Panay Touts “the Next Generation of Windows”

Posted on March 2, 2021 by Paul Thurrott in Windows 10 with 93 Comments

In a very brief appearance during an Ignite 2021 session today, Windows chief Panos Panay finally discussed the future of Windows. Vaguely and in passing.

“I haven’t talked about the next generation of Windows and what’s coming next, but I can tell you I am so pumped,” he said, invoking his favorite catch-phrase. “We’re not talking about that today.”

It’s not clear what Panay was talking about today: The session in which he made this comment, called The heartbeat of modern work: A Windows fireside chat with Panos Panay & Roanne Sones, was less than 15 minutes long. And he didn’t really say much of substance.

“I know that the future of Windows is incredible, what we’re bringing to the table for sure,” he continued. “But ultimately, we’re here today to talk about Windows 10 and what Windows 10 brings to the table, and how we can support our customers and partners here at Ignite.”

I will just throw out this one observation: It is interesting to me that he refers to “the next generation of Windows” when he refers to the future, but he explicitly calls the current version “Windows 10.” This might just be because there is something called Windows 10X coming soon. But it might also suggest that a branding change is coming for what we think of as Windows 10 version 21H2.

We’ll know soon enough.

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Comments (93)

93 responses to “Panay Touts “the Next Generation of Windows””

  1. illuminated

    I would prefer regular version numbers. There is nothing wrong with 11. Unless there still is some windows 1.1 code which could be confused by windows version 11.

    • bkkcanuck

      In reply to illuminated:

      When a version gets to be 10 or more - maybe with that type of longevity it should just be the product name + year + "." rev

      • winner

        In reply to bkkcanuck:

        Oh, every once in a while they need to revamp their naming process. They've resisted changes to Windows 10 for many years, but they do have "Creator's Edition" morphing to "v2004" morphing to "21H2", etc. Always changing things, never any consistency. Like the UI.

    • txag

      In reply to illuminated:

      Every one of the updates from the inception of Windows 10 should have a clear and understandable version number: 10.2 or 10.32 or whatever. The names they give these things are absurd.

      • Paul Thurrott

        Yep. Even more absurd is how Microsoft will refer to each version by *multiple* names. Guys, seriously.
  2. oscar90

    A great worrying deal of BS coming out of Panay with regular intervals.

  3. ghostrider

    I think it's clear - it will either be Win10X (which nobody has asked for), Windows (ChromeBook copycat) or desktop-as-a-service, which is purely a cash grab. Yes, Win10 as we know it won't go anywhere, but it's clear MS will follow the path to maximum revenue, and that means subscriptions.

    He's dropped a hint to kickstart the rumour mill, and the tech press will lap it up.

    • vladimir

      In reply to ghostrider:

      why is desktop as a service a cash grab? There are plenty of enterprises that can't wait to get a reliable cloud desktop service for their employees

      • Paul Thurrott

        I love how every time a company tries to sell something to customers, it's a "cash grab." This is the reason companies exist, to make money.
        • hrlngrv

          In reply to paul-thurrott:

          Certainly businesses should derive revenues from the products they sell. However, businesses which seek to eliminate as much of consumer surplus as possible shouldn't expect to be loved for doing so.

          I'm still using a PC I bought in 2016. It came with Windows 7 Pro, which I upgraded to Windows 10 when that upgrade was free. I haven't paid anything more for continued use of Windows 10. Would it really be rational for me or anyone else to embrace needing to pay for a subscription to use Windows?

          If I could easily buy any PC from the PC maker with no OS preinstalled, so also without any charge for an OS, I'd have no problem whatsoever with MSFT charging whatever it wanted for Windows on whatever payment schedule it wanted because I wouldn't have to buy or use it. However, that's not how the PC market works, is it?

        • navarac

          In reply to paul-thurrott:

          Trying to sell us something really useful is one thing. Ripping folk off with superfluous rubbish that will disappear in a couple of years is another thing. Even you recommended that people don't buy stuff from Microsoft Movies and TV (Windows Weekly 3 Mar 21)!

