Microsoft Delivers Yet Another Broken Windows 10 Update

Posted on September 30, 2016 by Brad Sams in Windows 10 with 81 Comments

Windows 10 Hero

This week, Microsoft pushed out another cumulative update and reports of installation problems are widespread. While I don’t know how many users are impacted, based on comments sent to me, it’s certainly widespread enough that this is well beyond an isolated issue.

The update that is causing the problem, KB3194496, is not installing correctly for users. The update, when it does fail, is causing some machines to restart, often multiple times, as Windows 10 attempts to remove the failed update. Worse, after a restart, the file will attempt to install again resulting in the loop of failed install, reboot, re-install and failure again.

Some users have reported that the cumulative update did install correctly on the second or third attempt while others have said that it fails every time.

As you can imagine, having this happen to your machine is not a fun experience but what is perplexing about this is that the issue was reported by those who are in the ‘release preview’ ring ahead of the wider-scale release; we know this as it was reported in the Microsoft’s support forums.  If the bug was reported, why did Microsoft go ahead and release the patch if the feedback indicated there was an issue?

I would bet that Microsoft will say that the telemetry suggested that for most users, the update installs correctly. But, seeing how many reports are being mentioned on Twitter and other places, it’s clear that a significant number of users are impacted.

If you do have this problem, there isn’t a workaround at this time but if you do find a solution to update problem, make sure to let us know so we can pass it on to those who are impacted by this bug.

Microsoft is pushing the idea that you should always patch your machine on the day the update is released as they often release security patches that fix vulnerabilities. But, until the company can get a handle on their quality control issues, such as the Anniversary update breaking millions of webcams, it feels like every time you run Windows update you are rolling the dice.

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Comments (81)

81 responses to “Microsoft Delivers Yet Another Broken Windows 10 Update”

  1. 431

    I had no problems. Flawless update. FWIW

  2. 2013

    There is a now workaround available with multiple people reporting success.


    • delete folder C:\Windows\System32\Tasks\Microsoft\XblGameSave
    • delete registry key: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\WindowsNT\CurrentVersion\Schedule\TaskCache\Tree\Microsoft\XblGameSave
    • Re-run the update

    If you go to the Task Scheduler & find these "XblGameSave" tasks (expand Task Scheduler Library/Microsoft/XblGameSave), you'll see that you can't delete one of the two tasks, even if you run as administrator. That's why you have to resort to doing it manually. These tasks are re-created on successful installation of the update.

  3. 5523

    I didn't even realize my computer had updated until I saw this thread. lol  So far, so good.

  4. 339

    I have two machines running on the Slow ring and both have failed the update multiples times and no matter what I have tried. I had my brothers laptop to look at yesterday which is just running the normal release os 1607 and it updated slowly but without a hitch. All rather annoying really.


    Kinda making me want to blow away both machines and start fresh on them :) 

  5. 5610

    Wow this non-premuim comments section is like the modern day back of the bus... Not one to complain about such things, just sayin.... :)


    As a computer "fixer" I can definately report that a more than usual amount of people are experiencing issues with the latest round of anniversary updates that stretch from a glitchy process; that I have not too much trouble fixing, to having to do a hard reset on Windows 10 altogether. What's sad about this is that the vast majority go smooth, and the headlines are certainly dominating as many of my customers say "I hear there are a lot of problems with Windows 10".

    It's really sad because as a fixer, my job is SO SO SO much easier than it has ever been before. I have gone from blowing my entire day to reinstall Windows 7 for people just a couple of short years ago (udpates etc, broken processes, and all around dumb problems with the OS); to practically forcing my customers into SSD's and clean installing the Anniversay update (still free as we know for those of us that know), with ALL UPDATES, in about an hour. So i would only get paid for a couple hours work on Win 7 reinstalls after killing my entire day with updates etc.

    I also go way out of my way to get my customers into and their files into OneDrive. Now when anything goes wrong a hard reset fixes a lot of issues pretty f-ing quickly. Certainly the hard part is dealing with the folks that are still using POP email accounts, and not embracing the cloud. But things are looking very bright as far as I am concerned. I am a happy camper, but the headlines are what people read.

