Mozilla Calls on Apple to Make a Privacy Improvement

While it appreciates Appleā€™s stance on privacy, Mozilla is calling on the firm to make a change that would improve customer privacy even further.

ā€œEach iPhone that Apple sells comes with a unique ID (called an ā€œidentifier for advertisersā€ or IDFA), which lets advertisers track the actions users take when they use apps,ā€ Mozillaā€™s Ashley Boyd explains. ā€œItā€™s like a salesperson following you from store to store while you shop and recording each thing you look at. Not very private at all.ā€

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The good news? You can turn this feature off, and if youā€™re using an iPhone—and are concerned about privacy—you may want to do just that. (Hereā€™s how.)

The bad news, of course, is that most people are simply unaware of this option and that Apple leaves it enabled by default.

ā€œWeā€™re asking Apple to change the unique IDs for each iPhone every month,ā€ Boyd continues. ā€œYou would still get relevant ads ā€” but it would be harder for companies to build a profile about you over time.ā€

And if you agree with this need, Mozilla has set up an online petition so you can register your vote and hopefully inspire Apple to make the iPhone even more privacy-friendly.

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Conversation 29 comments

  • dontbe evil

    15 April, 2019 - 12:22 pm

    <p>curios to see apple response, if will be any</p>

    • Winner

      16 April, 2019 - 12:27 pm

      <blockquote><em><a href="#420874">In reply to dontbe_evil:</a></em></blockquote><p>I expect they'll ignore it.</p>

  • BeckoningEagle

    Premium Member
    15 April, 2019 - 12:30 pm

    <p>They should make it opt-in and that way they would not look like hypocrites.</p>

    • wright_is

      Premium Member
      16 April, 2019 - 2:58 am

      <blockquote><em><a href="#420881">In reply to BeckoningEagle:</a></em></blockquote><p>In Europe, it has to be opt-in already. But they ignore that, for the time being.</p>

  • dcdevito

    15 April, 2019 - 12:45 pm

    <p>Iā€™m all for it. But how does Firefox feel about Android??</p>

    • IanYates82

      Premium Member
      15 April, 2019 - 5:19 pm

      <blockquote><em><a href="#420885">In reply to dcdevito:</a></em></blockquote><p>I guess they're calling out hypocrisy – Google / Android doesn't make a virtue of being the privacy-focussed phone to anywhere near the same extent as Apple does with iPhone.</p>

  • waethorn

    15 April, 2019 - 1:06 pm

    <p>Mozilla is far from the ones that should be trumpeting privacy.</p><p><br></p><p>Let see: there's the Mr. Robot crap, they're recommending random low-quality extensions based on your browser history, they're still taking money from Google, they have telemetry turned on by default, not notifying users of what permissions Pocket has to your bookmarks, recommend security extensions that send user info to a server in Germany, exposing passwords of over 4000 users in the Mozilla Developer Network, and so on.</p>

  • waethorn

    15 April, 2019 - 1:26 pm

    <p> Let me correct this:</p><p><br></p><p>"<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Each cellphone (smart or not) that any cellphone carrier/maker sells comes with a unique ID (called an ā€œIMEIā€), which lets carriers (and all software developers that support that phone) track or collect the user's location when their phone is on or in standby, regardless of WiFi or cellular data enable status, either in real-time or when a network connection is established later"</span></p><p><br></p><p>As far as this goes:</p><p><br></p><p>"<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Itā€™s like a salesperson following you from store to store while you shop and recording each thing you look at"</span></p><p><br></p><p>The microphones on smartphones are always on, recording everything you say, as well as audible and inaudible sound signals in the area, thanks to a patent by Google, used by Apple, that can detect hyper-sonic sound signals from broadcast sources like TV's and other electronic devices.</p><p><br></p><p>"Not very private at all.ā€</p><p><br></p><p>By design.</p>

    • bellbm

      15 April, 2019 - 1:56 pm

      <blockquote><em><a href="#420895">In reply to Waethorn:</a></em></blockquote><p><br></p><p>"Recording everything you say" is taking it a bit too far. The microphones are listening for the key words to activate their voice assistants. Once the assistant is activated the processing kicks in, and each company has its own methods of recording and retention of that information. The listening feature can also be disabled on the iPhone during initial setup and at any time through the Settings app. I'm assuming it can be disabled on Android as well.</p>

      • waethorn

        15 April, 2019 - 4:34 pm

        <blockquote><em><a href="#420914">In reply to bellbm:</a></em></blockquote><p>That's a naive belief that is proven to be completely false, and a lie of marketing. You can't process audio for only "keywords" without processing the rest. And ALL of that processing is done in the cloud. And no, it can't be disabled.</p>