    • spiderman2

      In reply to ghostrider:

      you're confused...try again

  4. uk user

    Just a simpler OS all round, many of the 'features' are of no use to me whatsoever, yes there arealternatives that I could download that would satisfy my simple preferences, but Window used to be like that. My favourite piece of software, One Note, was great to use in its orginal configurations now there are so many options it is mind numbing. Widows X doesn't sound like it would fill the void but being in my 7th decade and used to loading software from floppy discs it is getting a bit like Star Wars, software is going places man has never been before, I know the feeling.

    • bdollerup

      In reply to UK User:

      Much as I appreciate your opinion, I would suggest that it's important to realize that your most important features may not necessarily be mine or vice versa. Windows serves a very, very broad audience that will likely never be served by the same feature set....

  5. ianbetteridge

    Well Apple has moved from macOS X to macOS 11, so obviously Microsoft has to follow suit ;)

    Seriously though, really looking forward to this - I would love to see more integration of the kinds of machine learning features that Microsoft is bringing to Office 365 into Windows.

  6. innitrichie

    I'm genuinely buzzing to learn what the future of Windows looks like. I'm just disappointed that's not today.

  7. peterc

    Well I think we already know what’s occurring people, don’t we? Windows 10 was/is the last version of windows that is sold as a distributable install product. It will remain a maintained product for legacy users.

    Going forward, all NEW windows (what we’ve seen with win 10X) will only come preloaded on devices and hopefully they may even ditch the name too..... that’s been my understanding for some time.

    Personally I can’t wait - time for some much needed change.

  8. John Craig

    "What I'm here to talk about today is Windows which isn't really what I'm here today to talk about pumped today windows talk about table here today we're going to talk about windows but not here today."

    Got that?

    Jesus H...he spent 15 minutes mouth breathing garbage

  9. will

    Coming soon:

    Windows Series X

    Windows Series S

  10. wright_is

    But, but, but Windows 10 was the last version of Windows... ??


    All I want is for them to stop changing and mutating it. They used to make new versions to make more money, which no longer applies, and so stop mutating the client. Lock Windows down and debug it completely and then call it finished.

    Millions can be saved if they stop adding new bugs every 6 months.

  12. dftf

    To go through some points in RobertJasiek's list of suggestions:

    No advertisement - I never see any in my Windows 10. There are around 4-5 settings you need to turn-off, but once they are off, I never see any within Windows 10, in File Explorer, or on the Lock Screen.

    No crapware - again, not a major issue. Many Android phones come with pre-installed or "pre-suggested" (i.e. it will install the app when you first tap on it) apps you can uninstall or disable. At least with Windows 10, you can actually uninstall all of the ones it pre-suggests. And I've not had any return.

    Local accounts are the default - online synced accounts will make-sense for many home or small-business users. And if you're on a domain, it will default to a local-account-linked-to-an-AD-account model anyway. But even on 20H2 right-now, it's still quite easy to create a local account, either during initial setup, or afterwards.

    All known bugs and security gaps fixed - I'm sure they do fix all "known" bugs they can, but the issue is new ones are constantly being found. But that's true of anything: Linux, macOS, iOS, Android.

    Updates only available when working on all hardware - kind of difficult, given how-many different hardware-devices Windows 10 runs on to ever cover everything (especially given one of your earlier points was "no telemetry". So you don't want Microsoft to receive any information about what hardware is out-there, but still expect them to ensure updates never break anything?)

    Only one Windows version (or at most one per CPU architecture) - people go-on about this a lot, but realistically for the editions there are only a small-number most people will ever encounter: for a Home user, you'll likely only-ever encounter "Home" or "Pro". If you're a small-to-medium sized business, you'll mostly be using "Pro" or, on devices with more-than 2 physical CPUs or up-to 6TB of RAM, maybe "Pro for Workstations". If you're an enterprise, you'll use "Pro", "Pro for Workstations", "Enterprise" or, on devices that rarely connect to the Internet or local-network, the "Enterprise LTSC" edition. Windows 10 sure-is a lot better than the pointless editions of the Windows Vista/7 days like "Starter", "Home Basic", "Home Premium", "Business" (Vista-only), "Enterprise" and "Ultimate". Again, for CPU architecture, any new device the average-person or small-business buys will have "64-bit Windows" (i.e. AMD64 kernel) preinstalled, as Microsoft no-longer allows "32-bit" (Intel32 kernel) preinstalls since Version 2004. You'll only get ARM64 kernel on ARM64 CPU devices. So don't worry about it.

