Exclusive: Windows 10 S is Dead, Long Live S Mode

Posted on February 3, 2018 by Brad Sams in Windows 10 with 89 Comments

When Microsoft announced Windows 10 S, it was immediately clear that this SKU didn’t fit well into Microsoft’s lineup. It was pitched as a complete product and that it could also be upgraded (for free) to a full version of Windows but based on documents I was able to view, Microsoft is changing course with Redstone 4 to make the idea of S fit better into the company’s portfolio of Windows 10.

Microsoft pitches Windows 10 S as being streamlined for security/performance and while this isn’t new information, what we do have is a better understanding of how often users switch away from S.

On third-party devices, Microsoft says that 60% of users remain on Windows 10 S which is a lot higher than I thought it would be but when users do switch, it’s almost immediately. The company says 60% of those who switch, do so within 24hrs of having the device but if they don’t switch in the first seven days, 83% remain running in S mode.

Keep in mind that these stats are for low-end PCs as the only high-end device running the OS is the Surface Laptop which was excluded from the data.

Going forward, Windows 10 S will no longer be a SKU offered by Microsoft. Instead, what they will be doing is offering S mode for all iterations of Windows 10 and frankly, this is a much better approach to the configurations.

For Home and Education SKUs, you will be able to upgrade from Home S, to Home for free but Pro users going from Pro S to Pro will be charged $49. On the commercial side, Pro S is only available with Core, Value, Entry, and Small Tablet (if this doesn’t make sense, check out my other post here) with Core+ and Workstations being left out of the offering.

Here is the odd part about this change, Microsoft says that there will be AV/Security apps in S mode. Does this mean that traditional AV software from third-party companies will run in S mode? If so, doesn’t this break the entire premise of what S mode is supposed to be and undercuts the performance aspect of the mode? I suspect that Microsoft will clarify these changes to us in the near future but for now, Windows 10 S Mode appears to break the original announcement.

This type of an S-mode only Windows world has been speculated since last fall at Ignite when Microsoft announced an S-mode for frontline workers. Now, after viewing the internal roadmap for Redstone 4 and beyond, it’s official that S-Mode for all SKUs of Windows 10 is the path forward.

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Comments (89)

89 responses to “Exclusive: Windows 10 S is Dead, Long Live S Mode”

  1. jimchamplin

    Starting with RS4, will users be able to switch to S mode on existing systems? Pro has offered the switch to disable non-store sources since 1703, right? Will that be extended to enable the full S mode?

    • hrlngrv

      In reply to jimchamplin:

      Picky: Windows 10 Pro machines set to install new software only from the Store will run already installed software NOT from the Store as well as most portable software. As I understand it, Windows 10 S only runs bundled software, software from the Store, and a few bits & pieces from MSFT some of which Paul mentioned in an article a few weeks ago. That last implies S mode has either white list or digital signature acceptance facilities.

      • jimchamplin

        In reply to hrlngrv:

        There are quite a few other differences. Access to the console is blocked, so no cmd or pwsh. That's also why WSL doesn't run in S, and I think some of the MMC snap-ins are blocked. Essentially, anything that would let you change the way the OS operates is blocked.

        It would be nice to be able to get a box configured for a relative like a technophobic parent, then switch it to S mode.

        • jimchamplin

          In reply to hrlngrv:

          Not that it says in the articles, which was the reason for my original question.

          And in this case, they would not be better served with a Chromebook. Without knowing the requirements of the situation, one should not make unilateral statements.

          My mother is big into sewing and requires Windows applications to manage the library of stitches and embroidery patterns in her machines. If S mode were able to be activated arbitrarily, then the system could be configured, this specialized software installed, then locked.

          Simple as that.

          There’s a need to run specific legacy software, a desire to lock the machine, a lack of funds and desire to replace the machine - especially since its replacement may not be any different. Sure would be nice to know if existing installs can have S mode turned on!

          Which is why I asked the question. To find out. Since you seem to often need to offer a rebuttal to me, it would seem you purport to have a lot of answers. Do you have this one?