    Personally I don't care what anyone thinks about Windows 10 because it makes my life and my job way easier than it ever has been. Windows 10 is quckly turning into a smartphone app type OS, that still has all the capabilites that hardcore geeks need and want. Too bad Microsoft has decided to ignore mobile just as my user base is starting to embrace the new easy to use app model.

  6. 5592

    FYI: From another website:

    Jason from the Windows team did post this message on Thursday on Microsoft's forum:

    Teams have dug into this issue and do believe the cause has been identified. The correct team is developing a fix/workaround and once we have the full details, we'll be posting that information. For your affected machines, there's no need to keep attempting the install. It'll keep failing. In the mean time, hold tight! We're all over this and will keep sharing information along the way.

  7. 1534

    Two Machines. Two perfect updates.

  8. 5496

    Beta. This is beta OS.

    Even though some people have problems, it's probably less then 1% of all insiders.

    Microsoft thought they find it before.they released, but not 2 people are going to have the same exact software, with the same exact hardware, and same exact drivers.

    Bottom line, this is a beta OS.

  9. 5497

    But what is perplexing about this is that the issue was reported by those who are in the ‘release preview’ ring ahead of the wider-scale release; we know this as it was reported in the Microsoft’s support forums. If the bug was reported, why did Microsoft go ahead and release the patch if the feedback indicated there was an issue?

    It's really simple... The Windows Insider Preview Program is a complete farce! It's absolutely useless! Now if Microsoft actually listened to their Insiders it would be different but since they don't, then why even have the damn program and waste our time? Microsoft will do what Microsoft wants to do regardless of anything we users say.

    • 5629

      In reply to trparky:

      Microsoft Windows Insider Program
      Program Agreement
      Posted: June 2015; Effective: July 29, 2015
      The Program Services include experimental and early prerelease software. This means that you may experience occasional crashes and data loss. To recover, you may have to reinstall your applications, the operating system, or re-flash your device. In some instances, once you install the Program Services software, you may not be able to go back to the prior version of the software. Additionally, the Program Services, if installed on a mobile device, may inadvertently damage your device rendering it inoperable. Using the Program Services on some devices may impact your warranty (check with your device provider). By participating, you agree to frequently backup your data.

      • 5504

        In reply to truerock:

        I think you're missing the point, which is not that Insider builds are risky but rather than Insider feedback is ignored. I can't comment if the point is well-taken because I'm not an Insider.

        • 5629

          In reply to skane:

          Microsoft did not ignore Insider feedback.  Their evaluation was that failures were specific to the test environment and did not impact production PCs.

          • 5504

            In reply to truerock:

            As a non-insider I can't confirm or deny what you say in this particular case. However, there's plenty of evidence of problems with production updates of late. My daughters laptop would no longer accept her pin number and won't allow one to be setup after an update. This problem is been encountered by many people.

  10. 327

    Out of four machines, I had four perfect updates. Just sayin'.

  11. 442

    On my 4 machines, 1 installed no problems.  3 won't install at all.  My SP3 is going through some nasty reboots and recovery attempts to the failed attempt.  I've stopped using that machine until this is fixed.

  12. 5234

    I'm still seeing lots of performance issues with systems that are now just getting the Anniversary Update.  They range from systems that don't work with Sleep, to systems that slow down or freeze up if an update was downloaded, but the computer hasn't rebooted to install it yet, to systems that just give the SDoP error (Spinning Dots of Purgatory).


    A few systems needed firmware updates to fix the problem - the same problem that a lot of Windows 8.0 systems had when Windows 8.1 came out, but now have to be patched - AGAIN!


    LOTS of systems have drivers that need to be updated after upgrading, but aren't being done automatically.  There's something seriously wrong with the update filters for drivers via Windows Update.  A whole bunch of drivers are hidden through the usual Windows Update UI but install when you do a manual update check per device via Device Manager.

