working well and offering a normal typing experience. But there is the slightest, almost not noticeable delay between the time I press a key and the letter appears on-screen. And when I opened the app’s Options dialog for the first time—which I do to adjust the font sizing—it took so long to appear that I thought I had mis-clicked in the menu. What’s “so long”? 3 or 4 seconds. That’s an infinity when you’re used to the normal instantaneous response time.

But at least these applications do run. The inability to run desktop applications was the primary complaint against the (also ARM-based) Windows RT. That said, in using Windows 10 on ARM, I am reminded that slow performance was a major issue with RT as well. And now that application compatibility has been solved, the ongoing performance ills stand out all the more.

Looking at Task Manager from time-to-time, I’m struck by the fact that CPU performance—rather than, say, memory usage—is the real issue when I’m heavily multitasking, with multiple applications and Chrome tabs open at once. Tasks I don’t usually consider all that much—like Windows Update—can consume an inordinate amount of resources. (In this case when downloading a big update; I was surprised to discover it downloading the Fall Creators Update! This thing was running 1703 when I got it. That’s nuts.) The Antimalware Service Executable is another weird CPU stealing culprit on this PC.

Anyway. Anyone who even briefly considered running a developer environment like Visual Studio or a professional creative application such as Photoshop Elements should move along, nothing to see here. Those experiences would either be horribly slow or would not work at all. And remember: Windows 10 on ARM can only run 32-bit apps.

Gaming is pretty much out of the question as well. Windows 10 for ARM ships with the same annoying light mobile games as any Windows 10 version (Candy Crush, etc.) and, yes, they probably run fine. (I uninstalled them immediately.) But even a mobile-oriented shooter like Modern Combat 5, which runs well on phones, is horribly slow. It posts sub-10 FPS speeds and is basically unplayable.

In a briefing with HP, the company presented this product as one that was for consumption first and productivity second, and you may recall my earlier conversation about the perceived competition, which is largely the iPad Pro. And consumption experiences like Groove Music, Movies & TV, Netflix (which is preinstalled on the HP), and reading in Microsoft Edge all do work really well, with no real performance lag. My only issue with this is that an iPad Pro offers an even better content consumption experience.

And my Windows Ink experience was very positive, with very little lag. I’m not sure yet about drawing or painting, where pen leg could be fatal. But for notes and writing, the performance is solid.

I’ll keep testing and using the Envy x2, and it’s possible that my impressions of the overall performance will evolve as that happens. For now, I’ll just say that the performance is very reminiscent of some Core M-based PCs I’ve used, which isn’t a compliment. And that those with power user needs will not be satisfied with this experience.

As for me, I’m right on the edge: The act of writing is acceptably fast, even in this desktop application. And the core tasks I need to perform on the web or with photo editing are, at least, workable too. There are a few apps I’ve not really spent time with yet, like Visual Studio Code. It’s only been a couple of days.


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Comments (70)

70 responses to “HP Envy x2 (Qualcomm) Review Check-In: Performance”

  1. WP7Mango

    At least the performance can only improve, I think.

    I would expect a good performance improvement with the 845 processor, and further improvements with future Windows 10 ARM optimisations.

    The speed increase based on repeated tasks is by design - a direct result of the ARM emulation translation being cached.

  2. gabbrunner

    It's a tricky situation for Microsoft to be in, isn't it? Making Windows run on ARM is a requirement for its future really - its not like its a revolutionary idea or some genius plan - but doesn't every single device with Windows that runs anything other than blazingly fast further ruin Microsoft's image, in an age of iphones and ipads and super Android phones? How acceptable is it, in 2018, to ship devices that aren't FAST?

  3. PeteB

    After the Elite x3 Windows phone fiasco, it's unclear why HP would waste another dime on yet another harebrained RT reboot.

    If the device can't run normal windows programs without gotchas and compromise then it's DOA. The market has rejected them over and over.

    The battery life is meaningless if it can't do much. Like my friends that used to rationalize their blackberry was better than iPhone because the battery lasts so much longer - when it was simply because blackberry could just read emails and that was it.