          • hrlngrv

            In reply to jimchamplin:

            Agreed about years old hobbyist software. My uses a knitting pattern editor from XP days. Nothing remotely like it in the Store, and it hasn't been actively developed for nearly a decade, so it's unlikely ever to be packaged for the Store.

            If switching into S mode leaves everything already installed in place and executable, fine, but that's not my understanding how Windows 10 S worked, so I'm skeptical S mode would be any different in that respect.

  2. Ugur

    If they do it right it is a very good strategy, i feel like they listened to me asking for this repeatedly.

    The way S Mode makes sense is if it is, yes, just a more secure mode of any other Windows version which one can toggle on and off for any user account by using the admin user to do it.

    Once that works in quick to toggle on/off when wanted way in non destructive way (you don’t loose anything when toggled), that’s a big improvement and would make people be more accepting of S as more secure setting for pupils, small kids, old parents or maybe some employees etc.

    To be really cool though, one should then as admin also be able to set exceptions for which desktop/32/64/x86 apps are still allowed to be run in S Mode for this user or all users in S Mode.

    Then it would be really cool and i imagine a lot of people would actually use it for themselves intentionally and tioggle it on for themselves, at least in between and maybe over time more and more or even longterm, because as example, unless someone is a gamer/graphic artist or similar kind of "creative/developer/researcher etc type person", so more a regular joe/jane, for most such people S (secure) mode would already offer them all they want if they could "just" enable the 1-5 desktop apps they still want to use in it, like let’s say Chrome or iTunes or whatever it is for that person, maybe it is some printing device handling app or whatever.

    Good on MS for listening to me or whoever else brought exactly this up, this is a much more sense making good way to do it that can be way more appealing when implemented properly.

    • RobertJasiek

      In reply to Ugur:

      Instead of believing the "more secure" tale, think of it the other way round: Microsoft still designs non-S modes as less secure for no good reason. Security must not be partial but the available security means must be applied to all softwares.

      • Ugur

        In reply to RobertJasiek: No, that's not true.
        With more power comes more responsibility. It is fine and to be expected from a desktop OS that the user, at least the admin, should have full deciding power over what may or may not run on a machine.
        If he/she decides for themselves or their users that they should only run UWP apps or only UWP apps+these x desktop apps we selected, that should be up to them.

        The statement "Security must not be partial but the available security means must be applied to all softwares." is nonsense in my eyes. Let's say eating lots of candy is unhealthy. Should now all parents ban all candy from their houses? Some may decided to do so, some may allow some in and some consumption, that's totally fine.

        It's nonsense to ask for always enforcing the most secure option and no other, because then the computers/OS would be so limited and restricted that they would indeed not be usable for tasks power users expect to be able to run on them/basically the reason they buy the things for.

        It is a fine balance when one for example buys a laptop fo a home usage and while one uses it oneself as power user enables all he pro desktop apps and when the small kid uses it one sets it to s mode and maybe enabled one desktop app one knows is secure and wants to let the kid use and that's it, still prevented it from using many other potentially harmful things or downloading random.exe from some minecraft promoting site the kid likes..

        • RobertJasiek

          In reply to Ugur:

          We agree that maximal security is not always needed (but should be available). However, my point is that AppContainers are applied to apps but Windows 10 does not offer an easy way for the user to apply them to x32 and x64 softwares and configure this in the command line and PowerShell. SIDs and ACLs are available for everything else so it cannot be rocket science to also make AppContainers available. It is just a political decision not to do so to sell S mode as "more secure" (which it is not anyway because security is also configured by other means, such as access rights, user accounts, software restriction policies and integrity levels).

          • Ugur

            In reply to RobertJasiek:

            Yeah, i totally agree on that point, it should be easy for the user to turn any Win 32 app into a UWP app and it should also be possible to easily share UWP apps (outside the store, so one can just download it and double click it to run it), that MS has not done this is one of the main points holding back UWP so far.