  13. 3859

    Installed fine.  My webcam now works but not sure it was this update or the one last week or magic that fixed it.

  14. 1726

    I've had it fail on 2 tries now. And it is ready to go the 3rd time. However, I won't let the system reboot at this time.

  15. 5670

    I had a machine with this problem, and this isn't even the worse that I've had happen. On the previous update, my machine wouldn't boot and I had to roll back the update. After being forced to do update->rollback->update several times, let me tell you: I was pretty pissed! You just can't force updates on customers, especially if those updates have the potential to break the system. The proof is in the fact that NO OTHER COMPANY does this!

    Mark my words, if Microsoft doesn't get this update bullshit squared away, it will eventually be the death of their platform...

    • 5497

      Oh believe me, users are already pissed and rightfully so. Unfortunately there's not much we users can do, there's no viable alternative platform for most of us to go to. Sure, there is Linux or the Mac but if you game you're going to be in sorry shape.

  16. 5664

    Installed without fault on all systems here. An old AMD Turion-based HP Pavilion notebook, an AMD Phenom x4 desktop, a Haswell i7 Dell XPS 8700, and my Windows-powered Ivy Bridge i7 Mac mini.

    Doing quite well so far!

  17. 442

    Microsoft has stated on Technet that they know what caused the problem and are working on a fix.

  18. 1504

    I've been having this exact issue on my SP4 i7. I've tried installing the update 4 times, and it rolls back every time. I'm on the Release Preview Ring. I guess I'll try that workaround...

  19. 1087

    Attempted the fix suggested by CyberDadIO and unfortuatley does not address by update problem.  Still stalling @ 81% for hours.

    EDIT: Adding I am on Win10 64/Home edition on a 2015 Dell XPS13.

  20. 6321

    I'm set for manual update but have been behind. I had about 40 updates to do and I do one at a time.

    Some updates ran but often I'd see the upload supposedly running but never finish.

    Then, this week, I went to try again an all the updates are gone.

    I don't recall giving an "install all" command.

    Did MS call them back?

    Or do they go away after a while?



  21. 6087

     I've updated 5 machines. On those with 64bit OS's on 64bit machines (3) - no problem. On the remaining two 64bit machines with 32bit OS's installed - spinning dots. Restarts (1 to 2) cure the problem. 

  22. 2394

    Mine took the better part of a day (unattended), but completed. Not sure how many times it rebooted/reinstalled, but I'm fairly happy with it.

  23. 5791

    The deleting of XblGameSave thing fixed it. Quite easy fix Microsoft. What are you waiting for to fix it? I don't even own an XBox, it makes me wonder...

  24. 4474

    Microsoft's updates strategy for Windows 10 has been an unmitigated disaster.

    Even Android and iOS only update once a year.  And they are considerably lighter in weight.  Windows is big, heavy, and monolithic and the notion that you can take a giant piece of software like that and just rapidly release updates without having major breakage is fantasy.

    So far we have :

    1.Webcams being broken in Anniversery Update.

    2.Always on top windows being broken in Anniversery Update (nice bug that causes the taskbar to say on top).

    3.An update that managed to break Powershell (KB3176934).

    4.The discrete GPU is completely unusable in windowed mode in laptops with hybrid graphics and has been since the beginning of Windows 10 with Microsoft seemingly not bothered to try and fix it. (

  25. 180

    Microsoft needs to start treating these failed updates as an emergency. This shouldn't be happening, and it's starting to feel like a regular occurrence. Without the option to effectively opt out of these things until they're fixed, staying on Windows 7 - or moving to another platform, eventually - is starting to look like a wiser and wiser choice. Businesses can't afford the down time from failed updates, and with Windows 10 that down time is starting to feel like an inevitability.

    • 180

      Yeah, failed 3 times for me. Not even trying on my other systems. I need those to be reliable. Microsoft, what the hell is going on over there?