    • Otto Gunter

      In reply to PeteB:
      Not so fast. Windows Phone died because of a lack of apps and, to a great extent, that was the demise of RT as well, as an OS. But my Surface RT, and I'm talking hardware here, is magnificent, make no mistake. I still use it for consumption; I can play Sudoku (for example), or work on spreadsheets with a mouse and keyboard, or read emails, for an entire flight, which I cannot do on my SP4. It is light, it is solid, it has that fantastic kickstand, and it is the right size. If I could buy the same tablet-sized ARM Surface with that kind of battery life, that has way more apps avail in the store, now and in the future, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
      This WOA thing will only get better, and I can't wait for it to replace my Android tablet.

  4. Maktaba

    Wouldn’t it have been better to record a video instead, rather than writing a long post to describe the experience?

    • Michael Miller

      In reply to Maktaba:

      Thurrott is a writer and makes his living writing; a video instead of the written word for hardware reviews would be much more effective. However, Thurrott does best in a video when he has someone setting him up with questions, etc. ala Windows Weekly and this sites daily webcast where his partner does the setup and moderating. Thurrott wouldn’t do as well by himself with a video demonstration of hardware. But, he writes well and his words are there for all to see. In that way, he is a bit of a throwback that I think his subscribers probably like.

    • skane2600

      In reply to Maktaba:

      Many times when I discover that a review is video-based I skip it thinking "no thanks". Even for a performance review, a video would need to be comparing two devices to be superior to a written review IMO.

  5. Jeff.Bane

    I can’t imagine one of these ARM machines after 6-9 months or so of use when it has some windows lag on it (minor these days I know, but will be exponentially worse on an already taxed cpu).

    i cant make this machine make any sense to but the most casual user who as Paul points out would probably be better served with an iPad.

  6. curtisspendlove

    Hmmm. This is disappointing. 1.5 times the battery life does me no good if it takes twice as long to do something. That’s a net loss in efficiency.

    • lilmoe

      In reply to curtisspendlove:

      THANK YOU. Someone gets it. This is NOT going to improve even for the next 2 generations of ARM processors, the SD845 isn't noticeably faster than the SD835. Samsung's new Exynos MIGHT be a better fit for the high single threaded performance (that isn't in dire need on Android, but is needed on Windows currently). The problem with Exynos, for example, is that would need upwards of 6 watts to achieve productive levels in emulation, negating any battery saving benefits in productivity (media consumption still benefits). Microsoft has had a LOT of time to build a streamlined, native and powerful cross-platform (NOT cross-form factor) development framework that is feature-rich, robust and fully accelerated since 2014 or even 2015, but instead they did Metro (facepalm), then UWP (double facepalm).

      For those who don't understand what I mean; The problem with a cross-form factor UI framework is that it is optimized for the lowest common denominator; Windows 10 Mobile FOR PHONES (and augmented reality).

      Windows 10 Mobile for phones is DEAD, it's been KILLED (to emphasize for those who called me out on that word). Microsoft needs to KILL that lowest common denominator, and optimize UWP for the desktop (with minor support for tablets). UWP will ONLY be viable when Office proper is built using it alone AND distributed in the Store, NOT via Centennial.

      Then, and ONLY then, would their future vision work. When ALL the major Windows applications are built using that framework including Office, Photoshop, Premiere, VISUAL STUDIO, that's when Windows on ARM would be a viable contender. When you have a modern, powerful, fully hardware accelerated UI for that platform, everything would be fast and fluid. The "delays" in the less powerful platforms would be in loading, compiling and rendering. This would make performance expectations VERY predictable, and hardware choices much easier and streamlined.

      I really love the idea of having Windows streamlined. It has an alluring ring to it. Moving away from general compute to dedicated/custom hardware is the future that even Apple seeks. Having a system that "only" needs an ARM processor for general compute but takes FULL advantage of a larger, dedicated GPU, DSP, ISP, or whatever custom chip to do all the heavy lifting of specific workloads SHOULD be the future.