            One of the main great sides about mac apps is that most of them seemingly (to the user) come as a single icon/app file one can download and just move anywhere on the system and click it to run it, drag it to the dock (task bar on mac) to pin it to that, drag it out to unpin it, move it to the trash can to delete it (uninstall not required).

            MS has to get at least to that level of comfort and easy of use (and easy isolation and management and distribution) with both win 32 and UWP apps.

            One can try to tout UWP all one wants, if the only way to share and get UWP apps is via the store which right now is a pile of trash, both in content and UI, well..

            • skane2600

              In reply to Ugur:

              It isn't even easy for developers to turn their own Win32 program into a UWP app.

              • Ugur

                In reply to skane2600: Yes, i know, i actually tried it once, it was a convoluted cumbersome procedure. Ideally it should be as easy as opening a visual UI where one can select the folder (of assets etc) of an app and the main app file (exe) and push a button and it should give one a (containerized sentenial i guess) uwp app.
                if it's anything more involved than that for basic conversion, they are doing it wrong.

    • hrlngrv

      In reply to Ugur:

      What you're describing is finer grained ACLs. S mode could just be a package of ACL settings which restrict everything. That'd be good, but I doubt we'll see that in the next 5 years.

      • Ugur

        In reply to hrlngrv: yes, s mode settings adjustments could be added to acl, too of course but what i'm asking for is that one can adjust it by itself in most quick to access way and simplest way possible, so people actually do it regularly, that way use it way more often than they would if it is over complex too far away/too cumbersome for average joe.
        Think of how privacy/incognito mode works/is toggled quickly/easily in chrome and other browsers , where one can just say open a new tab in incognito mode.
        It should be that easy and quick to get in and out of S mode (if one has admin login/priviliges or the admin account gave that user account the rights to toggle s mode).
        So i could maybe just click on a button in the task bar or on my user account name to toggle it on and off and right click that icon for more settings like adjusting which desktop apps are allowed to run in s mode.

        Make it handy and nice and convenient to use, and hey, people might just use it.

    • Stooks

      In reply to Ugur:

      The problem is consumers get lost in this constant change of skew/licensing.

      If a new computer comes with Windows 10 Home S mode in the future and they try to install their copy of Quicken 2016, or whatever and it does not work because their new computer is in S mode until they "upgrade" it, they WILL NOT be happy.

      MacOS, one version, free upgrades, NO BS.

      • Ugur

        In reply to Stooks: I agree the so many versions of Windows is nonsense at this point.
        With S Mode (instead of trying to brand it/have it be usable like a separate Windows SKU again) is it's a move towards a better direction.
        I'd like it that if they decide to ship some comps with S Mode enabled preinstalled (no matter if the mode one can switch away to is Home or Pro), it would do it similarly as macOS does, which is when one tries to run/install desktop apps, it shows a popup which says something like "Running Desktop apps not enabled in Secure Mode"
        And then It maybe has 3 buttons:
        -Switch to full Home/Pro Desktop Mode
        -Allow running this app in Secure Mode

        And the first two require admin login. The second option could bring up a panel where one can see a list of all desktop apps and toggle on/off running them in s mode with a checkbox next to them to add them to the exceptions list.

        There are really many examples for how such things can be done, like the handling of non store apps on newer macOS versions, how to enable all/none, add exceptions one by one.
        Or again ad blocker settings or little snitch settings or the myriad of other apps where one can block all or add excpetions for some allowed etc.

    • skane2600

      In reply to Ugur:

      For the most part you can get this effect using standard Windows 10. Want to be extra secure? Then use UWP apps exclusively. Want to do something that requires more control or for legacy purposes, use Win32 apps. I don't see the value in the ability to enable the 1-5 desktop applications you want to use as opposed to just not installing desktop applications 6-?. Of course it's a myth that an UWP app is inherently more secure than a Win32 application inherently is.

      If you really need the "save us from ourselves" approach you can use a Chromebook or Windows 10 S.