  26. 1043

    I've updated 7 machines, 4 at work and 3 at home with no reboot issues. The only problem I have seen was with the Anniversary update on some old Dell laptops that caused an infinite black screen with spinning white circle issue. Manually turning the laptop off and back on again gets it to resume finishing the Anniversary update install. The same thing happened on those machines with the 1st cumulative update that followed the Anniversary update and the same workaround worked. It would seem to be an issue with Windows 10 trying to install udpated video drivers that the older laptops do not support, or at least that's all I've been able to find so far about it.

  27. 473

    I am now not on the insider ring and I got it on the 29th and it installed OK. However after restarting both my monitors came on but where black but not in standby. I decided to work blind and enter my password and the machine did log in and my left (secondary) screen did come on at that point.  My right hand monitor which is the primary one came on but had a black screen and only disconnecting from the HDMI port and then reconnecting it brought the screen back. I then shut down completely and then started from cold to see if it was all OK and it was with both screens coming on OK.


    My machine is self built based on an ASRock Z97 Extreme6 it has an NVidia GeForce GTX 960 graphics card fitted, 32GB RAM, CoreI5 - 4570S running at 3.00GHz in case anyone at MS is looking in.

    I definitely think they should not be releasing to non-insiders until all bugs are removed.

  28. 3118

    I'm 3 for 3. Maybe I should go buy a Lottery ticket...

    • 5027

      well I'm 40 for 40 so far :)  And still pushing out Windows 10 to more computers ..  so far none of them have had any issues, knock on wood .. but the ones I put windows 10 on have very similar hardware so that helps of course..

  29. 5681

    I have the same problem. at first, I thought the update was installed successfully but then it gave me the constantly restarting problem and it turnes out I am not the only one. it just keeps restarting in every about 10 mins and there's nothing I can do. I hope the problem will be solved soon. 

  30. 1753

    I have put it on 3 machines (new Spectre x360 and 2 older Sony Vaios (i3 and i7) from 2010. That said, the update at the beginning of the month had me worried. I took around 8 hours to download! On all machines it got stuck between 48% and 52% and stopped there for hours. I even tried deleting the update cache and restarting, on one machine, but it still froze at the same place, so I just left it. Then, in the evening, it said that it was finished and would reboot out-of-hours.

  31. 2079

    They need to go back to square one with Windows 10 updates.  Not only are they way too aggresive at forcing users to update, the quality of the updates is way down.

    I kept my important systems on 8, and I'm liking that decision more every day.

  32. 5534

    I've put this on four machines (two laptops/two desktops) and have only had one very insignificant glitch on one of the desktops. After restarting the computer to complete the upgrade, and then using the computer for a while, I went to shut it down. It listed "restart to complete the upgrade" as one of the options, even though I'd already done that. After restarting it one more time, it's been fine.

  33. 4623

    I have to wonder if this issue isnt causing other issues on my desktop. 1607 hasnt been able to install on my desktop for the last 3 days.  I get a screen that reads that its trying to uninstall the up, shuts the system down, reboots it and then comes back up. After that I have experienced issues with "Multiple versions of Outlook are installed". Extremely frustrating.

  34. 427

    I keep getting the Anniversary Update installed on my laptop which has incompatible WiFi drivers, and I keep rolling it back.  So I probably need to update my 5 year old HP envy laptop anyway, even know it still gets the job done well.

  35. 5530

    I'm a little disappointed with the performance of the Anniversary Update. It feels slower and more inconsistent than 1511, and even that was a far cry from the rock solid stability of Windows 7 or even 8. It feels like they're just piling on the bloat of the OS at this point again, especially with the Anniversary Update, something which the Windows 7/8 team worked so hard to avoid over the years.

    Microsoft needs to take a year or more to just scale back the development of major new features a bit and just start sorting out the bloat and the inconsistencies. Stability is important.

    • 5411

      I too was quite happy with win 8 even happier with 8.1 both had been solid for me (yes with mouse and keyboard).

      "Power Users" and "Tech Bloggers" began to chirp no start button (If power users, they would not use the start button in the first place) The Fisher Price look (Ok one click on the win key and you are on the desktop) Windows 8 is a touch or mobile OS, really I was using it on my desktop PC with a mouse and keyboard and ran into zero Problems.