      I mean, look at the XBox! It only has Jaguar cores!!! But look how fast and fluid it is. Imagine a similar system dedicated for photo editing, video rendering, 3D rendering, maybe even a system with an Intel CPU for compiling code (since that can't be fully accelerated, YET). The sky is the limit, but CPUs ARE A LIMIT.

      But all this won't work with the current incarnation of UWP, or in "emulation". It just wont...

      • curtisspendlove

        In reply to lilmoe:

        Yup. I actually think over time this will be improved. Just not sure Windows (or Linux, macOS) will be relevant to the common consumer by then.

        Apple is already putting near zero useful effort into macOS. Linux has really only ever been relevant on the server, and that is all transparent to end-users. I think Microsoft has a decent chance at keeping Windows relevant on the server and with certain segments of the population (primarily .NET devs, and companies / enterprises still MS tech heavy).

        Microsoft will be fine. But I don’t expect the consumer levels of Windows to last beyond the 2020’s. I’d be surprised if “desktop” is still a thing in 2030.

  7. jhoff80

    I'd actually be most curious about Office 2016 and IE performance. Microsoft is using x86 versions of those for full addon compatibility. With Edge as an option, IE doesn't matter so much, but Office 2016 is make or break for what this device promises to be (in my opinion).

  8. MixedFarmer75

    Not for power users. I can see replacing my Surface 3 with something like this, though (maybe something a little cheaper.)

  9. feek

    Didn't they demonstrate PhotoShop when they first announced woa? Was that faked?

  10. NazmusLabs

    I may be able to answer your question as to why Modern Combat ran slowly on your PC even though it runs find on phones sporting the same (or even weaker) processor. It's almost certainly an x86 app. Before anyone gets triggered, let me stop you. It USED to be the case with Win8 that UWP (metro) apps would auto compile for all architectures in one store package. BUT THAT CHANGED with Win10. Devs must compile separate APPX packages for each architecture and upload them individually to the store. This is needed because UWP is more mature and need to handle games like For Forza 7 that's dozens of gigs in size.

    So, one thing you want to remember is that even though an app is a pure UWP, might STILL run slowly because it may be that it's running in x86 emulation. See, a lot of UWP apps only offer x86, and maybe x64, but not ARM. This is especially true for apps that doesn't support Windows 10 Mobile. Frankly, they likely didn't think they would need to compile for ARM if they didn't support mobile. Secondly, how would they even test them.

    So if anyone was thinking just sticking with UWP apps will ensure good performance, I am truly sorry to burst that bubble. I very much want Windows 10 on ARM to succeed. I like the idea of more competition for Intel on the Desktop space. Just look how having AMD surprise us with Ryzen is helping Intel not be lazy anymore.

  11. John Craig

    This is the first step in a long journey. It was always going to be a buggy experience and really, only people who love early adoption should look at this machine.

    For the rest of us, I'd give it until at least the Snapdragon 845 series to arrive before jumping on the windows-on-arm bandwagon...but jump on I will.

    I really see this as the only future for consumer focussed windows users

  12. rameshthanikodi

    I like how we're all behaving like we're supposed to be surprised at Google Chrome, a win32 app, not running at native speed on ARM. It's emulation, duh. What should Microsoft do? They already tried the opposite approach of not letting Win32 apps run at all - Windows RT - which people bitched about to death. So now we get slow Win32 apps, which is supposed to be a win-win compromise and 100% in line with expectations, but of course now the goal posts are moved and we're dinging it for getting the one thing all saw coming a mile away.

    Anyway, for whatever it's worth, the performance of equivalent Intel Core-Y processors, Atom processors, Pentium processors, and Celerons are all also "leisurely" despite having the benefit of running everything native. But many people still put up with them. And Core-Y processors don't even give you good battery life.

    • skane2600

      In reply to FalseAgent:

      In business there's a thing called the "do-nothing alternative" that Microsoft should embrace on occasion. Nobody asked for Windows RT. Outside of a few tech enthusiasts nobody asked for ARM-based Windows either. As far as moving the goal posts is concerned, how transparent was Microsoft about the performance of Win32 programs on WoA? It's not surprising that people without a long history in software development got unrealistic expectations.