      • Ugur

        In reply to skane2600: I don't need the "save us from ourselves" approach for myself, i use my windows desktops mainly for steam gaming and with my coding and game development tools/engines. So obviously me personally for my personal own usage, s mode is not appealing for myself most of the time i'd use the computer.
        But for example i'd feel better about letting my small nephew on the comp after having quickly toggled on s mode and maybe set it to allow the desktop game app he wants to run as exception allowed desktop app for him.
        I'd for example also feel better about letting old Moms/Dads/Grandparents etc use a comp with S Mode enabled and just the few desktop apps they want to use enabled as exception.
        Would prevent running downloaded harmful exes stuff the easy way.

        As Paul and many others have said, restricting it to UWP only apps in S Mode is not a plausible solution to most users right now, because even average joe/jane who does not make games in unity or whatever, still usually needs their at least 1-5 desktop apps.
        If they can't have those, well, no matter if it is called Windows 10 S or S Mode, it's not much use for them.
        but if oe could set to only run UWP apps+these hand selected desktop apps as eceptions, then all those (millions) of users who want security and only need to use few desktop apps could see s mode as viable more secure option and since already getting used to using it, then stepwise also look for more UP apps which they can use, too.
        Way better for MS than the alternative of most people either not buying a comp with windows 10 S preinstalled/as default setting or turning it off right away and newer turning it on again if it can't run the few desktop apps they need no matter what.

      • hrlngrv

        In reply to skane2600:

        . . . Of course it's a myth that an UWP app is inherently more secure than a Win32 application inherently is. . . .

        Not necessarily, but rephrase as UWP is unlikely to be more secure than Win32 software run in containers at least as secure as those used to run packaged desktop Store software, and you'd be dead right.

        Apparently the idea of a container or VM in which all Win32 software could be installed is either too difficult a computer science problem for anyone outside MSFT's Hyper-V team (and members of that team are apparently prevented from offering any suggestions outside their unit) or would be so contrary to MSFT's very clear goals and intentions that there's no chance it'd ever happen.

  3. RobertJasiek

    A decade ago, I suggested one Windows version with three GUI modes: simple, full, configurable. Now, a decade later, Microsoft finally learns and gets the simple versus full + configurable part almost right for S versus Pro but offers confusingly many Windows versions including Home, which should just be another GUI mode in a choice S versus Home versus Pro.

    During the decade, Microsoft lost huge percentages of market share to iOS and Chromebooks (simple GUIs and one OS version only) and Android (cheap hardware). The former loss has been mostly superfluous because Microsoft could have avoided it by following my advice immediately.

    Need more advice? All telemetry off by default; longeivity of the hardware incl. easy battery replacement and repair; no rip-off for batteries, repair and better configured devices. Will Microsoft need another decade to learn by losing more market share?

    • skane2600

      In reply to RobertJasiek:

      "During the decade, Microsoft lost huge percentages of market share to iOS and Chromebooks (simple GUIs and one OS version only) and Android (cheap hardware)."

      Simple UIs and limited capabilities go hand-in-hand just as cheap hardware does with reduced performance.

      • warren

        In reply to skane2600:

        Arguing that Windows lost marketshare to phones is stupid. It's like arguing that stoves lost marketshare to microwaves in the 1990s. Do you know anyone who replaced a stove with a microwave? No, of course not. Nobody did that.

        People own both computers and phones. People are still buying desktop and laptop computers. Companies are still replacing old computers with new ones. The pace of performance improvements has slowed in the 2010s compared to the 2000s so people are keeping hardware, but there is no mass exodus away from Windows. Not even to Apple products.

        • RobertJasiek

          In reply to warren:

          Uhm, but didn't Windows lose marketshare to phones very big indeed? Instead of the Windows Phone / Mobile mess, Microsoft would have needed a) timely recognition of the rise of smartphones, b) phone functionality in regular Windows, c) a phone mode of regular Windows besides S, Home and Pro modes and d) the possibility of temporarily outsourcing parts (winsxs, w32, .Net, shadow volumes etc.) of Windows not fitting the current storage and battery demands.