    Combined Settings / Control Panel - hard not to agree here

    All security means equally available for all softwares (x64, x86, apps) - not quite sure what you'd mean here, but I assume things like "Windows Sandbox" only being available on 64-bit versions. That's because it uses the built in Hyper-V environment to operate, which is rather-pointless having on 32-bit systems as many people would want more than 2GB of RAM for a virtual-machine, and the limit is 3GB (inside the 4GB boundary) or 2GB (outside it, via PAE). Neither VirtualBox and VMWare offer installers for 32-bit Windows thesedays -- a 64-bit host OS is required.

    Restrict the rights of software installers so that they cannot compromise the system or other softwares - with the containerised apps in Windows 10X, this is essentially what Microsoft are aiming for, I guess. Or you could install an app via the Microsoft Store, where again, they are all separated. But guess what -- if you give an app admin-rights to do something (on Windows, macOS or via su or sudo on Linux) don't be surprised when they do things that would require admin-rights!

    Provide System Image / Backup instead of phasing it out - I'm with you there. Not everyone has the money or inclination to use cloud-backup, and for many users, plugging a USB disk in and using the "Create System Image" was a really easy-way to ensure everything was backed-up. Plus, you can mount the .VHD file created like a drive to manually copy-over anything you accidentally delete later.

    Add a converter from x64 / x86 to apps so that the generated code is fast enough - not quite sure what you mean here? I'd assume you mean recompiling AMD64 apps on ARM64 devices (similar to what Rosetta 2 does on macOS 11 devices with an M1 CPU)? But for 32-bit apps... is there a point? The AMD64 kernel versions of Windows are going to support 32-bit apps for a l-o-n-g time to come yet. (If anything, recompiling 32-bit drivers to 64-bit would be way more helpful to finally help some users migrate to a 64-bit version of Windows. I bet you vastly-more devices run a 32-bit version of Windows due to there not being a 64-bit driver for a device, than because they are reliant on a 16-bit app...)

    • RobertJasiek

      In reply to dftf:

      Advertisements: I turned off the frequently documented switched and it was good enough for some time but then MS introduced another switch deep in the registry resulting in advertisements annoying me and others at the log-in screen.

      Bugs: Some digging into bugs have reported them for many years and sometimes decades but they are not fixed. MS seems to have some priority list and certain bugs fly low under their radar of urgency.

      Versions: Many Windows versions are part of the problem of perception about Windows. MS cannot hope to win back many users who left because of unnecessary complexity.

      Security means: Windows has introduced new means for sandboxing apps but those security means are not readily available in the GUI or command line for application to x64 or x86 softwares. I would want to sandbox every software but I cannot because the means are inaccessible and undocumented for users.

      Installers: MS moves in the right direction but 10 times too slowly.

      Converter: I am no expert on that but suppose that it must be possible to write a compiler from machine code of desktop software to machine code of apps so that software developers need not try to solve the issue on the levels of typical programming languages and APIs. Maybe I am too optimistic and there could be some computational complexity that cannot be overcome. So far, I don't see that kind of problem.

      • dftf

        In reply to RobertJasiek:

        Versions: Many Windows versions are part of the problem of perception about Windows. MS cannot hope to win back many users who left because of unnecessary complexity.

        I think IT pros and geeks, like the people who comes to this site, care about this, but most regular people don't -- they go to a shop, or an online store, and they buy a laptop or desktop that has Windows on it, and they're likely not even aware there are different versions. It's just Windows.

        Can you even think of any app that would say "Error: this app requires Windows 10 Pro or higher, and cannot be installed on Windows 10 Home"? I can't (outside of perhaps very-specific apps aimed at enterprise customers). Possibly they might have a 32-bit install of Windows 10, and try to run a 64-bit app and get an error. But as OEMs can no-longer pre-install 32-bit Windows, this will also soon be a non-issue.