      So Win 10 was born, in my eyes a bastard hybrid rushed to please the power users, tech bloggers and other fictional characters found on the interweb. This is what they asked for and this what they get.

      • 5530

        Well, I wouldn't blame just power users, as regular normal users couldn't cope with Windows 8's interface too. But the thing with Windows 8 is that it was just as stable as Windows 7 despite adding all the new features. And it also added new features to the desktop, like the new task manager and file explorer features that I still enjoy using in Windows 10 today. So yeah. Looking beyond the bad start screen experience, it was a solid OS underneath, and the Windows 8.1 update gave nice concessions to mouse+kb users, making it much more usable. I never got a bluesceen on my laptop while running Windows 8, but i've had a few bluescreens with Windows 10. Coming from such a high level of reliability, one bluescreen is too many.

  36. 533

    All of my main PC's are on the release preview. Desktop updated fine, but Surface Pro 4 and Surface Pro 3 had this issue. So why they released this to the public is a mystery to me.

  37. 809

    Worked for me on a boot camp installation

  38. 1377

    Run Windows in a VM under a Linux host. When not updating, Windows run fine. When it is updating, Linux runs fine.

    I wonder whether MSFT or anyone else has done a statistical analysis of Windows updates, specifically whether the number of problems with particular updates correlates positively with the size of the updates. If that were the case, huge cumulative updates may turn out to be a very bad idea.

    FWLIW, the update from a few weeks ago stalled at 94% on my machine. I had to download the full .MSU file and install it locally. That leads me to wonder whether the .MSU files, the Windows Update mechanism itself, or the combined download+install process is the main problem. FWIW, Debian-flavored Linux's apt-get downloads .deb files via wget then installs from those local files using dpkg. Maybe Windows needs something closer to that approach.

  39. 229

    50% success story here. The most irritating is my Surface 3. Yep, it was in the Preview until 1607. Fails, uninstalls itself, fails, uninstalls itself .... My 4 year old desktop (HP with an I7) updated without issue.

    Mediocrity seems to be  acceptable performance standard at Microsoft. Last I heard "close enough" ony works with hand grenades and pitching horse shoes. WE could use a little excellence. 

    • 1488

      My Surface 3 updated without issue. It is the long standing issues that are bugging me. Poor battery life, static in the speakers or sound driver quits working and I have to reboot it to clear it up. I have a Lenovo T430S that runs flawlessly. You would think Microsoft would at least make sure their products run correctly.

  40. 452

    Had no problems on 6 dofferent machines - all different configs.

    I think reason for having had no problems was that I downloaded the Anniversary Update to USB and reinstalled from USB rather than using the Windows Update routine. 

    Windows 10 has been working perfectly for me.


  41. 15

    In the last two days, I have had two that failed the first try, but worked out of it and correctly installed the second time for those machines.  Another 2 machines went slow but completed the first time.  I am having a tough time with the 1511 to 1607 as we live in a rural area and people thing the computer is running slow, but MS is downloading this big update without their knowledge.


  42. 996

    Mine got stuck at 95% downloading. Then about 6-7 hours later decided to finish. But I had the patch issues with the last one where it failed to install and went into the vicious loop cycle as you described. It's very painfull.

  43. 5234

    ...and people wonder why Windows systems aren't the primary offering in my shop anymore.

    • 5027

      Well what are you offering then .. because nothing is flawless.  I'm guessing you are not selling anything from Apple right?  Is it just computers running Linux and FreeBSD ? (and those updates fails at times as well, causing constant reboots). 

      Just recently we bought 2 MacBook Pro's, both with all Apple accessories .. both had Bluetooth fail over and over again .. because of a bug in El Capitain .  how old is El Capitain ? How can Apple still have this fail, they control all the hardware, all they need to do is write an OS for the hardware design they made, vs Microsoft that need to make a OS that works on all types of hardware.. in all kinds of wierd configurations.