        • Jason Peter

          15 April, 2019 - 6:01 pm

          <blockquote><a href="#420956"><em>In reply to Waethorn:</em></a><em> </em><span style="background-color: rgb(245, 245, 245);">The microphones on smartphones are always on, recording everything you say, as well as audible and inaudible sound signals in the area, thanks to a patent by Google, used by Apple, that can detect hyper-sonic sound signals from broadcast sources like TV's and other electronic devices.</span></blockquote><blockquote><br></blockquote><blockquote>That's a naive belief that is proven to be completely false, and a lie of marketing. You can't process audio for only "keywords" without processing the rest. And ALL of that processing is done in the cloud. And no, it can't be disabled.</blockquote><p><br></p><p>Iā€™m calling BS on this. Any evidence to back up these assertions?</p><p><br></p><p>Detecting ā€œHey Siriā€ is performed on the device, not in the cloud. Nothing is recorded until Siri is activated by the ā€œHey Siriā€ command. At that point, the query is recorded and sent to Apples servers (which Apples been fully upfront about from the start). </p><p>iPhones and iPads are more than capable of detecting ā€œHey Siriā€ onboard the device without sending this data to Apples servers. </p><p><br></p><p>https://machinelearning.apple.com/2017/10/01/hey-siri.html</p><p><br></p><p>Plenty of testing has been done by security professionals and journalists over the years to prove this. Constant data being sent back and forth by 24/7 recordings alone would cause a massive surge in data being sent to Apple, which would be easily detected. Im sure someone would have picked up on this since 2013 were it true. And yet, weā€™ve heard nothing in the last six years.</p><p><br></p><p><br></p>

          • Greg Green

            18 April, 2019 - 9:09 am

            <blockquote><a href="#420983"><em>In reply to Jason_P:</em></a></blockquote><p>Itā€™s not necessarily Apple, though they do have to listen to everything to get key words, itā€™s Snapchat and other apps that listen with Siri and do their own thing with the info.</p><p><br></p><p>See Vice, Your Phone Is Listening and it's Not Paranoia</p><p>Here's how I got to bottom of the ads-coinciding-with-conversations mystery.</p><p><br></p><p>A similar thing happened to my wife. One day sheā€™s talking to the kids about lockpicks with the iPhone in the other side of the room and the next day her iPhone shows her an ad for lockpicks.</p>

        • Winner

          16 April, 2019 - 12:26 pm

          <blockquote><em><a href="#420956">In reply to Waethorn:</a></em></blockquote><p>On my Google Pixel, I can even be offline and it can still do full voice recognition/transcription. All in-device. So you are incorrect.</p>

        • YouWereWarned

          16 April, 2019 - 4:09 pm

          <blockquote><em><a href="#420956">In reply to Waethorn:</a></em></blockquote><p>Well, the local client device COULD recognize a single trained activation word–shouldn't need the cloud. But whether my still-in-use Invoke is sending "other sounds" could be detected by putting a packet sniffer into your home network. The fact that I've never heard of anyone detecting curious transmissions (I've NOT searched seriously on this) from an Invoke suggests it isn't happening.</p><p>If it is, "eff Satya".</p>

      • Greg Green

        18 April, 2019 - 8:05 am

        <blockquote><em><a href="#420914">In reply to bellbm:</a></em></blockquote><p>In order to hear the key word the phone has to listen to everything all the time.</p>

    • wright_is

      Premium Member
      16 April, 2019 - 7:12 am

      <blockquote><em><a href="#420895">In reply to Waethorn:</a></em></blockquote><p>Developers usually don't get access to the IMEI, that is a system parameter that only very few applications can get access to, on most phones.</p><p><br></p>

  • StevenLayton

    15 April, 2019 - 1:36 pm

    <p>Hey, Apple makes so little profit on their phones, I'm disappointed that some people hrre want them to remove this small extra revinue stream. They have families to feed…. </p>

  • Brett Barbier

    15 April, 2019 - 4:25 pm
    • waethorn

      15 April, 2019 - 4:39 pm

      <blockquote><a href="#420955"><em>In reply to Brett_B:</em></a></blockquote><p><br></p><p>"<span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(22, 29, 39);">Apple itself is strident about how your data remains your data."</span></p><p><br></p><p><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(22, 29, 39);">Facebook said the same thing too, and look how that turned out. Remember, this is the defence of a pro-Apple site.</span></p><p><br></p><p>Aside from that, anybody that gets fooled by yet another "Sign this petition. Give us your email address." should be ridiculed right off the Internet. </p>