        I don't think this impacts the general-public as much as it may irritate IT pros, sorry

      • dftf

        In reply to RobertJasiek:

        To stop any adverts, adjust these settings:

        Start > Settings > Notifications. Un-tick all of these:

        • Show me the Windows welcome experience after updates [...]

        • Suggest ways I can finish setting up my device to get the most out of Windows

        • Get tips, tricks and suggestions as you use Windows

        Start > Settings > Personalisation > Lock Screen

        Change the "background" dropdown to "Picture", then untick "Get fun facts, tips and more from Cortana and Windows on your lock screen"

        Start > Settings > Personalisation > Start

        Un-tick Show suggestions occasionally on Start

        Start > Windows System > File Explorer > File > "Change folder and search options" > View tab

        In the Advanced settings list, locate and untick Show sync provider notifications

        The only pop-ups you should then ever get will be notifications from built-in Windows apps you use, such as Mail or News, or things like Windows Update

        • RobertJasiek

          In reply to dftf:

          Advertisements in settings: deactivating all is not enough. You are lucky if it is enough for you but other users may be affected.

          • dftf

            In reply to RobertJasiek:

            Try doing all the settings I suggested, and let me know what adverts you are still seeing afterwards... I see none, so you should also if you change the same ones

            • RobertJasiek

              In reply to dftf:

              I have used these (and more) settings for a long time. They worked until ca. 9 months ago. Since then, advertisements have reappeared at each user's log-in screen, which has one colour. Blue advertisements of the kind "New to Windows? Do this! - Explore One Drive! - Benefit from Microsoft Accounts!" (German texts for my German WIndows GUI; I forgot the exact texts.) In the lower left corner of the ad window, I have to click "Not now". Every couple of weeks, such an advertisement appears; one for each user account. Absolutely dull.

              First, nobody knew how to deactivate these advertisements. 6 months later, more and more reports about them appeared but counter-measures are hard to find. After much web search, I have found this advice:


              ScoobeSystemSettingEnabled 0 DWORDWert (32-Bit)

              So far, I have been too busy to create UserProfileEngagement and the key for each user but I will try it some time and then wait several weeks whether then advertisements do not reappear.

              • dftf

                In reply to RobertJasiek:

                Odd, I get no-such adverts on my login screens, nor do any members of my family.

                So either this is a country-specific thing ("German GUI" would suggest perhaps you're based in Germany) or maybe you're running a different version of Windows, like an Insider ring? (My device is running Windows 10 Home, Version 20H2, Build: 19042.804)

                If the adverts are only on the log-in screen, are you definitely sure you've done this:

                • Start > Settings > Personalisation > Lock screen

                • Change "Background" dropdown from "Windows Spotlight" to "Picture"

                • Then turn "Get fun facts, tips and more from Windows and Cortana on your lock screen" to Off

                On my Lock Screen, all I see is the wallpaper I have chosen, and the date and time, and the small icons in the bottom-right corner for Wi-Fi and battery status

    • ruivo

      In reply to dftf:

      You make very good points all around, but I have to disagree on local accounts, at least on being easy to create them. You have to remember to not connect to wifi in order for it to even appear.

      I admit I don't actually use local accounts for long, I use it to get around Windows truncating my name in the internal user name (it changes "busson" to "busso" for no good reason, and my name, that is already weird in my native language, starts to look like an expletive!). But for people that have a actually want a local account, having the option unavailable like that is a little bit infuriating...

      Just last week I forgot to not connect to WiFi in a fresh install, and had to set up a different account, but it was a family account, and it kept saying that my user was already in the PC. Took me 10 minutes to install Windows and 30 to sort the mess :-)

  13. saint4eva

    Panos unleashes the next generation Windows.

  14. red.radar

    I don’t think Microsoft can pull this off without developers throwing the towel in and just moving to open source toolkits.

    • hrlngrv

      In reply to red.radar:

      As a daily user of RStudio and Okular [hooray! now a version in the MSFT Store, so now I have one viewer for PDF, XPS (from back in the day when my work machine could print to XPS but not PDF), CHM, DVI (for the odd academic preprint), PS, and a few other exotica], I rely on software using Qt. Nothing at all wrong with it. FWIW, it also seems a lot easier to use for Windows software than Gtk.