      Worst part is that this was not a rare occation .. anyone I talked with about this is issue was like "yeah ,ther is a bug in El Capitain ..been there for a while .. only thing that helps is to manually delete the bluetooh plist file and reset SMC/NVRAM , but there should be an update out not that should fix it finally"   

      All systems has issues at times.. Windows is not an exception, no system is 

  44. 5639

    I have to admit.  I have stayed on 1511 because these botched updates have really spooked me.  First it was 1607 and now this.  I am glad I paid for a Pro license and flipped that do not upgrade switch.  When my computer is not needed for school and those critical tasks I will test the waters.  But for now my trust level in microsoft is at an all time low.  Even the office 365 update at work totally pooched all my login credentials with our corporate sharepoint site, minor but I have become real sensitive to updates becomming memorable after they have installed.

    I probally need to start snapshoting my computer because I am sure its only a matter of time before it happens to me. 

  45. 587

    No issues for me luckily, and I work remote tech support and none for my clients today, but that's only a very small sample size of 20 machines, consider ourselves lucky!

  46. 5641

    For me - I was able to upgrade a Lenovo Ideapad (had never participated in Insider Program) but not my Bootcamp Partition ( was in Slow ring but removed back to Production Ring). Could this be linked to the issue?

  47. 633

     I've pretty much stayed booted into my Win7 partition. I have not booted into Win10 for a few weeks to update. I am hesitant now.

  48. 4554

    On a clean install first I got a fail and a retry. It then retried on its own sometime later and now .222 and it seems to work fine, FWIW, this machine is an SSD for C:\

  49. 412

    I can also confirm problems. My Dad called me last night, saying his PC won't boot due to a missing NTLDR file. I couldn't explain it and did a lot of checking. I am betting this is to blame...after 2-3 boot attempts, he did get it booted up but he will not turn off until a fix. 

    • 5027

      Semes they made some changes to Secureboot recently in a update some weeks ago, jsut after AU got relesed, (because of the security issue that got leaked) I had several computers indicate changes where made to BIOS .. on one computer the harddrive was not found at all even. Then I turned it off, and left the computer turned off for a compule of minutes. Then everything worked fine again.  Not that I think MS did anything to the BIOS of a random manufacturers motherbord, but seems they did something to the secureboot certificates that casue some computers to flip out for a short bit and not find the harddrive until a cold reboot

  50. 2946

    During the download it gets to a point where it stops downloading.  At that point rebooting will allow it to partially install and complete the download.  I actually had to do this  twice.  The third time the whole thing installed.  While the upgrade was a pain, the result was worth it since it addressed a bunch of issues with notifications causing my system to freeze. 

  51. 1057

    It failed for me on the first install, but the second time it worked fine. I guess I was lucky.


    I've also heard reports of it breaking Chrome for some, which would be a frustrating problem to have.

  52. 5486

    Gotta say - overall confidence in Microsoft's ability to deliver ANYTHING reliable these days is at rock bottom. This new 'as a service' model just isn't working. If consumers are p*ssed, imagine reaking this havoc on enterprises! Luckily, the vast majority are still running Windows 7, which is still the benchmark for Microsoft operating systems. Windows 10 doesn't come close.

  53. 5477

    I wonder objectively what is more stable, a build of like Debian or a build of Windows 10? Linux is socially engineered and has a huge community. If say, a build of Debian was breaking webcams, users would have reacted, and it would be fixed right away. However , Windows 10 that has a Windows Insider community, that Microsoft is supposedly listening to. It requires a certain amount of upvotes for an issue to be acknowledged. Even if an issue in the Insider Hub has alot of upvotes, Microsoft may never see it. 

  54. 5646

    I had this pronlem. Overcame it by initiating a manual Download & install of the Kb package. In settings - update select information on latest updates you should be taken to a page showing all recent update package with standalone installers. Download, install & reboot.

  55. 899

    50% success (or failure) rate here. Lenvo T530 updated fine. Surface Pro 3 failed to update three times before I stopped trying. This is the first time a Win 10 update has failed on one of my PCs. A little irritating and disturbing, I must admit.