      • Jason Peter

        15 April, 2019 - 5:21 pm

        <blockquote><a href="#420959"><em>In reply to Waethorn:</em></a><em> </em><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(22, 29, 39);">Facebook said the same thing too, and look how that turned out.</span></blockquote><p><br></p><p>Apples and oranges (Pun intended)</p><p><br></p><p>Apple doesnā€™t make money off of your information simply because Apple DOESNā€™T NEED TO!. They have more to lose than to gain by monetizing our information in a way that invades our privacy. In fact, it is more advantageous for them to incorporate such pro-privacy measures into their products, if at the least to be able to use it as a sales/branding bullet-point.</p><p><br></p><p>Facebook doesnā€™t possess such scruples. Like Google, their primary source of revenue is by convincing you to give up as much personally identifiable information as possible in which to <span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">monetize through improve advertising and sales of such information to 3rd parties.</span></p><p><br></p><p>Facebook and Google do what they do because their revenue stream depends on it. As such, it is not surprising. It's in their nature. But for Apple, such measures would gain them little at best, and at worst cost them much more in lost sales.</p><p><br></p><p>Simply put, your statement has no merit where Apple is concerned. Charging premium prices? No argument there. Premium price increases during rare sales decreases? Ditto. Those are valid arguments. But Apple would be slitting their own throats if there were even a whiff of controversy concerning mishandling of user data and privacy. Theres simply no motive for them – in fact, it is obvious that there is motive for them to go out of their way to protect user data and privacy. </p><p><br></p><p>Are their measures perfect? Hell, no. Their is much they could do to improve their privacy measures (such as strengthen security). But regardless of what weaknesses they perhaps need to overcome, their protection of customer privacy and handling of information is far and above that of their competitors.</p><p><br></p><p><br></p>

    • wright_is

      Premium Member
      16 April, 2019 - 7:10 am

      <blockquote><em><a href="#420955">In reply to Brett_B:</a></em></blockquote><p>It isn't as bad as Google/Android, but I will add, whilst changing the ID every month will bring a little anonymity, I'd rather that they pressured Apple to turn it off by default… Which is the legal requirement for the devices on sale in Europe.</p>

  • truerock2

    15 April, 2019 - 6:53 pm

    <p>Google and Facebook seem to get most of the bad press about privacy – but, I've always had my biggest problems with LinkedIn (owned by Microsoft).</p><p><br></p><p>Today – once again – somehow LinkedIn snagged my gmail address book (I think). I don't think it was my Outlook address book. A friend told me she was getting weird emails from me about LinkedIn from my LinkedIn account.</p><p><br></p><p>So – it's been several years – maybe a decade or so – I was once again deleting my contacts out of LinkedIn. </p><p><br></p><p>It really bothers me because I know I did not give my contacts to LinkedIn. How did LinkedIn get my contacts?</p><p><br></p><p>Apple… Apple really doen't bother me in regard to privacy issues.</p><p><br></p>

    • minke

      16 April, 2019 - 7:42 am

      <blockquote><em><a href="#420999">In reply to truerock2:</a></em></blockquote><p>I deleted my LinkedIn account. Absolutely the worst for spamming. Some think you must have a profile there for job hunting, but in my experience it is mostly head hunters that roam there. Create your own web page you can manage yourself without dealing with all the LinkedIn garbage.</p>

  • JerryH

    Premium Member
    15 April, 2019 - 7:55 pm

    <p>you'd still get relevant ads? Since when have I ever gotten relevant ads? Do they mean "relevant" in that I get ads for Nest cameras for two years after I bought a bunch? Or maybe the ads I get for all of the other things that I already bought? That's the "relevant" ads I get now. I'd prefer these jokers who know only that I once visited a web page and don't seem to know that they closed the sale wouldn't be able to track at all and just gave me random ads. After all it is no worse getting ads for something I would never buy than it is getting ads for stuff I have already purchased. Arghh!</p>

    • wright_is

      Premium Member
      16 April, 2019 - 7:00 am

      <blockquote><em><a href="#421028">In reply to JerryH:</a></em></blockquote><p>Yep, I bought a new dishwasher from Amazon last week, got a list of 5 dishwashers through this morning and "this might be of interest" section also showing nothing but dishwashers! How many kitchens do they think I have?!?!</p>

  • Lordbaal

    16 April, 2019 - 11:47 am

    <p>So what are they asking Apple to exactly do?</p><p>Apple already gives the option to turn it off.</p>

    • jgraebner

      Premium Member
      17 April, 2019 - 2:15 am

      <blockquote><a href="#421182"><em>In reply to Lordbaal:</em></a></blockquote><p>The article says exactly what they are asking Apple to do…</p>

  • randallcorn

    Premium Member
    16 April, 2019 - 1:18 pm

    <p>Relevant ads are a hit and miss. Most of the time I get an add for something I just purchased. I JUST PURCHASED IT! Show me accessories or something.</p><p><br></p><p>Saying nothing new. Just wanted to say it.</p>

  • provision l-3

    16 April, 2019 - 4:01 pm

    <p>Apple has a pretty lengthy explanation of how ad tracking is done and it isn't what Mozilla is describing. I'm guessing they are either misinformed or they some sort of proof that Apple isn't being straight forward. If it is the latter they should just come out with it. </p>

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