  13. matsan

    Ouch. I wonder where's the use case for this class of devices...?

    Is it right to assume that processes without 32-bit in the list is ARM native? SO at least anti-malware is not running through the emulation layer?

  14. Mario

    Paul can you please let us know performance using IE..Since Chrome is no go. IE may the best alternative. I can't us Edge or Chrome even on X86 to connect to my work sine they stopped supporting Java plugin types.

    I need to run IE with Java plug in to Connect remotely to my work. Battery life is exciting since I can work remotely from many places without chasing outlets. If only IE is running JAVA plugin ok.

  15. Daekar

    Two questions for Paul:

    Has performance and responsiveness improved with the Fall Creator's Update?

    Do the full Office apps downloaded from the Store run OK?

    If I can run Office, Edge, Skype, and properly sync OneDrive, I could probably use this machine. If it won't run Office at a reasonable speed... well, I don't see how I could possibly justify it.

    • PeteB

      In reply to Daekar:. Do the full Office apps downloaded from the Store run OK?

      That's a big fat nope. Because the real deal Office isn't an app, it's just Win32 office converted to a fake app by centennial.

      And MS hasn't been able to duplicate the functionality of real Office 1:1 as a UWP app, because WinRT10 is simply too weak - it's good at lightweight phone app crap like shopping lists, not proper productivity or content creation tasks.

    • Paul Thurrott

      In reply to Daekar:

      I should have updated this. So Windows Update was stuck for a long time on that 1709 download. But as it turns out, this was a glitch: 1709 was already installed. Not sure what happened there.

      Will be looking at Office soon.

  16. Silversee

    I wonder Paul, if using Google Play Music in Edge, a native app for ARM, would exhibit this issue? (Assuming Google hasn't hamstring Edge.)

    I also find it curious that in almost every review I have read so far, it is the performance of Chrome (or Chromium in the case of Elektron apps) that people cite when pronouncing x86 performance poor. I'd like to see a bit more thorough investigation of other apps.

    Microsoft showed Photoshop running pretty smoothly in its early demos. If it turns out that the performance deficit is endemic and not specific to Chrome, it makes me wonder if Microsoft had to change something in the wake of the threatened Intel lawsuit?

    Also, have you considered asking Google if there are any plans to support ARM? And Microsoft what it is doing to help third parties do this? The real solution long term is not to "fix" the emulation, but to have more native applications.

  17. wright_is

    Don't forget that during the first few hours, Windows will be indexing content in the background, especially if you configured OneDrive or copied data onto it.

    Not an excuse for poor performance, but I've seen low powered Intel PCs struggle after first install, but quickly pick up speed once they have finished indexing - although that was more with Windows 7 in the day, I haven't noticed it as much under 10, but it might be worth leaving it to churn away for a few hours...

    When I first set up my old Atom based Samsung Windows 8 tablet, it crawled for the first few hours, after leaving it on over night, it was "responsive" after that.

    It just goes to show how used we are to the high performance of modern Intel and AMD processors.

  18. jaredthegeek

    This is the biggest problem I have is that people expect this to perform like an X86 device and not an iPad. Its a competitor to an iPad Pro and needs to be evaluated as such. Paul, I know that you are reviewing it in the ways that people will demand to use it but the overall perception that people have for what this is, is completely off base. Did people expect their Windows Phones to run full desktop applications? This is a step up in the same way an iPad or Android tablet are. Its not a Dell XPS 13 or 15 with a core iX and is not meant to be. Context is very important and if you need visual studio and a ton of desktop apps this is not for you. From my experience working in IT and as an IT Manager over 80% of the staff could use this just fine. When I worked for the CA Department of Fish and Wildlife I would have loved this device to be provided to our scientists to take in the field for studies. It offers the same experience as their office computer, relies on the same infrastructure and the same apps with great connectivity.

    Most people want office apps, a few crappy mobile style games, and media consumption on a device. Very few need the tools that you are most readers here need. With more and more business applications moving to the web or using a Citrix environment this type of device as a great future. If I were heading to college or had a student heading to college, this is what I would send them with.