          • skane2600

            In reply to RobertJasiek:

            "Uhm, but didn't Windows lose marketshare to phones very big indeed? "

            Your implicit assumption is that PCs and smartphones are direct competitors. It's a common belief, but it hasn't been proven.

            What you can say is that in recent years PC sales have declined and smartphone sales have increased (although not in the very recent past), but looking at graphs of sales of the two over time suggests the correlation is weak. Of course correlation isn't necessarily causation in any case.

            • RobertJasiek

              In reply to skane2600:

              In the long term, all computing categories are mutually competitve. In the near future, we can expect reasonably working devices as small as smartphones capable of replacing office PCs. (And not just pretending to do so as currently.)

              • skane2600

                In reply to RobertJasiek:

                "In the long term, all computing categories are mutually competitve."

                You mean pacemakers will compete with smartphones some day?

                From a technological point of view, smartphones could have replaced PCs a decade ago. Technology isn't the problem, it's ergonomics. A small device is always going to be less useful for office work than a desktop machine.

        • skane2600

          In reply to warren:

          I agree. Perhaps you meant this as a reply to Robert.

  4. SocialDanny123

    So we can expect the amount of S devices to dramatically increase?

    • hrlngrv

      In reply to SocialDanny123:

      Or we can expect a dramatic increase in returned PCs.

      Or a dramatic increase in machines converted from S to non-S on the first day.

      Depends on what PC buyers really want. If they only want a browser, and Edge is OK, they may not notice they're in S mode.

      • SocialDanny123

        In reply to hrlngrv:

        Depends if they use Windows 10 Home S Mode. Which is fine, TBH I expect in the future, S Mode will be a setting in the Settings app. I expect that in the future we'll likely have a vast majority of PCs being shipped with Windows 10 Home S mode.

        Also I expect when users unlock Windows 10 it'll still have the popup warning people for installing outside Store apps and games.

  5. JustMe

    Leave it to Microsoft to do something good (reduce the number of SKUs), and completely muck up the end game (Pro S vs Pro vs Home S...whaaaa?)

    Brad - am I correct in presuming that OEMs will have the option to ship PCs with either Pro S or Pro? If I am inclined to buy a machine with Pro installed out of the box, why would I want the "S" version? As a follow-on, if someone purchases a box with Pro S installed, are OEMs required to charge $49 to upgrade to Pro? Or is that only done via Microsoft?

  6. Tony Barrett

    Is this seriously Microsoft's attempt to 'simplify' the lineup they offer? So, 10S is no more (a failed experiment if you like - MS are used to them). Now we have Home, Home S, Pro, Pro S, Education, Enterprise, ARM, Workstation, 10Mobile, Andromeda (or whatever that becomes) and multiple different operating modes in each one. Yeah, that's not confusing at all is it.

    Also, where exactly does that leave those 'K' schools in the US who might have bought into Microsofts 'vision' for 10S? I'll tell you where, they'll all be scurrying back to their Chromebooks, and never, ever trusting Microsoft again.

    • skane2600

      In reply to ghostrider:

      If it turns out there's both a Pro and Pro S, the latter isn't likely to sell well. If all that is offered is an upgradable Pro S, imagine how annoying it would be to pay twice to get the functionality that should be fundamental to a Windows product (particularly a Pro version). In that case Microsoft would be smarter just to raise the price of Pro S by $50 and make the upgrade free.

      This reminds me of MS's remedy for the poor reception of Windows 8. They brought back a Start Menu but couldn't resist putting live tiles in it. In this case the reception of Windows 10 S PCs was poor but they want to bring it back from the dead in a different way. Sometimes failed ideas just need to be abandoned even if you have to eat some crow.

  7. Stooks

    Windows RT, Windows 10 S or S mode and Windows 10 ARM. All will or have failed. All confuse the snot out consumers. None of them have or will last long.