      IOW, maybe we'd all be better off if 3rd party developers did adopt cross-platform O/S GUI toolkits.

      ADDED: I just came across Basic for Qt, so I know how I'm spending part of the weekend.

  15. brettscoast

    Much ado about nothing it seems. It's about time Panos started to lay out a timeline about the next major version of windows whether it be windows 20 or whatever, and any positive news about windows x is long past due.

  16. SenorGravy

    Sometimes Microsoft is exhausting. Windows is the past. Windows is the future. It's not our focus. It's absolutely our focus. Pick a direction already.

  17. glenn8878

    Window 11 is never too late.

  18. anoldamigauser

    All I can say is that if they add those freaking reactions to Windows, that is the day I buy a Mac and never look back.

  19. solomonrex

    They need to get back to support the basic needs of users. Supply basic built-in apps that competitors currently do, built for the times. No, maybe we don't need twitter clients built-in, but media, ebooks, gaming, video calling? In every category for consumers and business, they have flailed for the last decade. Even Office, arguably. Skype, Zune, Office, Reader, Media Center. Remember those? They should have evolved, not been replaced and then the replacements abandoned. Every step forward, they slip back and abandon users in the process. Maybe Windows 8's apps weren't great, but then don't give up. The first Kindle was crap, so was the first MacBook Air.

    And I would probably include Surface Hardware in their backsliding, without the brick&mortar stores and so much of their lineup being static.

    Take a look at what Steam does. What kindle/Calibre do. What Itunes/Spotify does. What Samsung/Apple do with inking. Apple and Google demonstrate that persistence pays off. The largest software company in the world should be able to fill users' basic needs again.

    • veermaharaj

      In reply to solomonrex:I could not have said it better myself. Imagine the only competent media player in windows is windows media player 12 from windows 7 because Microsoft is afraid of the number 13 and groove is an abandoned Spotify clone. Movies and TV don't even have built in hevc codecs. And my God I miss windows live essentials and windows live mesh!!!!!

  20. vladimir

    It may be because I am not a native english speaker, but is it only me that can't stand the expression "I am pumped"?

  21. jolla

    what isn't he pumped about?

    • nbplopes

      In reply to jolla:

      I really liked him in the first talks. Than I used its creations and stopped believing the vision and entertained my self for a while actually finding holes in his speech’s ... eventually got bored ... and turned irrelevant to my decision process.

      Would prefer less words and more product in practice.

      Having said this, I think he managed successfully to give MS a sense of direction in the devices group. It was a mix chaos and panic back than, my impression. MS likes words ... so here is my Panos imitation:

      Power Automate Desktop App ... a creative surface were one can automate digital life at the edge, with a mouse, keyboard, fingers, pen or toes, together or independently, wherever you are, with whom ever you are, its social, its robotic, its intelligent, its free ... claps claps claps ... I’m pumped.

      • ngc224

        In reply to nbplopes:

        Exactly. Panos, stop talking so much and start delivering.

        More Productive, Flow, Pumped, blah, blah, blah.

        In fact, I think I’m starting to hate Panos (I know, a little strong). Sorry, but that picture at the top of the article triggered me.

    • Paul Thurrott

      Talking about the next Windows, apparently.
    • ianbetteridge

      In reply to jolla:

      Pumped is just Panos' natural state - it's when he gets super-pumped that you know things are about to happen.

      • Paul Thurrott

        He says it about things that are not very interesting, so it's kind of worn thin at this point.
    • a_lurker

      In reply to jolla: In reality, probably nothing. Just marketing speak for the next round will be trash.

  22. djross95

    Seriously, if you're not going to say anything of substance, don't bother. This is embarrassing.

    • Paul Thurrott

      In another example of how this was classic Microsoft, you can imagine the debate: Look, if we don't say anything about Windows, we're going to get criticized again. Panos: I have nothing to say yet. Satya: Then do 15 minutes and toss out a reference. We need this. Panos: Sigh. Us: OH COME ON
  23. dcdevito

    Let’s be real - what can they possibly do to Windows to make it interesting in 2021? And I’m talking about ALL desktop operating systems, not just Windows. Legacy platforms can only go so far.