  56. 887

    My primary Windows machine updated perfectly as I simply woke up to a restarted computer.

  57. 5387

    I've had problems as of late with stuck installs at 78% for the last 2 or 3 updates.  I can fix it by pulling out my SD card storage, but I haven't generally had a problem with this.  The bigger issue is that I don't know if that fix is widely documented in the support site.

    Biggest issue I have now with 14396 - My keyboard doesn't work on startup.  I have to disconnect my Type keyboard and reconnect.  After a couple of seconds, it works.

    And what's the deal with the 8/29/16 Hardware Update being reinstalled at every update.  Isn't that a firmware update?  Why am I loosing it?

  58. 1463

    My Lenovo t420s updated with no issues.

  59. 6986

    The elephant in the room is that instead of getting a rubbish version of windows every 4 - 5 years which we can avoid, we now get one every 6 months and we are forced to install it! I can't spend hours diagnosing problems after an update bricks my computer I need to use it for work. Anniversary update messed with my SATA chain twice! so I had to revert. I hope they don't push it down again!

  60. 5647

    Microsoft will **NEVER** fix their quality control issues.  I say this as an insider.  Know why?  Their QA issues are *cultural*.  They still operate how 1980s software shops worked.  They still treat QA as some thing you "add on later" as opposed to something that is integrated into every single step of the development process.  The reason they do this is that their management is mostly made up of people who grew up in the era when "developer" meant "sling shitty code around and berate test engineers when they find bugs".  So although any developer who came out of school since about 1996 knows that's a stupid way to run a company, their **management** still doesn't get it, so they push developers to write more and more shitty code without testing it well, and then "let the QA engineers find any bugs".

    It's ironic too.  The rest of the world made this turn like 10 - 15 years ago.  Hell, software developers in backward old BANKS do this shit now, but not Microsoft.  Their PRODUCT people are even struggling with this, because their customers are demanding it (see how TFS has evolved over the past 3 years or so), but Microsoft itself **still** doesn't get it.  Their cultural blind spot is so strong that they can literally have customer demanding changes in their software development tooling that they themselves don't understand.

    • 5504

      I disagree. The 1980s QA was far superior to the typical QA process now. Developers have allways been part of the testing process, but removing the "added on" QA is the root of today's reliability problems. 

    • 5496

      Sounds like you shouldn't be using insiders then.

      insiders are the testers.

    • 5592

      This is actually a reply to "greevous"' post but the bug in the new posting software, ironically, makes it show up attached to the wrong post...

      I'm not sure what kind of an Insider you are (perhaps you mean you use the Windows Insider builds) but as somebody who has worked on multiple projects at Microsoft for multiple teams at multiple groups at Microsoft over many years I haven't seen a team doing waterfall methodology (what you describe) in literally decades.

      • 5234

        I hate to ask this, but when did you last work at Microsoft?  Have you worked under Sinovsky-era Windows team?  And have you worked under Nadella in his current position?  Microsoft got rid of a whole bunch of internal QA testers just in the last few years, and the Windows Insider program is only 2 years old - likely to replace them.  I asked a few QA companies lately about this, and although a few years ago, Microsoft was all-in on hiring large QA companies to do more testing, so much so that companies were on huge hiring sprees with job postings all over the place, yet most of those contracts are over with, and some of those same QA companies closed up shop because Microsoft was their biggest employer and isn't interested in professional QA anymore.  It's like they just want a bunch of unpaid amateurs to do that work now: Insiders that don't know how to document bugs properly.  I mean, the Insider program is a bit of a joke when things like colour and icon preferences get precedent over critical workflow bugs because of the voting mechanism.

  61. 217

    What a sh1t show Windows 10 has turned out to be. The AU acts odd on my newly built custom rig. I have two drives, primary on SSD and storage on a spinning drive. When my PC goes to sleep, so does my spinning drive. I need to reboot the PC or nothing I have installed on my second drive works. So stupid.