    Microsoft has been told by so many people that their constant changing of product names, skews and licensing has always been a total cluster F but they keep doing it. How many versions of Windows 10 are there now? Don't tell me because I honestly do not care.

    It is like they are trying to kill the product we know as Windows.

  8. seapea

    So, will a user be able to flip in and out of S Mode?

  9. irfaanwahid

    What is difference in features between Home S and Pro S? A little lost here.

  10. Marius Muntean

    AV/Security apps in s mode will prove the MS once again has lied about stuff. PATHETIC. This company is getting more pathetic every day...

  11. skane2600

    Unless Microsoft doesn't offer OEMs any "clean" versions of Windows 10 they can ship with their PCs, I can't imagine why many would choose S-mode versions. For the vast majority of users S-mode is a disadvantage. Having S-mode as the default kind of sounds like "Start Screen 2.0". Maybe they could fix it in Windows 10 S mode 10.1 like they kind of, sort of, fixed Windows 8 with 8.1.

  12. skane2600

    Microsoft's idea that going from Windows 10 Home to Windows 10 S is an upgrade is a whole new kind of delusional.

    • jimchamplin

      In reply to skane2600:

      Got it backwards. Home will ship in S mode on some machines. Disabling it is only a reboot away.

      • skane2600

        In reply to jimchamplin:

        You're right, my mistake.

        But IMO shipping something called "Windows Home" that has reduced capabilities out-of-the-box relative to what Home has had since it was first introduced is a very bad strategy.

        It just indicates that Microsoft has learned nothing from the Windows 8 debacle.

        • jimchamplin

          In reply to skane2600:

          No, it’s simply in a mode that it can run in that will be enabled by default. When a user runs an application or installer for the first time, a rather well-designed message will appear and inform them their system is in S mode, explain the benefits of it, and offer to open the store OR they can turn S mode off. It’s one reboot and it’s done.

          Pretty streamlined process.

          • hrlngrv

            In reply to jimchamplin:

            . . . Pretty streamlined process.

            But still more user effort than previously. Remains to be seen, but I figure this won't improve Windows's popularity for those who mean to by Home SKU.

            • jimchamplin

              In reply to hrlngrv:

              And that right there is the issue. It relies on normal people to be able to operate on a level befitting having an IQ of 75 or higher.

              I work as a customer service specialist in retail and therefore see how many of these people interact with far simpler devices like smartphones. Sometimes I want to scream, “JUST GO TO THE ADDRESS I SAY, DO NOT SEARCH GOOGLE FOR IT!”

              This will be the “contact with the enemy” moment.

              • hrlngrv

                In reply to jimchamplin:

                . . . IQ of 75 or higher . . .

                I understand the sentiment. I've maintained too many spreadsheet and specialized in-house models not to be aware of the Immutable Law of User Ignorance and its corollary The Law of Ignorant Ingenuity (whereby the otherwise most clueless users will tend to come across the most bugs).

                OTOH, if one only wants to run a browser and a few other programs, how much would such users be expected to know?

                Making typical users do more work is inherently risky in terms of losing goodwill. MSFT may be taking a stupid risk. If OEMs have the option of configuring systems to be in non-S mode out of the box, then we'll see how many of them support MSFT's ambitions for S mode.

          • skane2600

            In reply to jimchamplin:

            Is this an actual description of how it works or speculation? A "well-designed message" doesn't sound like a fact.

            • jimchamplin

              In reply to skane2600:

              No, it’s not speculation. I’ve used Windows 10 S, both on a Surface Laptop and in a VM with the insider builds.

              The message shown to a user has an attractive, eye-catching graphic, with well-written copy about what is going on. The option to upgrade is offered after an attempt to sell the user on sticking with S.

              • skane2600

                In reply to jimchamplin:

                Your experience is with Windows 10 S not Windows S mode right? I assume the option you describe is to update from Windows 10 S to Windows 10 Pro while the S mode version would be, for example Windows 10 Home S mode to Windows 10 Home full.