    • codymesh

      In reply to dcdevito:

      rebootless windows updates would be pretty interesting to some I bet

    • nbplopes

      In reply to dcdevito:

      Maybe start running like its 2021?

    • hrlngrv

      In reply to dcdevito:

      Semantics of legacy. Are any OSes legacy? Or all OSes legacy?

      More to the point, does any rational person just use the OS, spending all their computing time renaming, copying/moving, or deleting files and changing settings? Or is the OS as interesting to computer users as the brand of air filter to automobile drivers?

      • Paul Thurrott

        There's no real legacy on mobile. But on desktop platforms, it seems like so-called legacy apps are either all there is (from a native standpoint) or the only important app platform there.
    • longhorn

      In reply to dcdevito:

      So in what way is macOS legacy? It is still being maintained, still being improved. It shares a lot of underlying tech with iOS, albeit slightly less locked down. Same legacy kernel as iOS.

      I could say the same about a Linux desktop using Wayland display protocol. What is legacy? Maybe same legacy kernel as Android?

      And if Windows is legacy then Xbox is per definition legacy since it shares all the Win32 stuff. Windows Phone/Mobile ran the same legacy NT kernel as its big brother.

      Nothing personal, I just wonder what do people mean when they write "legacy" - do they know themselves? In software it normally means something isn't developed anymore.

      • dcdevito

        In reply to longhorn:

        None taken. But MacOS nor Windows are at the forefront of revenue generation from Apple or Microsoft.

        Apple is clearly a hardware company that is mostly interested in selling devices running iOS, Microsoft has diversified and has clearly pivoted to the Cloud.

      • murray judy

        In reply to longhorn:

        I just wonder what do people mean when they write "legacy"

        No kidding. I've seen a lot of new employees use it to describe any software that existed before they arrived.

    • Adlton

      In reply to dcdevito:

      They can try to fix UX inconsistencies and having 8 layers of legacy UI. Improve applications that are shipped with OS and I’m sure there are always thing under the hood that could use some love.

    • ngc224

      In reply to dcdevito:

      Maybe just rename “Windows 10X” to Edge OS?

  24. hrlngrv

    So Windows 10 isn't the final version of Windows. No great surprise no matter what MSFT stated on the record between 2014 and yesterday.

    Fearless prediction: whatever new may be in the Next Windows, there'll still be a few Control Panel dialogs which date from at least NT4. It may just be me, but I haven't noticed ANYTHING which has changed in Windows with respect to dial-up networking since the late 1990s.

    That said, purely on aethetic grounds, I much prefer the Control Panel dialogs for date-time settings and regional settings than their crude counterparts in Settings.

    • mikegalos

      In reply to hrlngrv:

      Speaking of "It may just be me" items, does anybody still use dial-up networking? That strikes me as a "legacy backward compatibility" feature that's getting maintenance support because telemetry shows it still has some users but likely no new features.

      • Paul Thurrott

        Microsoft needs to learn that it does not have to satisfy every single need of every single user. That's exactly why Windows is such a mess. Microsoft can't say no.
        • hrlngrv

          In reply to paul-thurrott:

          it does not have to satisfy every single need of every single user

          It does if it wants to maintain desktop PC user share over 80%.

          The smarter approach may well be to create components similar to DOSBox which would provide a contained environment for LOTS of stuff rather than separate containers for every individual application.

          If half of non-urban Asia, Africa and Latin America depend on dial-up networking (complete guess), that's a rather large share of the world population not to serve by dropping dial-up networking from Windows. What would happen to Windows if suddenly 1/4 of the world's population had no options other than older, past EOS versions of Windows or Linux?

          Perhaps striving to maintain a network monopoly (and even if MSFT isn't engaging in anticompetitive behavior, that's what Windows is) has the severe downside of requiring precisely that the network monopoly support as many users/use cases as possible.

          Occam's razor: MSFT isn't filled with stupid employees, so if MSFT does X, odds are that X maximizes MSFT's profits. That may piss off pundits and fans who lack fiduciary accountability to MSFT shareholders, so they wish for things which aren't as profitable.