    • skane2600

      In reply to jaredthegeek:

      The price/performance ratio just isn't good except perhaps for those few people who are going to be "out in the wild" as you mentioned. It still strikes me as a kind of "look what we can do" project with no real practical advantage for most users.

    • PeteB

      In reply to jaredthegeek: people expect this to perform like an X86 device

      Microsoft creates that expectation by calling this Windows. If they want to trade on name recognition and skate on Windows creds then they have to expect people to believe it will run all their windows programs. Otherwise they should call it something else.

      I expect most of these glorified LTE enabled netbooks will end up getting returned by frustrated customers, just like Surface RT did.

    • curtisspendlove

      In reply to jaredthegeek:

      “This is the biggest problem I have is that people expect this to perform like an X86 device and not an iPad.”

      I agree for the most part. I missed the cost of this thing. I will state that I expect top performance from my iPad (and the high-cost line delivers).

      If this is a couple hundred bucks, then yup, I’m getting it as a Chromebook replacement...maybe. If it is in the mid-range then it is much less useful.

      Regardless, I think these have a very narrow niche. And you are absolutely right, this is not going to be my development laptop, nor is it meant to be. This is the “on vacation, checking slack, email, and code reviews...running my dev teams” device.

      • offTheRecord

        In reply to curtisspendlove:

        I believe the current starting price is $1,000 for the tablet (not including tax, upgrades or accessories). I think, as someone else said, it's a matter of the price/performance ratio for most folks. For a “on vacation, checking slack, email, and code reviews...running my dev teams” device, a starting price of over $1,000 may be fine for some, but is not likely to result in high sales volumes, IMO -- even with enterprises.

        Even at half the price, based on recent benchmarking results, it doesn't seem to have an attractive price/performance ratio. In emulation mode, it has a hard time matching the performance of years-old Celeron processors and struggles with graphics rendering. In native mode, it matches the performance of the Google Pixel 2 XL (according to Techspot's benchmark test results, anyway). It did have "best-in-class" battery life, although I'll note that my $200 3-year old Lenovo Windows tablet running an Atom processor has comparable performance and (with Lenovo's unique "barrel" battery) still gets nearly 80% of the battery life the HP ARM tablet got in Techspot's test.

        • curtisspendlove

          In reply to offTheRecord:

          “I believe the current starting price is $1,000 for the tablet (not including tax, upgrades or accessories).”

          Holy balls. That’s a nope for me. If I’m waiting 30 seconds for an app to close and I can see windows redrawing themselves. ... Wow.

          I can’t yet get behind I Windows 10 S machine for more than a reasonable “Chromebook cost”. $300-400 USD

    • Paul Thurrott

      In reply to jaredthegeek:

      The issue here is the same as with Windows RT or Windows 10 S. It looks like Windows, IS Windows. People WILL expect the experience to be what they're familiar with.

      But I do understand the point of it. I'm trying to be fair here.

      • jaredthegeek

        In reply to paul-thurrott:

        You have been fair, the problem is with MS listening to everyone and making poor decision.

        There lies the problem for Microsoft. Anything they do that is not full bore WIndows people complain about. No one expects an iPad to perform like a Macbook but people expect this to be the same as any Windows Laptop. They tried with Windows mobile and even today people cried that it did not run x86 apps which is insane. If they just called it 10S or w10S and dropped Windows from the title would that change people's mind? No because they would demand it run everything.

        People demand the experience be the same but then get mad when it does not perform the same.

        They need to differentiate the product lines further, not less. When you try to do everything then you do it all poorly.

    • nbplopes

      In reply to jaredthegeek:

      The biggest problem I have is that it does not perform closed to either a Tablet or a PC in the price range. So what do you get really? Windows on a tablet? It does not seam very good on that department either.

      So for now, you get an UWP console.