    • NT6.1

      In reply to skane2600:

      They've been trying to make these "modern apps" happen since 2012. With no success. It's time to move on and fix Windows 10: remove all the UWP crap and bring the Win32 apps back and open a Win32 Store.

  13. SvenJ

    Are you saying I can't buy a consumer device with 10 Pro. It will come with 10 Pro S and I will have to get out a credit card when I get it home? So a Surface Book 2 won't have 'Pro' out of the box?

  14. yaddamaster

    Reseller: You can choose between these 15 confusing variants of Windows......or you can get a chromebook that does basically everything you really need.

    Consumer: ummmm

    Good to know that building 4 and 5 are still staffed by the same delusional and incompetent crazies who believe Microsoft can win by obfuscation. Not.

    • SWCetacean

      In reply to yaddamaster:

      The issue with this example is that the consumer never has to choose. The variant they get is set by the PC they buy. The buyer will never know of these variants, nor will people buying Windows 10 off the shelf. The only people who have to deal with the different variants are the OEMs.

      • Schtick

        In reply to SWCetacean:

        I have to disappoint you, but most computers are sold without an operating system and the user must choose. He chooses what him will recommend someone who will install the system. And the majority of users of the system do not buy

      • hrlngrv

        In reply to SWCetacean:

        Do you mean if I want to buy a mini PC with an i5 and 16GB RAM I'll get zero choice of Windows version? Home no longer an option? Pro in S mode the only offering, then needing an additional US$50 payment to MSFT?

        I can understand a clear divide between Home-class and Pro-class PCs. I can even understand needing to pay more for Pro not in S mode, but I suspect we'll get all the clarity of Vista Capable vs Ready because MSFT remains incapable of communicating clearly.

    • skane2600

      In reply to yaddamaster:

      Isn't it true that some Chromebooks can run Android apps and some can't? That sounds like variants to me.

  15. Winner

    Honestly Microsoft is like an immature company in many ways, just fumbling around trying to see what sticks without any strategic coherence.

  16. Bats

    This is all because the Windows ecoystem is so so sooooooooooooo BAD!

    Windows 10 S , the way I see it, is Microsoft's version of Chrome OS. Chrome OS is extremely limited, in terms of using 3rd party tools. However, the strength of Chrome OS is easily accessibility to Google's vast and excellent ecosystem of tools that everybody loves and needs. I have said this a million times.....Chrome Browser, Gmail, Youtube, G-Drive (and Apps), Maps, Google Play....it's all there! In addition to Web Apps that work so well with Chrome that regular, business, and teachers/students all use. Even printing is amazing if you go out an buy a Google Cloud Printer. Chrome OS is just easy to simple to use and best of all.......easy to MAINTAIN!!!

    I can see what Microsoft was trying to do. They were trying to be like Chrome OS. All the bloggers and (fake) journalists can read all the internal MEMOS or MSFT Press Releases and interpret what they want, but I believe this was Microsoft was trying to do. Let's not forget, Windows 10 S was announced during a Microsoft's .EDU event last year. They're intention was to go up against Chrome. They even made strides to have MS Edge be comparable to Chrome Browser. The big difference between the two OS's is that one had a vast ecosystem behind it and promoted Web Apps, and the other had a bad ecosystem and tried to promote UWP.

    This article made me laugh. Sixty percent switched to Windows 10 Pro within 24 hours? LOL. AFter obtaining their Windows 10 S computer they said "OH $#!t " what the heck did I buy? LOL...this stuff is hilarious!

    It's funny, but I know Paul wanted to use Windows 10 S but the ability to download Chrome was a problem for him. That's the one thing I could not understand and I explicitly commented after all his Windows 10 S rants, .....just use 10 Pro and behave that's it Windows 10 S. That's all. LOL...now they have this "S" Mode? Isn't that exactly that? *shakes head*

    • Pbike908

      In reply to Bats:

      There is a HUGE difference between Chrome OS and Windows S. Windows S is a FULL computer operating system -- so long as one doesn't want to run Win 32 apps. Chrome OS is just a browser that can now also run Android apps in a frankenstein mode meaning essentially two different operating environment in a single device.