          I don't like the current state of Windows, but I can see how it's a rational product of MSFT management caring more about profit than user satisfaction. After all, what are dissatisfied users going to do? Switch to Linux? I have, at least at home, but have you?

        • ruivo

          In reply to paul-thurrott:

          They could just dump all the legacy stuff into modules that you can download as needed. The PC lets me know when it needs to download one of the many .net versions, why not do the same with, say, dial up capabilities?

        • nbplopes

          In reply to paul-thurrott:

          Frankstein software design. But it pays of. Not for me, but for Microsoft.

      • hrlngrv

        In reply to MikeGalos:

        Depends on the part of the world. It was the 1st thing I could have think of which I was certain hadn't changed much.

  25. Nick Tsiotinos

    Heh, I think you are reading too much into this. Developers always say that the next version is going to be "awesome" and that they are "pumped" to bring it to the table - yaddah yaddah. It is Marketing 101....

  26. linear2202

    Take out the "suggestions", the adds and quit nagging me to rate stuff. Don't add stuff to my install that I don't need. That's the first step.

    Add some productivity features. Tabs to Explorer would be a handy, useful feature.

    Neither will probably happen.

  27. RobertJasiek

    I do not know Panay's vision of Windows but mine is:

    • No telemetry.
    • No advertisement.
    • No crapware.
    • Local accounts are the default.
    • All known bugs and security gaps fixed.
    • Proper testing.
    • Updates without reboots.
    • Updates without any changes of user settings (incl. registry and group policies) without user consent.
    • Updates only available when working on all hardware.
    • Only one Windows version (or at most one per CPU architecture).
    • Combined settings / system panel.
    • All security means equally available for all softwares (x64, x86, apps).
    • All security means also available in command line.
    • Restrict the rights of software installers so that they cannot compromise the system or other softwares. Provide necessary exceptions for drivers or system tools on the principles of minimally necessary granted rights and after their user consent.
    • Provide system image / backup instead of phasing it out.
    • After all of the above is given, add GUI modes "simple" (like 10X, ChromeOS, iPadOS) and "configurable" (like Windows 10 Pro etc.), where mode means "one-click switch in either direction at any time".
    • After all of the above is given, add a converter from x64 / x86 to apps so that the generated code is fast enough.
    • scovious

      In reply to RobertJasiek:

      I wonder what phone you use...

      • RobertJasiek

        In reply to scovious:

        A basic WLAN phone for a landline phone connection. Email is my main communication so I can live without smartphone. For second factor authentification, SMS to voice or TAN on call have worked so far.

        Nevertheless, I would have other uses for a smartphone but iOS and Android do not meet my specifications. Linux smartphones are not good enough yet but typically come with a 2:1 ratio (useless for me) and are expensive for what they offer.

    • ianbetteridge

      In reply to RobertJasiek:

      I think you have hit the problem that Windows faces on the head. All the things you highly are entirely valid desires for you -- but for other users (in some cases big groups of users) some of them would be hindrance more than a help. And if Microsoft is going to move things forward, at some point it has to bite the bullet and start removing features to simplify the system and make it more reliable. Windows has both a huge amount of technical debt built in because it's trying to support too much, and a huge amount of feature bloat because it tries to give every single one of the billion users on the planet all the things they want.

      Hardcore techie who lives in the command line? Yep, Windows is for you. IT manager who cares about controlling what users can do? Windows is your baby. Home user who just want to do what they need to do quickly and easily? Windows has you covered!

      Windows is stuck between a rock and a hard place. To move forward, it needs to trying to support every community equally.

    • Daishi

      In reply to RobertJasiek:

      Well that’s a bats#!t crazy list

    • csteinblock

      In reply to RobertJasiek:

      That is an awesome list. Logical and reasonable expectations for an operating system. Thank you.

    • hrlngrv

      In reply to RobertJasiek:

      Certain parts of Windows can't be updated without rebooting.

      • winner

        In reply to hrlngrv:

        They ought to rearchitect the OS to reduce or eliminate the need for reboots. Linux does much better on this than Windows.

        • hrlngrv

          In reply to Winner:

          Linux does much better on this than Windows.

          Maybe. I maintain Windows 8.x and 10 Insider Build VMs at home. They usually update without rebooting, but some updates do require rebooting.