      • jaredthegeek

        In reply to nbplopes:

        Its a windows version of an iPad. Do people say well you just get an appstore console? Its a different device but Microsoft wants it to be everything to everyone and its doing it poorly. Just change the OS name and only run apps from the App Store and make them run well. Focus on the core first. Don't allow upgrades to pro, most people don't need to and that's not who this device is for then. They need to nail the core competencies first.

        They keep trying to make it all look the same and at this stage that just causes confusion and frustration. Align it against high end Chromebooks and iPads, not against full blown laptops.

  19. ezraward

    "Looking at Task Manager from time-to-time, I’m struck by the fact that CPU performance—rather than, say, memory usage—is the real issue when I’m heavily multitasking, with multiple applications and Chrome tabs open at once. Tasks I don’t usually consider all that much—like Windows Update—can consume an inordinate amount of resources."

    I've noticed this on lower-end Intel PCs such as my Core i3 Surface Pro 3, and Atom-based devices I own. They need to throttle those processes far more than they do for truly low end hardware.

    Edit: What I mean by this is that they need to improve the performance of this across the board, not just on ARM. Being a lower powered ARM chip just accentuates the issue, IMO.

  20. spacein_vader

    Im slightly confused by what market segment this device (and the iPad Pro,) are aimed at. If it's a device primarily for consumption a standard iPad, android tablet or laptop at half the price or less would work just as well surely?

    • RobertJasiek

      In reply to spacein_vader:

      It was to be expected that the first generation would be too slow for a seamless Win32 experience. Maybe the third generation will be fast enough for office and with 64b, if Win10onArm survives long enough. The whole point of Microsoft's Arm adventure is forcing Intel to do what it does not do without competition.

      That Microsoft also tries to push Store apps once more is just a side topic.

      At least, we have information about reality now: somewhat longer battery life in competition with slower execution. Recent Windows 10 / Intel mobile devices can also have decent battery life if well designed. What they are still missing is always on / phone functionality.

      If only Microsoft did what it should be doing: apply all their test results to the real Windows versions. (Uhm, and let it be only one version.)

      • skane2600

        In reply to RobertJasiek:

        I suspect the Win32 "emulation" is about as good as it's ever going to be. They might be able to improve the compatibility somewhat, but probably not the performance. When you consider the long time delay between announcing Windows on ARM and having units ready for sale, it seems likely that Microsoft took the time and effort to optimize it the best they could. I think some people just had inflated expectations. I don't think experienced developers are surprised.

        • RobertJasiek

          In reply to skane2600:

          I had in mind acceleration by improved CPUs. The first tablet Atoms were too slow, but the third generation became reasonable for browsing and similar tasks. It may well be that circa the third generation of ARM CPUs for Windows 10 will be good enough for avoiding noticable GUI latency in light office tasks.

          OTOH, by that time, we might have Intel 10nm CPUs combined with not further shrinked chassises of mobile computers and sufficient batteries resulting in up to 20h of battery life.

          • offTheRecord

            In reply to RobertJasiek:

            "It may well be that circa the third generation of ARM CPUs for Windows 10 will be good enough "

            The Qualcomm Snapdragon 835 and 845 octa-core CPUs are already the latest generation of ARM technology that is several generations old (the latest 10 nm fab technology using Armv8 with Cortex-A75 and -A55 cores). What did you mean by "the third generation of ARM CPUs for Windows 10?"

            I don't see ARM CPU performance improving that dramatically any time soon (at least, not without likewise dramatically, and negatively, affecting battery life). Any Windows on ARM performance improvements will most likely have to come on the software side, and that, historically, has been the rub for Microsoft when it comes to ARM.

          • skane2600

            In reply to RobertJasiek:

            I see what you meant now, but as you imply it's not as if ARM CPUs are the only ones that will get improvements. The price/performance ratio problem isn't likely to go away although it might be mitigated by superior battery life for those that consider that a critical issue.

  21. Mark from CO


    You only get one chance to make a good first impression. I can't believe how frequently Microsoft violates this maxim across a spectrum of its products (Edge, ToDo, W10 on ARM, etc.). I'll repeat my comment on your prior post. Why is this not a pig's ear?

    Mark from CO

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