      For starters, try running Spotify in a Web Browser or the Android App compared to the Windows App. The Windows App has more functionality -- not even close. I've also heard that one can't upload songs to ones Google Play library with a Chromebook nor Android app, but one can with a Windows computer.

      If Microsoft can get more apps in their Windows store, then Windows S will be a major success.

      True, the Edge Browser is lagging compared to Chrome and Firefox, however, it is improving. It would help tremendously if Microsoft can decouple Edge from Windows 10 so that they can updated it more often.

      I will say though that Windows S and Chromebooks aren't going to be that appealing to folks that follow this site or any tech blogs for that matter.

      • seapea

        In reply to Pbike908:

        minus4? really? what was posted in the post that was deserving of being marked as bad?

      • Marius Muntean

        In reply to Pbike908:

        MS won't get more apps in that pathetic store. Their complete disregard over the entire consumer base and their complete ignorance over app developers that target store apps on all platforms was their last mistake. What dev in his right mind would ever lose time and money building apps for a failed store platform that has no mobile??

        It does not matter if MS ever returns to mobile...besides the delusional fanboys, no one else will ever buy into that again:

        And a simple example from the enterprise sector is a company that has invested in windows mobile phones, now only to spend more money replacing them after MS monumental failure, lies and crap talking! It will take way much more for MS to gain trust again and Nadella's leaving would not be enough. One man destroyed their reputation, one man leaving won't fix it.

        As a consumer I no longer use any MS services and products, besides Xbox. Why should I? They kill everything and I cannot rely on anything they say. I don't work with liars.

      • Winner

        In reply to Pbike908:

        Chrome OS has linux under it which is a full OS as well.

        • jimchamplin

          In reply to Winner:

          But would you give a machine running Linux to your mom? People like these simplified systems like Chrome OS and iOS because there’s no complexity. Not everyone considers having nine ways to do one thing to be a benefit.

          • Winner

            In reply to jimchamplin:

            Chrome OS has a Linux core, but is FAR simpler than Windows. My mom has Windows and Microsoft forced her upgrade from Win 8 to 10 and she did not understand what happened to her computer. I had to re-train her how to use it.

            If you think Linux/Chrome OS is bad (not), then would you give Windows to your mom? I did and regretted it.

  17. hrlngrv

    Re S to Pro upgrade stats, what were the distribution channels for non-MSFT hardware with Windows 10 S preinstalled? Could anyone buy them from any retailer? Or were they mostly restricted to education organizations? If the latter, the 40% conversion rate would seem high, but it might be explained by administrators getting new low-end machines with Windows 10 Pro for dirt cheap. I could see many US public school districts doing that.

  18. ncn

    Re the A/V apps situation: maybe they feel an A/V in an S-mode machine doesn't need to be so robust given the restrictions on UWP execution.

  19. MikeFromMarkham

    "I suspect that Microsoft will clarify these changes to us in the near future..."

    Of course they will... And then they'll have to clarify that explanation, and the one after that, etc. etc.... By the time they get it right, no one will care anyway...

  20. Jeffery Commaroto

    The housing market is picking up so they could always pivot and become a different kind of window company.

  21. skane2600

    It doesn't seem all that surprising that the majority of people who bought a PC with a particular OS pre-installed are still using that same OS nine months later. The big story is that 40% didn't which is unprecedented.

    Of course the number of people who ever had Windows 10 S is tiny.

    • hrlngrv

      In reply to skane2600:

      Not only would the number of Windows 10 S buyers to date be small (even including those buying Surface laptops), they would have bought most of those machines through education distribution channels, so the stats wouldn't be representative of the broader population of all PC buyers.

  22. henrystrock77

    Microsoft providing every required things to people from many years.After the launching of window the worlds of computer become easy.Now they also know that the web cams are very important in today's worlds that's why they are going to launch webcams.There are also some PC games which required web cams for playing.From you can on your web cams.

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