          Linux also requires rebooting for new kernels.

          Still, I believe the Chrome OS approach is most robust while incurring some redundancy. Downloading new kernel or rootfs partition images in the background when one's internet connection is effectively idle to otherwise inactive partitions is about as painless as possible. The final step in the upgrade involves rebooting because the final run level before rebooting changes which kernel and rootfs partitions would be mounted after the reboot begins. Not safe to try unmounting / then remounting it without rebooting.

  28. crunchyfrog

    Perhaps they'll change it to, "Windows 11" to keep up with Apple.

  29. winner

    So if you combine Microsoft's own statements, the "next generation of Windows" is the "Last Version of Windows" which is Windows 10....

    • Paul Thurrott

      Things change, for starters. I would also not take anything that anyone marketing something says literally.
      • winner

        In reply to paul-thurrott:

        Oh I know, I'm just pointing out how even when they said Windows 10 was the "last version of Windows" years ago, I knew it was going to be B.S.!

        • Paul Thurrott

          Really, it's just a branding thing. By my count, there have been over 10 new Windows versions since the first release of Windows 10.
          • hrlngrv

            In reply to paul-thurrott:

            Semantics: versions.

            Major or minor? From my perspective, Windows 3.0 to Windows 3.1 and Windows 98 to Windows 98SE were as substantial as 98SE to ME or NT4 to 2K. Granted 20H2 is substantially different than what rolled out officially on 29 Jul 2015, but were the 2 versions in 2018 substantially different?

            • dftf

              In reply to hrlngrv:

              If you were to talk in-terms-of evolution of both UI and core-features, I'd probably go with:

              Gen 1: MS-DOS (all versions); Windows 1.x; Windows 2.x

              Gen 2: Windows 3.x

              Gen 3: Windows NT 3.x/NT 4.x; Windows 95/98/98SE/Me

              Gen 4: Windows 2000, XP (especially XP pre-SP2)

              Gen 5: Windows Vista, 7

              Gen 6: Windows 8.x, 10

              It's hard to say which versions of Windows 10 might be so-major they break with the past, but at-least by regularly having things like "2004", "20H2", "21H1" and so-on it at-least makes installing Windows 10 way-simpler. Media Creation Tool, create a USB install or a DVD, and post-install you've only got about 6 updates to manually install to bring it up-to the current month.

              Way-better than how with Windows 7, after SP1 there were virtually never any updated ISO images, and you'd have to let Windows Update get slower-and-slower the more it's installed (due to long-standing issues around not releasing resources as it goes-along; same in Vista).

              • hrlngrv

                In reply to dftf:

                Windows 3.0 was so buggy it really can't be grouped with Windows 3.1, which was so solid that it began the extinction of DesqView, VM/386 and other multitasking alternatives. Windows 95 which finally ended the oppression of 8-dot-3 filenames finished exterminating the competition . . . until Linux came along.

                In UI terms, NT3.x was akin to Windows 3.1 and later. Windows 95 and 98 paired with NT4. Windows 98SE and ME with 2K. That said, in terms of security, there were consumer and business categories, 3.x, 95, 98, 98SE, and ME in consumer, NT3.x, NT4, 2K in the latter.

                I used Windows 1 and 2. 1 had only tiled windows, only had bundled GUI software, and was little more than proof-of-concept. Windows 2 had exactly one GUI application which could run under it: Excel 2. I was one of the odd people using a mouse and running Excel in the 1980s on PCs. I wouldn't consider them, 3.0 or any version of MS-DOS in relation to later versions of Windows.

                In a sense Windows didn't become a proper OS until Windows 95.

  30. jimchamplin

    Make the visual update the Windows 98 to Windows 10's Windows 95?

    Update all the icons but keep them similar, add the nice gradient to the titlebar. I'd love to have that Windows 98 2-color gradient in Windows 10 titlebars. That was one of the best looking parts of Windows 98.

  31. crunchyfrog

    I would be pumped if they would stop messing with Windows. We just need an OS to run applications on and nothing more. A simple core OS that runs great and then we can install the crapware ourselves. NO MORE CANDYCRUSH SAGA on first boot!